Chan v. Hanyu: 2015-16

[Li'Kitsu]

Not to mention in all 3 clashes with Shoma Uno this year, Shoma has had the upper hand. It's not just Yuzu he's up against.
Yes, we can still say the Patrick has better components than Shoma but what is actually put out on the ice when it's competition time? Shoma 3 -Patrick 0

I maybe shouldn't say this, because it might turn Shoma into another target for nastier discussions, but I wouldn't be surprised if his PCS keep rising fast. Seeng him live completely changed my mind about him. He has such a big presense on the ice, is magnetic to watch and engaging the audience. I'm not sure if re-watching will change my mind, but after the live event, I might have had Shoma above Patrick in the LP too (what would have been the case anyway without the Lze). Yes, Patrick has better SS, but Shomas are really good, and for me he outperformed Patrick at this event.

And then there is also Boyang, who tied Patrick here, and obviously Javi and Denis. We'll see how Patrick handles the rest of the season, but for now, he's there rival, not Yuzuru's.

 

[Ophelia]

where did you hear he doesn't like competing? I heard the opposite... he has said he likes the energy around the competitions. He likes the preparation. He loves skating that is why he is back... I mean, Katarina Witt came back and she had NO jumps... and wasn't even a contender... but she wanted to be at the Olympics... and I am sure her fans were thrilled to see her programs.

Chan has repeatedly said competing is his least favorite part of skating. He likes the regularity of training for competitions, but that's separate from the actual competing itself.

 

[4everchan]

his least favourite part, perhaps ... but if he didn't like it at all, he wouldn't bother doing it. he said he wanted to enjoy himself at competitions rather than being stressed out like at sochi.... he is clearly not there yet but that's part of the process and his goal. he said at the beginning of the season that he was missing the energy around the competitions.... so there.... the thing is that many people say many things at different times and what can be true today, may be different tomorrow....

Chan has repeatedly said competing is his least favorite part of skating. He likes the regularity of training for competitions, but that's separate from the actual competing itself.

 

[tsuyoboogie]

where did you hear he doesn't like competing? I heard the opposite... he has said he likes the energy around the competitions. He likes the preparation. He loves skating that is why he is back... I mean, Katarina Witt came back and she had NO jumps... and wasn't even a contender... but she wanted to be at the Olympics... and I am sure her fans were thrilled to see her programs.

That's how I feel about Patrick, yet, he is getting better and better as the year goes and who knows what will happen in 2018.... life changes so fast... nobody can tell for sure how things will evolve. Some athletes, Chan knows very well about that, peaked before the games and let the pressure mess up with them.... it happens, sickness happens too.... other people may surface or resurface... some wunderkid may have all quads by then... Who KNOWS? I get edgy when I hear things like "he is done... " Keep in mind that he could also get a gold medal in a team event in 2018... maybe that's also something on his mind, because really, Yuzu cannot get that one... so there are lots of things in motion

Well, that's quite dismissive of Team Japan. Your own words were "who knows what will happen in 2018.... life changes so fast... nobody can tell for sure how things will evolve." Patrick shouldn't be underestimated/counted out but neither should anyone else be.

 

[Marin]

https://twitter.com/Pchiddy
You better update your twitter profile Patty, I see record holder here, and then try to jump 2 axels, or get a second quad toe again.
The first difference of 1000 that Makes Yuzuru THE REAL CHAMPION is that he blames only himself if something goes wrong, not whole world.

about maxing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnBY...ature=youtu.be
Have you seen quad loop Patrick? triple flip will be fired next season from Yuzu's LP.
Ohhh yes, more likely combo will be moved in second half for Boston. Honestly this thread should be closed . "Hanyu from now is competing with Ghost of himself" -Kurt said not me.

I cheered so much, wanted him to redeem after SP, but he made me REGRET again, Chan, Chan your skating is just too good for your mouth

 

[Rissa]

I maybe shouldn't say this, because it might turn Shoma into another target for nastier discussions, but I wouldn't be surprised if his PCS keep rising fast. Seeng him live completely changed my mind about him. He has such a big presense on the ice, is magnetic to watch and engaging the audience. I'm not sure if re-watching will change my mind, but after the live event, I might have had Shoma above Patrick in the LP too (what would have been the case anyway without the Lze). Yes, Patrick has better SS, but Shomas are really good, and for me he outperformed Patrick at this event.

And then there is also Boyang, who tied Patrick here, and obviously Javi and Denis. We'll see how Patrick handles the rest of the season, but for now, he's there rival, not Yuzuru's.

Confirmed. I was a Shoma fan before mostly because if his SP but he completely wowed the Barcelona crowd with his LP, the reaction to his performance was complete and wild joy, up there with reaction to Javi and Hanyu, but more significant because unexpected. There is no way judges will remind blind to that. As long as Shoma's performances remain relatively clean, he'll be joining the 90s PCS crowd soon, perhaps as soon as Worlds. Patrick will need those 2 quads and clean SPs.

 

[Mathman]

I don't see what is so terrible about Patrick's outlook. Yuzuru showed that he is capable of scoring 120 points in TES this season. Patrick says that he (Patrick) can improve his tech and try to narrow the gap. What else can he say?

 

[Khoai]

Confirmed. I was a Shoma fan before mostly because if his SP but he completely wowed the Barcelona crowd with his LP, the reaction to his performance was complete and wild joy, up there with reaction to Javi and Hanyu, but more significant because unexpected. There is no way judges will remind blind to that. As long as Shoma's performances remain relatively clean, he'll be joining the 90s PCS crowd soon, perhaps as soon as Worlds. Patrick will need those 2 quads and clean SPs.

Mr. Chan if he does well both of his programs he will get better PCS and GOE due to his reputation, quality and better SS I think. Mr. Uno uses too many crossovers. I count 40 in the LP. I don't like skaters who use too many crossovers. However it is just my opinion. To be honest Mr. Chan is quite inconsistent in my book. So if Mr. Chan does not get himself together, he might lose to all of these skaters: clean Fernandez, Uno and Ten, and even a clean Boyang can be a threat.

Mr. Hanyu when he is clean, or just has one or two scratchy landings, seems to be out of reach to all because the GOE and PCS he can get.

 

[Rissa]

Mr. Chan if he does well both of his programs he will get better PCS and GOE due to his reputation, quality and better SS I think. Mr. Uno uses too many crossovers. I count 40 in the LP. I don't like skaters who use too many crossovers. However it is just my opinion. To be honest Mr. Chan is quite inconsistent in my book. So if Mr. Chan does not get himself together, he might lose to all of these skaters: clean Fernandez, Uno and Ten, and even a clean Boyang can be a threat.

Mr. Hanyu when he is clean, or just has one or two scratchy landings, seems to be out of reach to all because the GOE and PCS he can get.

Skating skills is but one of the categories marked, and as GPF showed, judges can be swayed in marking by other aspects. C'mon, Hanyu got higher SS marks than Patrick. Unless judges think that pulling off a clean program stuffed with 3 quads, 2 3As and loads of choreographic details and still being able to perform in itself means Hanyu has superior SS, they were swayed by Hanyu's magnificent skate. Shoma's crossovers were completely overshadowed by his expression. ( Like they say about Plushenko: sometimes crossovers count as transitions!) Some skaters are undermarked in SS because of subpar performances (Kozuka) and some are overmarked because of performance skills (Javi). So true, Patrick will pull 96 PCS with good performance, but next season Shoma will be getting 93 if he creates the same magic as in Barcelona and then it will truly come down to who was better on the tech on a given day. Together with Denis, Shoma actually might be Patrick's greatest direct rival for a podium place at Worlds.

 

[Khoai]

Skating skills is but one of the categories marked, and as GPF showed, judges can be swayed in marking by other aspects. C'mon, Hanyu got higher SS marks than Patrick. Unless judges think that pulling off a clean program stuffed with 3 quads, 2 3As and loads of choreographic details and still being able to perform in itself means Hanyu has superior SS, they were swayed by Hanyu's magnificent skate. Shoma's crossovers were completely overshadowed by his expression. ( Like they say about Plushenko: sometimes crossovers count as transitions!) Some skaters are undermarked in SS because of subpar performances (Kozuka) and some are overmarked because of performance skills (Javi). So true, Patrick will pull 96 PCS with good performance, but next season Shoma will be getting 93 if he creates the same magic as in Barcelona and then it will truly come down to who was better on the tech on a given day. Together with Denis, Shoma actually might be Patrick's greatest direct rival for a podium place at Worlds.

As I have mentioned the "reputation" along with SS and quality. Mr. Chan has bigger jumps with better flow and better technique. He does not jump many, his layout maybe lesser for now but his reputation and great quality will be enough for him to get much better PCS and GOE to place even above Mr Fernandez at Boston if he were very clean in both programs.
And Mr. Fernandez's SS is not as bad as people often make it out to be. He is quite good I think.

 

[4everchan]

ermmmm... it's the reality... team japan is so strong in men and women.... and those disciplines yes, can change quickly but in dance and pairs, it takes a long time to build teams.... and i don't think unfortunately that it will happen for japan in 3 years time...my own words apply for realistic things not for oh yeah, someone will win the lottery tomorrow...

Well, that's quite dismissive of Team Japan. Your own words were "who knows what will happen in 2018.... life changes so fast... nobody can tell for sure how things will evolve." Patrick shouldn't be underestimated/counted out but neither should anyone else be.

 

[blueberryhill]

ermmmm... it's the reality... team japan is so strong in men and women.... and those disciplines yes, can change quickly but in dance and pairs, it takes a long time to build teams.... and i don't think unfortunately that it will happen for japan in 3 years time...my own words apply for realistic things not for oh yeah, someone will win the lottery tomorrow...

Or maybe Team Japan can pull off a Blades of Glory scenario. Hey, gods can do anything!

 

[blueberryhill]

https://twitter.com/Pchiddy
You better update your twitter profile Patty, I see record holder here, and then try to jump 2 axels, or get a second quad toe again.
The first difference of 1000 that Makes Yuzuru THE REAL CHAMPION is that he blames only himself if something goes wrong, not whole world.

about maxing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnBY...ature=youtu.be
Have you seen quad loop Patrick? triple flip will be fired next season from Yuzu's LP.
Ohhh yes, more likely combo will be moved in second half for Boston. Honestly this thread should be closed . "Hanyu from now is competing with Ghost of himself" -Kurt said not me.

I cheered so much, wanted him to redeem after SP, but he made me REGRET again, Chan, Chan your skating is just too good for your mouth

"This video does not exist." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnBY...ature=youtu.be[/url][/B] That is also a euphemism of my opinion of your post.

 

[Interspectator]

"This video does not exist." That is also a euphemism of my opinion of your post.

https://www.instagram.com/p/_PA6njq4jE/?taken-by=sota0110

 

[chuckm]

Canada is unlikely to win the gold medal in the team event.

LADIES. The current crop of ladies cannot compete with the Russian and Japanese ladies and while there are no promising younger Canadian ladies coming up, there are plenty of both Russian and Japanese prodigies in the wings eager to move up and romp.

MEN. Chan is the best Canadian man, but he will be 27 in 2018 and it remains to be seen if he will be able to expand his repertoire enough to be competitive with Hanyu,who will be 22 for the Olympics, and Uno,who will be 20. Nam will be 19 and has the jumps, altbeit small, but he lacks charisma. Then there's Jing, who could improve his presentation with the proper coaching.

PAIRS. Duhamel/Radford are not invincible after all, which was proved in the GPF this year, and they will be 30 and 31 in the Olympics. They will be challenged by the two young Chinese teams Yu/Jin and Sui/Han as well as Stolbova/Klimov.

DANCE. Right now, Weaver / Poje are riding high as the GPF champions. But as we all know, rankings in ice dance can change rapidly when no one team has been dominant for years, which has been the status quo since V/M and D/W left after the last Olympics. W/P won the GPF last year but lost the World Championship to Papadakis/Cizerone, and World silver to Chock/Bates.

IMO, Canada looks pretty good for silver again, but gold is very unlikely.

 

[Marin]

https://www.instagram.com/p/_PA6njq4jE/?taken-by=sota0110

:-D :-D There are tons of videos from different years Hanyu doing quadloops on different exs, but oh well its" nothing special" men bring nothing new, some people an their fans refuse to see the reality in front of their eyes...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Confirmed. I was a Shoma fan before mostly because if his SP but he completely wowed the Barcelona crowd with his LP, the reaction to his performance was complete and wild joy, up there with reaction to Javi and Hanyu, but more significant because unexpected. There is no way judges will remind blind to that. As long as Shoma's performances remain relatively clean, he'll be joining the 90s PCS crowd soon, perhaps as soon as Worlds. Patrick will need those 2 quads and clean SPs.

IMO, Uno had the best jump quality of the GPF FS (yes, moreso than even Yuzu - who I thought actually had nicer jumps in his NHK FS even if his GOE was a bit higher here).

The flow Uno gets on his landings is just to die for.

 

[Mathman]

...Unless judges think that pulling off a clean program stuffed with 3 quads, 2 3As and loads of choreographic details and still being able to perform in itself means Hanyu has superior SS,…

Actually, I don't know what the judges think but he's got my vote. I don't think that a skater with weak or average skating skills could possibly do all that.

 

[HanDomi]

Because Hanyu has superior SS. I'm still surprised some people say he doesn't have. Chan have the best edges, but edges are not the only bullet in skating skills, and Hanyu edges are great too

 

[gsyzf]

Unless judges think that pulling off a clean program stuffed with 3 quads, 2 3As and loads of choreographic details and still being able to perform in itself means Hanyu has superior SS.

A skater with inferior SS can't execute such difficult programs with top quality. I also don't see how a skater executing a much easier program shows superior skills. I'm really puzzled why fans think by default that Patrick's SS is better when he skates to a much lesser layout with easier transitions than someone (Yuzuru) who skates a much more difficult program that has much harder transitions, executed with top quality. What justifies Patrick having better SS? Skaters need to show their skills through both difficulty and quality. What more should Yuzuru do to convince fans that he has better skills when he already executed the most difficult programs in the history of figure skating with top quality?