2017 Four Continents Men FS

[frida80]

I doubt the hype will ever get that big even if he wins Worlds. Men's skating is nothing compared to women's gymnastics in the US. If you thought media interest is dead for US women's skating, for men it's basically non-existent.

Just for this year you're right. But next year as an Olympic year and they need to hype young talent to attract people to their products. The Olympic sponsors want to find their gold-medalist to hype. Ladies may be dead but both Ashley and Gracie both attracted sponsors last Olympics. Nathan is a history maker. So the course they want to promote him.

 

[TuTU9678]

Although Nathan's tes bv is amazing, it's hard to swallow that the difference in skating skills between Nathan and Patrick was only 9.00 vs 9.25... That's a whopping total of 2.5 points in a FS, where the difference between a 4Lz and 3Lz is 7.6 in bv, more than 3 times the ss difference! (heck even use 4T compared with 3Lz, the difference is 4.3, still more than enough to compensate the skating skills difference between Nathan & Patrick?)

 

[beki]

Patrick Chan fans arrived at goldenskate: Okay we are ready for another Chan vs Hanyu discussion.

Security guard says: Sorry guys, you have to go home. There no more Chan vs Hanyu.

Patrick Chan fans: What?

Security guard: It is Nathan vs Hanyu nowadays.

Patrick Chan's fans go home feeling rather sad.

I'm one of the Hanyu fans, but I have to say Patrick's FS seems like it has high scoring potential. I'd be curious to see where he'd place if he skates clean. His artistry has deepened over the years. Yuzu and Patrick having to skate clean is too stressful

 

[WeakAnkles]

US men's nationals was up 10% in TV ratings compared to last year while every other discipline was down. Sure absolute numbers were lower than ladies, but it also had a worse time slot.

Americans love a winner.

We may have to get those NBC execs a drool cup if Nathan wins Worlds.

 

[Camillo]

The American judge gave Nathan a 9.25 for performance and interpretation!

Ms. Lorrie PARKER from USA definitely needs to put glasses on before watching the competition.
PCS she gave:
Nathan 46
Shoma 46
Patrick 46
Yuzuru 45.75
Jason 45.25

 

[chairmanmao]

Boyang Jin is a cart-before-the-horse type of skater. Fans can keep trying to compare Jin to Nathan, but there is no comparison. As Jin showed in this competition, he struggles to land all of his jumps cleanly and he's clueless in regard to knowing how to actually skate to the music. Talk about someone moving around the ice mainly focused on the jumps, that's Boyang. Yes, Chinese fed has paid for helpers to work with Jin on improving his presentation skills, which turns out to be more mugging than anything else. I think that Jin is a charming fellow with charisma and good rotating abilities, but he's not close to being a great skater with superb skating skills and capacity for artistic growth.

What is being asked of skaters today is tremendously difficult: cramming humongous tech into 5-minute programs along with skating beautifully to the music, and exhibiting wonderful blade skills. Patrick is the only skater with unmatched blade skills. Boyang can continue to work on his skating and presentation, because he needs to, but he still gets loads of points just on reputation of jumping ability whether or not he lands his jumps cleanly, whether or not he's trying to improve artistically. The sport is clearly out of whack on a number of levels, but the message is rather clear about the quads. That's what the sport wants, and they don't care so much if you are an exquisite all-around skater like Jason Brown who actually deserves even higher PCS for the quality of his skating (regardless of what haters think).

If skaters have the quad rep, judges will recognize them more and their PCS will rise. There's no question that Nathan already has a fine level of artistic ability, which comes across even more in his exhibitions. If you can't see the difference between Nathan's better feel for the music and his greater movement quality and command over the ice (than Jin can ever hope to have), then you can't see it and nothing I say will allow you to see it.

IMO, Jin and a lot of skaters need to go back to the basics and learn figures like Patrick Chan was raised on. Even Nathan could benefit from learning figures. But please stop with trying to categorize Nathan with Boyang Jin. Nathan has already surpassed Boyang in jumping ability and quad repertoire. And Nathan even as a junior skater was already way ahead of Boyang in terms of efficient jump technique, skating skills, musicality and graceful expressiveness.

Talk about dodging the question. A little too many explanations that never answer the question and just went over my head. A 10+ point difference on two very flawed programs. One of them actually has something in the way of a program whilst the other has just the bare minimum of hand choreography. Nathan's superior SS doesn't cover the huge difference between him and Jin. It also cannot hide the obvious fact that he has a very empty program.

 

[TontoK]

Now we know Nathan has arrived. Haters gonna hate. This is going to turn into epic bias comments like past posts of Yuna vs Mao lol Next season's technical is going to be insane.

God I hope not. That was awful.

Not to mention, that when it came down to it at Sochi, neither one of them won. Which pleased me greatly, because by then I was sick of the whole thing.

 

[Lys]

I'm not trying to justify the gap in their PCS or how PCS is marked in general because let's be honest, that has been a lost cause for as long as I can remember. Medeveeva is receiving 9s in PCS and I think I would kill myself trying to understand it. I'm simply objecting to the poster who said Chen should be getting the same PCS as Jin by implying that they are on par in their presentation abilities - which I disagreed. Also, Jin's so called audience connection is clearly pretty subjective. While you may have found his FS to be demonstrating just that, I found it quite forced and even awkward to watch, especially when he was trying to be playful. It's like watching an usually introverted person being forced to tell jokes. In terms of "energy", Chen looked to me to have a ton of that, so I disagree there as well.

In FP, Chen should get LOWER PCS than Boyang Jin.
His skating skills may be better -as potential - but it's not what he shows out there. Flat edges, little one foot skating (if anything). TR are nowhere to be found. Boyang program is more cohesive (and more difficult too, under this side). There is little to none multidirectional skating in Nathan's programs. No interpretation. Nothing.

9 in SS, 8.75 in TR are fine scores good only if you are drunk.

 

[Art&Sport]

^^ It must be you whose been drinking too much kool-aid.

I love Yuzu--he really changed the sport--Just like Patrick before him and so on and so on--Everything changes and moves forward. It's a fact of life,and it is also a fact in skating.

^^ IMO, the main thing Yuzuru offered the sport is the wowza quads that look suspended in air when he's on, but he's had a lot of trouble skating cleanly which everyone has over-forgiven and over-rewarded. In addition, Yuzu has always patterned himself after his idol, Johnny Weir, in the smooth way he flows over the ice, and in the theme of his costumes. Of course, Johnny has designed many of Yuzu's costumes.

Yuzu also has great desire and determination, and he's a fighter. Other than that, Yuzu does not have great stretch, line nor outstanding interpretive abilities. He has good skating skills, flair and competent spins, but mostly his jumps have been his greatest assets. He's been vastly over-scored in many PCS categories.

Meanwhile, Patrick is unsurpassed in his skating skills and I admire Patrick's desire to work so much on improving his artistry. Patrick is the one who helped make quads necessary, but unfortunately the judges over-reacted and treated Patrick like a God who could do no wrong. That over-scoring excess with mistakes has not been good for the sport, IMO. The uber love from the judges when he made errors in the long run has not been great for Patrick's career either.

 

[xibsuarz]

Well, perhaps for the expectations generated surrounding this field, the event might have been a little underwhelming. But given the calibre of this skaters, this was still a great competition overall. We have two new members of the 100+ SP club and a new member of the 200+ and 300+ club, congratulations Nathan on your gold and achievements today :yes:
I'm happy Yuzuru fought back in the FS like a champ, this will motivate him for Helsinki even more Good, quick thinking on his feet to add that emergency 4T and the 3A in the end. We'll see if this means he will let go of the 4S+3T and have a 4T+3T/2T again. I'm biased so I'm a bit sad he didn't win, but I get it, those SP mistakes killed him and Nathan was rock solid on both days.
And Shoma, well a pity about those two axels, but it was still solid overall, and that 4Lo! Congratulations Shoma, he looked a bit disappointed after he finished but I hope he can keep the good takeaways out of it, like the SP and the 4Lo.
Oh Boyang, I don't mind him not having superb SS (I mean, that's what we have Patrick for!), it was still entertaining to watch. And regardless of the mistakes, Jason's FS is still one of my favorites this season, I hope he can be clean at Worlds, even if that means no quad. Same thing for Misha.
Patrick is getting there, I was hoping to see the 4S, but I'm not upset since we got that beautiful 4T+3T and a great first 3A :yes:

Overall it was quite the event, I can't wait to see these guys (+Javi) battling it out at Worlds. It promises to be quite an exciting event!

 

[xeyra]

Guys, anyone has a working stream for the gala? One that's not geoblocked anywhere, please. Thank you.

 

[Winnie_20]

Eurosport 2 is airing a recap of the Men's FS now.

 

[beki]

Nathan is more marketable than Evan Lysacek for sure. But I don't know how much. I don't know how to describe my concerns without getting political; I'll just say the atmosphere in the US is pretty strange right now.

 

[Krislite]

The men are losing their 3Axels. Is anyone training this jump these days?

 

[GGFan]

^^ IMO, the main thing Yuzuru offered the sport is the wowza quads that look suspended in air when he's on, but he's had a lot of trouble skating cleanly which everyone has over-forgiven and over-rewarded. In addition, Yuzu has always patterned himself after his idol, Johnny Weir, in the smooth way he flows over the ice, and in the theme of his costumes. Of course, Johnny has designed many of Yuzu's costumes.

Yuzu also has great desire and determination, and he's a fighter. Other than that, Yuzu does not have great stretch, line nor outstanding interpretive abilities. He has good skating skills, flair and competent spins, but mostly his jumps have been his greatest assets. He's been vastly over-scored in many PCS categories.

Meanwhile, Patrick is unsurpassed in his skating skills and I admire Patrick's desire to work so much on improving his artistry. Patrick is the one who helped make quads necessary, but unfortunately the judges over-reacted and treated Patrick like a God who could do no wrong. That over-scoring excess with mistakes has not been good for the sport, IMO. The uber love from the judges when he made errors in the long run has not been great for Patrick's career either.

Exactly. None of these skaters is without his weaknesses. They don't have the lines of John Curry, the spins of Lambiel, or the full body commitment to steps that a Jeffrey Buttle did. Yuzuru and Patrick are excellent in many ways but we overlook a lot when they're given 9.75s and 10s in PCS categories.

 

[Art&Sport]

Talk about dodging the question. A little too many explanations that never answer the question and just went over my head. A 10+ point difference on two very flawed programs. One of them actually has something in the way of a program whilst the other has just the bare minimum of hand choreography. Nathan's superior SS doesn't cover the huge difference between him and Jin. It also cannot hide the obvious fact that he has a very empty program.

You obviously don't want your pointless questions to be answered. You just want to spout erroneous claims because you are pissed. Accept the new reality.

 

[KatGrace1925]

The men are losing their 3Axels. Is anyone training this jump these days?

I wonder if we'll ever get a quad axel with the current state of the 3A.

 

[xeyra]

The men are losing their 3Axels. Is anyone training this jump these days?

Apparently not Yuzuru Hanyu, who casually YOLOs one as his last jumping pass. He needs to share his mojo with the other guys. But then he'd lose his advantage, so keep those secrets!

 

[brens78]

Oh dammit, I forgot to check the times for Free Skate and it's over

Well done Nathan Chen and welcome to the 300 club

 

[Krislite]

I wonder if we'll ever get a quad axel with the current state of the 3A.

Or maybe the reason men's 3Axels are so off is because they're attempting quad Axels and that's throwing off their timing on 3Axels?