2016 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP

[andromache]

The Russian skaters only get state funding if they place high and produce results otherwise their on their own just like American skaters are. Nikita Katsalapov had to use his own Olympic winnings to train with Zueva in the US when he switched partners. Now that they are producing some results chances of them receiving state funding go up but it wasn't handed to them from the start, they had to earn it.

And being state funding doesn't mean results otherwise Russia would have a much longer history in ladies then it does. Russian girls are not winning medals because of money from their government. Their winning because they got the goods PLUS mental strength. Gracie probably has more talent then all the Russian girls yet can't produce results because she doesn't have the mental strength. State funding isn't suddenly going to win Gracie world medals or give her the mental strength she so desperately needs.

I'm not referring to specific skaters like Gracie, I'm referring to the depths of the two programs as a whole.

Russian girls are not winning due to money from the government, I agree, and I did not say otherwise in my post. Russia does, however, have a much larger pool of overall talent than the US due to the differences between the two countries.

 

[R.D.]

I get the feeling that those assuming Edmunds has the title in the bag may be in for a surprise tomorrow...

7.6 points, while a lot, isn't really insurmountable especially when you analyze each skater's FS.

 

[lavender]

I think people like Polina but they just want Polina to have great programs. If she does I would root for her to win. I’m pretty neutral when it comes to U.S. ladies skaters. Haven’t been a diehard fan since Michelle.

 

[mustafakent]

You shouldn't forget that Polina is still only 17. People tend to forget that, I don't know why. Ashley started winning at the age of 20.

I suggest you to read here for the cold truth.See how many medals she had on her bag when she was 20.People really need to educate themselves before having an opinion.

By the way, this has nothing to do with Polina Edmunds.I love her and would love to see getting more international accomplishment.

 

[jrice314]

I know that I am a new skating fan, so maybe there have been other performances, but honestly the only time I have seen Ashley skate completely clean is in her free at 2015 nationals. I know she has a lot of GP medals, but I've seen some of those performances, like the ones from the Olympic season and they weren't that impressive to me. She didn't even have a clean triple-triple until last year. I think Ashley is an early season skater (GP's) when other girls don't have it together yet. Based on last year's nationals, Ashley is still capable of pulling out a completely clean program at Worlds, so I wouldn't count her out. What I don't get is why people are willing to defend her when she doesn't skate lights out. It is not like she is Michelle Kwan are something. Actually, no matter what someone's reputation is, it shouldn't matter--it should depend who skates the best that night. I respect the Russians because they don't unfairly hold up skaters. If their Olympic Champion, World Champion and Olympic Team Gold Medalist falter, they let them not make the World Team. If the US keeps doing what they've been doing, all the other skaters will become demotivated and fewer girls will go into or continue skating. Like Christina Gao. I know Christina has school and a great medical career in front of her, but I wonder what would have happened if she had placed higher than 5th in 2013. She might have continued to do school and skating together, which worked for her that year, instead of taking time off from school and then deciding the skating wasn't worth it. I know there are so many factors that go into these decisions and I don't know these skaters personally, but I do wonder if the US favoritism really demotivates all the skaters who aren't Ashley or Gracie. It would be good this year if other people make the podium and go to Worlds just so the US fed can prove that they can be fair and reward good performances. And that new skaters can break through and should keep trying.

In my opinion, being fair to all skaters is more important than whether or not the US can keep 3 spots at Worlds. And honestly, no one can say that the US won't keep their 3 spots at Worlds if they don't send Gracie or Ashley. I can definitely see Polina making the top 6 at Worlds and it's not impossible for the other girls to make the top 10 either. Christina Gao could have placed in the top 8 if she had been sent to 2013 Worlds and Mirai could have been top 10 at the Olympics--maybe even 7th like Ashley. So if Ashley hadn't been sent in 2013, Gracie would have been 5th at Worlds. Then, if Christina had been 8th, the US would have gotten their 3 spots. It is not like Ashley blew everyone away at the Olympics when she got that spot over Mirai; she underrotated her triple flip-triple toe in every segment of that competition. The problem is that none of the other girls ever get a chance to "rise to the occasion" and show what they can do.

Honestly, I am really impressed that Mariah Bell cleanly rotated a triple-lutz triple toe (even though she fell), when she didn't have any triple-triples two years ago and only a shaky triple toe-triple toe last year. That girl has grit and should be rewarded if she continues to improve and put out good programs. I don't see it happening this year, but if she ever does make the podium, it would be really unfair if someone else in fourth gets chosen over her just because she is new.

 

[composer]

I am SOOOOO over Mirai. There is always a reason she skates poorly other than "she skates poorly!" She's not a competitor anymore and her confidence is only one of her problems. Beautiful girl, beautiful on the ice - just never in the moment. Always great potential, very loyal fans, always wishing and hoping.....and it never happens!

I'm not ready to count out Gracie or Ashley or Polina or the fact that someone might skate lights out and beat one or more of them. I really don't care who wins either - just that they skate clean, present well, and really earn the title.

But Mirai did NOT skate poorly. She skated well in spite of her boot problem. I do think she was low balled and should have placed higher.

 

[kwankwan]

This is actually the first time I've really enjoyed one of Polina's programs. She was so confident and determined in her jumps, and the music was the best I've heard in one of her programs. I'm happy for her, and if it's her against Wagner and Gracie, I prefer her at the top. I'm always a fan of Mirai, though. Even though I doubt this FS program is strong enough to place, I've loved watching her regain the huge chunk of confidence she lost when she hit the boards last year. I think if she places top 5 in nationals she may loosen up more next year and maybe put more feeling into her programs.

 

[kwankwan]

But Mirai did NOT skate poorly. She skated well in spite of her boot problem. I do think she was low balled and should have placed higher.

I agree. The way they treat her is enough to drive any skater mad. The fact that she goes through that kind of insanity and insists on continuing her career is why she is one of my favorite athletes.

 

[flying camel]

I have been watching skating for years. That skating I saw last night from the ladies was some of the worse SP skating I have seen in years. Nobody could seem to do a 3/3 or even a combo. The future looks bleak for ladies in the US. How will they manage in the LP?

 

[leafygreens]

I suggest you to read here for the cold truth.See how many medals she had on her bag when she was 20.People really need to educate themselves before having an opinion.

By the way, this has nothing to do with Polina Edmunds.I love her and would love to see getting more international accomplishment.

I think OP meant Ashley didn't start winning nationals until she was 20. Polina has only been competing in senior GP for two seasons. If you look at Ashley's first two GP seasons, she only won one medal. That's not significantly better than Polina at this point in her career. And Polina got on the Olympic team her first season, not floundered for two Olympic cycles and barely made it. So that in itself is impressive.

 

[snowflake]

Russian girls are not winning due to money from the government, I agree, and I did not say otherwise in my post. Russia does, however, have a much larger pool of overall talent than the US due to the differences between the two countries.

Perhaps the main simple difference is that right now figure skating is the most popular sport for young girls in Russia. Like thousands of girls in Norway want to do cross country skiing due to the Norwegian women winning almost everything internationally(even with Bjørgen home with her newborn baby boy ).

 

[Layback11]

Honestly, I'm still in shock that Gracie popped her money jump but her flip was perfect (IDK if edge call). How?!?

 

[jenaj]

Why should she? She's obviously enjoying herself very much and she had a very succesful last season with her win at 4CC (remember: she beat Miyahara). She is still very young and going through puberty. So everything is running smoothly for her imho.

I agree she's very young but I think, at 17, she is done with puberty!

 

[stella luna]

I really have no idea what you mean by that. They each missed elements in their short program and lost a lot of points for doing so. They're still in medal contention because (a) most of their competitors also missed elements and (b) their speed and elegance are worth PCS points under the established standards and they outscored most of their competitors on that front.

Both Gracie and Ashley are frustrating skaters. You can't rely on them to grit it out and deliver their elements. I am frustrated that they are the best that US has right now (although Polina is certainly trying to prove that statement wrong! Here's hoping she maintains her consistency and continues to improve on her URs and speed) - but to me it's clear that they definitely are the best the US has to offer. I don't really understand why people find it inexplicable that they score higher than the other American ladies. Just my two cents, I will stop beating this topic to death.

On a separate but related note, I don't understand the mentality where people seem to get mad at Gracie and Ashley for underperforming - IMO they're only hurting themselves, and it makes me feel bad for them, not angry. They have the skills to be on world podiums but they can't get it together - such a shame.

I agree with you about Gracie and Ashley hurting themselves, and I don't get angry, it is just frustrating because, combined, they could have had several world medals by now.

I have to agree to disagree with you about the placements. Other girls making the same errors would have paid more for them, in one way or another.

 

[jenaj]

I agree. The way they treat her is enough to drive any skater mad. The fact that she goes through that kind of insanity and insists on continuing her career is why she is one of my favorite athletes.

Mirai skated better than Gracie, for sure. Something is wrong with the scoring or the scoring system when someone can miss their biggest element in the short program (getting zero points) and still place above others who skate well with lesser mistakes.

 

[kwankwan]

Mirai skated better than Gracie, for sure. Something is wrong with the scoring or the scoring system when someone can miss their biggest element in the short program (getting zero points) and still place above others who skate well with lesser mistakes.

Oh, definitely. I can't believe the new scoring system is still in place. It allows judges to be ridiculous and not get penalized.

 

[Cryssania]

Oh, definitely. I can't believe the new scoring system is still in place. It allows judges to be ridiculous and not get penalized.

I absolutely deplored these short program results... I also believe that the judging was incredibly bad.... so many of us know what everyone else must know, so when are we going to do something to change things?

 

[Ekm]

I really wish it was possible to block posts with certain words in them, so I could read this thread without all of the "wah wah wah so and so was robbed drama".

Missed last night, but super happy for Polina, Tyler, Mariah, and Bradie. Gutted for Karen, and hope Ashely pulls off an amazing Free Skate!

 

[DinkyD]

Agree completely. Ashley's and Gracie's sophistication/attention to detail/expression/ is beyond compare to our other girls. I think we are so used to their intricate quality we take it for granted. That said...they have to deliver on the technical in the free tomorrow to deserve a stand on the podium.

 

[Seren]

As to the differences between the Russian and US programs certainly the level of funding plays a role but I think that there are other difference that play a role too. My coach is Russian and said that students there take a lot more group lessons when they are younger and start to compete with each other at a pretty early age. They get used to competition at a much earlier age than in the US. Additionally, the testing standards in the US are not very difficult when you compare them to the competition standards. To pass the Senior freeskate test the most difficult jump required is a double lutz. I think that the federation is trying to make some changes, I think they recently changed a rule to lesson the penalty for a fall or under rotation on a triple at some of the lower levels to encourage skaters to put harder jumps in their programs. Still, they need to figure something out.


On a totally off topic note, I love how Frank smiles around Carly when he usually looks so serious. She also posted a selfie with him where he is smiling. She seemed really happy on Her social media to be in the top 15. I love seeing skaters like her for whom nationals was a huge goal really enjoy the experience.