2015-16 State of Russian Ice Dance

[Sugarpova]

Luckily for S/K and I/Z, they will both be mostly away from the Russian media and in the US no one cares. I honestly believe the poisonous atmosphere the media (mostly the tabloids) create must have a negative impact on the athletes. The pressure from the fed is bad enough and IMO they often aren't very constructive in the way they deal with their athletes, and then add in all the nonsense that gets constantly written in the press. Gah.

I admit the drama & soap opera of it excites me
The main thing is I'd prefer it to excite the viewers/readers but not to affect the skaters if its actually possible. Healthy rivalry (on ice) is very good!

Furthermore I hope it motivates SinKats & Marina to work even harder !

 

[Sugarpova]

soo how high can SB be at Worlds realistically?

as before I think SK can be around 7

 

[Mattieu]

soo how high can SB be at Worlds realistically?

as before I think SK can be around 7

If SK nail the twizzles, otherwise, yikes!!!

 

[lauravvv]

soo how high can SB be at Worlds realistically?

as before I think SK can be around 7

I think S/K can be 6th. They can beat Hubbell/Donohue if they skate clean. They can be higher only if someone from the top 5 makes a really major mistake/mistakes. S/B can probably beat Gilles/Poirier, Coomes/Buckland and Guignard/Fabbri (the last two they already beat at Europeans), but Hubbell/Donohue seems unlikely unless they (H/D) make a serious mistake. So a combined 13 placement is not very realistic, although not impossible (Sinitsina/Katsalapov would have to place 5th over Cappellini/Lanotte or someone else from the top 5 and/or Stepanova/Bukin would have to place 7th over H/D).

 

[moriel]

I think S/K can be 6th. They can beat Hubbell/Donohue if they skate clean. They can be higher only if someone from the top 5 makes a really major mistake/mistakes. S/B can probably beat Gilles/Poirier, Coomes/Buckland and Guignard/Fabbri (the last two they already beat at Europeans), but Hubbell/Donohue seems unlikely unless they (H/D) make a serious mistake. So a combined 13 placement is not very realistic, although not impossible (Sinitsina/Katsalapov would have to place 5th over Cappellini/Lanotte or someone else from the top 5 and/or Stepanova/Bukin would have to place 7th over H/D).

At any rate, 2 entries should be ok for the next year to keep the competition healthy, as russian teams definitely need pressure to polish up.

 

[gmyers]

There has to be a team that can be created that could be good - really top level. There needs to be a replacement for bobrova and soloviev because s/b and s/k were so terrible in Boston. Really bad performances from both and will russia to down to one spot? I guess russian dance is really out of any conversation for 2018 and veritably no russian team will medal in worlds for years and years unless one is created. Maybe soloviev and somebody?

 

[uhh]

Oh dear oh dear. 10th & 11th in the FD & only one SB across all 4 programs in an event when the judges were giving out level 4s and 9s in PCS like the Easter Bunny distributing eggs. But of course lots of attempts at positive spin from the coaches. S&Z saying next season will be the one for progression for S/B - what were they doing this year then following up last years top 10 debut and a Euros medal?

And S/K & Marina saying they were unfairly penalised on levels (ignoring the fact the judges have selective blindness over his twizzles) and anyway top ten is soooo amazing after just 2 years together - except in just the last 4 years C/B, I/Z & H/B have all done exactly that, and I/Z & H/D did it after just 1 season! They should actually be addressing how they managed to fall behind two teams in Coomes/Buckland and Gilles/Poirier who they had been comfortably beating earlier in the season. You can talk all you want about S/K's supposed potential, but they are both experienced senior competitors and mistakes like they had on the spin is not acceptable at this level. That makes Nikita 0/5 for trips to Worlds without a stupid mistake.

Zhulin is the only one talking any sense now he has no team left in the game - both couples should have been a little higher if they had properly delivered, but ultimately Russia sent two ordinary couples to Boston and they are a long long way from competing with the best.

 

[Marta25]

Well, the results for the Russian teams were surprising. Before Worlds few Russian experts stated that they have an outside shot at Bronze, but the truth is that their best team was 20 points behind 3rd place. I think the Russian Fed needs to look at their Ice Dance program and figure out what is going wrong ASAP. Otherwise, there won't be a Russian team on the Olympic podium.

 

[katha]

Well, the results for the Russian teams were surprising. Before Worlds few Russian experts stated that they have an outside shot at Bronze, but the truth is that their best team was 20 points behind 3rd place. I think the Russian Fed needs to look at their Ice Dance program and figure out what is going wrong ASAP. Otherwise, there won't be a Russian team on the Olympic podium.

I'll start with saying I thought the tech panel here was wonky as hell, S/B and S/K got about the levels they deserved. However, teams like G/F and C/B (Brits) were gifted like there was no tomorrow and which IMO didn't reflect at all what they produced on the ice. G/P improved more as the season progressed and passed S/K legitimately, I thought. So I'd have had the Russian teams 8th and 10th, perhaps? But even with that, those aren't super results. And yes, the Russian ice dance program has problems.

S/B have stagnated this season. S/K are improved from last year and hopefully they'll improve more, but they're not yet soup. And the Russian program as a whole needs to work out how COP works better. When I read Zoueva claiming she doesn't know why they got a level two, my head explodes. She used to pull the same stunts with Virtue/Moir and the Shibs, acting stunned when they were downgraded in levels. Yeah, perhaps the tech panel actually bothered to judge her pair in comparison to a few others who were given level 4s like candy, but it's her job to be prepared for unfriendly panels and strict callers. Dostatni gave SinKats that same level 2 in the SD at Cup of Russia. Why wasn't something done about it? I think she's done a good job with them in general this season, but self-serving nonsense like that makes me roll my eyes. Also, why are S/B not getting better? Why are they permanently stuck in some sort of 80ies time warp style-wise?

Zhulin may have a point, but of course he also has an agenda in slagging off the competition of his various other Russian teams (B/S, Z/G,M/K), so it's not like he's an objective and disinterested party.

 

[Snow63]

I'll start with saying I thought the tech panel here was wonky as hell, S/B and S/K got about the levels they deserved. However, teams like G/F and C/B (Brits) were gifted like there was no tomorrow and which IMO didn't reflect at all what they produced on the ice. G/P improved more as the season progressed and passed S/K legitimately, I thought. So I'd have had the Russian teams 8th and 10th, perhaps? But even with that, those aren't super results. And yes, the Russian ice dance program has problems.

S/B have stagnated this season. S/K are improved from last year and hopefully they'll improve more, but they're not yet soup. And the Russian program as a whole needs to work out how COP works better. When I read Zoueva claiming she doesn't know why they got a level two, my head explodes. She used to pull the same stunts with Virtue/Moir and the Shibs, acting stunned when they were downgraded in levels. Yeah, perhaps the tech panel actually bothered to judge her pair in comparison to a few others who were given level 4s like candy, but it's her job to be prepared for unfriendly panels and strict callers. Dostatni gave SinKats that same level 2 in the SD at Cup of Russia. Why wasn't something done about it? I think she's done a good job with them in general this season, but self-serving nonsense like that makes me roll my eyes. Also, why are S/B not getting better? Why are they permanently stuck in some sort of 80ies time warp style-wise?

Zhulin may have a point, but of course he also has an agenda in slagging off the competition of his various other Russian teams (B/S, Z/G,M/K), so it's not like he's an objective and disinterested party.

Believe it or not, but I honestly think Stepanova/Bukin progressed this season, probably more than anyone from Russian teams. At least technically. She's gliding okay now, and sometimes even bends her knees, the edges always were strong. BUT. They dances suck big time. Also, next to zero presence on the ice from Alexandra.

 

[uhh]

I'll start with saying I thought the tech panel here was wonky as hell, S/B and S/K got about the levels they deserved. However, teams like G/F and C/B (Brits) were gifted like there was no tomorrow and which IMO didn't reflect at all what they produced on the ice. G/P improved more as the season progressed and passed S/K legitimately, I thought. So I'd have had the Russian teams 8th and 10th, perhaps? But even with that, those aren't super results. And yes, the Russian ice dance program has problems.

S/B have stagnated this season. S/K are improved from last year and hopefully they'll improve more, but they're not yet soup. And the Russian program as a whole needs to work out how COP works better. When I read Zoueva claiming she doesn't know why they got a level two, my head explodes. She used to pull the same stunts with Virtue/Moir and the Shibs, acting stunned when they were downgraded in levels. Yeah, perhaps the tech panel actually bothered to judge her pair in comparison to a few others who were given level 4s like candy, but it's her job to be prepared for unfriendly panels and strict callers. Dostatni gave SinKats that same level 2 in the SD at Cup of Russia. Why wasn't something done about it? I think she's done a good job with them in general this season, but self-serving nonsense like that makes me roll my eyes. Also, why are S/B not getting better? Why are they permanently stuck in some sort of 80ies time warp style-wise?

Zhulin may have a point, but of course he also has an agenda in slagging off the competition of his various other Russian teams (B/S, Z/G,M/K), so it's not like he's an objective and disinterested party.

Can you tell me exactly where you thought G/F & C/B were gifted? I haven't watched G/F closely, but they've had great levels all season and their PCS was absolutely in line with what they got at Euros. C/B were as clean and precise as they have ever been in both programs. I couldn't see a single place where I would deduct from the levels, and the PCS was fair in relation to everyone else's. They don't have the best SS, and that was reflected in that & TR being their lowest mark. The program is fabulous (Phil Askew deserves more respect!) and honestly there's no justification for the CH & IT mark being lower than what the judges gave to Marina's D/W knock off that she gave to S/K. In contrast, S/K had a lot of wobbles that were overlooked, the number one mystery being how only 1 judge gave them -goe on the twizzles!

I'm part rolling my eyes at Marina for the levels comment, but in fairness to her it is all set up to be level 4 if executed properly. And it hardly ever is. Because Victoria doesn't have the basics to deliver clear clean edges, and Nikita doesn't keep his head under pressure. You can say "why wasn't something done about it" but it's been a feature of his skating under every coach he's had. He gets so caught up in the "look at me" aspect of performing that he loses the attention to detail that is required. Even back with Elena, they could have won Worlds even with his twizzle mistake in 2014, but Nikita did a lazy exit out of the rotational lift, checking the turn too soon, so it dropped to level 3 when they'd been getting level 4 on it all year, and they missed the gold by 1 point. He needs a complete attitude overhaul (this is leaving aside what I've heard about the way he treats V when she makes errors in training but that's a whole other can of worms), but he's almost 25, has 6 years of senior experience and looking at the comments from their camp after this event, I just don't think that attitude change is coming any time soon.

 

[tulosai]

Well, the results for the Russian teams were surprising. Before Worlds few Russian experts stated that they have an outside shot at Bronze, but the truth is that their best team was 20 points behind 3rd place. I think the Russian Fed needs to look at their Ice Dance program and figure out what is going wrong ASAP. Otherwise, there won't be a Russian team on the Olympic podium.

I don't know exactly if something is 'wrong' but I think that people really need to accept this as a 'building period' for Russian dance, and accept that it is going to take a few years before any teams are probably serious world medal contenders again. All National team programs go through ebb and flow eventually, this was bound to happen at some point. As always there are some promising junior teams, though, and several promising Senior teams as well depending on how things develop. It is going to take a few years but I wouldn't be surprised if by 2022 Russia has more than one serious dance team in contention for the Olympics.

 

[whatif]

It was telling when asked about the current state of Russian Ice Dancing last night, TAT responded that there no need to blame judging and they just need to work harder. But between the lines, it was evident that she did not feel that currently there is anything in Russia worthy of top 5 in the World. They kind of gave up on this discipline.

 

[Marta25]

It was telling when asked about the current state of Russian Ice Dancing last night, TAT responded that there no need to blame judging and they just need to work harder. But between the lines, it was evident that she did not feel that currently there is anything in Russia worthy of top 5 in the World. They kind of gave up on this discipline.

I don't think that they are giving up, they are just waiting for a team to breakthrough. I still think they haven't decided yet who to push as #1.

 

[whatif]

I don't think that they are giving up, they are just waiting for a team to breakthrough. I still think they haven't decided yet who to push as #1.

I don't know when asked if there is a team to compete at this level TAT said that there used to be one but it was "broken up". So not much optimism.

 

[Snow63]

It was telling when asked about the current state of Russian Ice Dancing last night, TAT responded that there no need to blame judging and they just need to work harder. But between the lines, it was evident that she did not feel that currently there is anything in Russia worthy of top 5 in the World. They kind of gave up on this discipline.

Yeah, she's not optimistic at all. She also said, I think after GPF, that Russian ice dance have fallen behind 'forever'.

 

[gmyers]

Russia had a number one team but now bobrova is suspended for doping. If they hadnt been pushing b/s and got s/k into the gpf, gave them the russian title and euro bronze instead of b/aag be things wouldn't have been so awful for them here. Russia needs to retire b/s forever and not treat them as number one like they did 2011-2014 as well. Now its really time to dump b/s from number one forever.

 

[solani]

Russia had a number one team but now bobrova is suspended for doping. If they hadnt been pushing b/s and got s/k into the gpf, gave them the russian title and euro bronze instead of b/aag be things wouldn't have been so awful for them here. Russia needs to retire b/s forever and not treat them as number one like they did 2011-2014 as well. Now its really time to dump b/s from number one forever.

And I thought S/K didn't win Nationals because K messed up his twizzles.
The real problem imho is, that the Russian Fed seems to think that they can decide who's their best team/skater. And yes, they've done that in the past, but it doesn't work that way nowadays.

 

[bramweld]

Ha, I think Ms. Sinitsina is finally realizing that Mr. Katsalapov was not totally truthful about Ms. Ilinykh. She gave him a serious talking to at the end of that FD. They absolutely looked petrified. If they were so well prepared and this is all that they could do, I hope their federation has an epiphany. Forget the performances, both dances from both pairs looked dated and their technique needs work. Rather than the excessive chatter and snarking in the press they need to humbly learn from the world leaders how to manage an ice dance program.

 

[Snow63]

Ha, I think Ms. Sinitsina is finally realizing that Mr. Katsalapov was not totally truthful about Ms. Ilinykh. She gave him a serious talking to at the end of that FD. They absolutely looked petrified.

The REACH.