2017 Jr Worlds Ladies FS

[Seruleane]

It's actually the most boring VS that can happen, because their skating is from the same school. Me personally, I don't even care who wins between the two of them. It will all depend on the programs, which are interchangeable anyway.

Agreed. I don't want to see more and more figure skaters adopt the back-loading and transitions filled programs either, because it has reached the point where the movements look incomplete and rushed. I don't care if it is harder technically. It is really aesthetically unpleasing for me to watch, and it's a bummer when a beautiful, flawless program (e.g. Marin's) can't even come close to beating that. I'm not debating Zagitova's win, because she definitely deserved to win based on the rules here. I don't think Zagitova could have performed that program better. It is impossible to complete many of her movements because she has to rush to the next one. It's not her fault, it's the nature of the program. I have no doubt she could perform a program similar to Marin's and probably do it beautifully. That's what I would rather see from all the ladies. I think the balance in skating has skewed too far in favor of athletics rather than artistry. It reminds me of what is going on in gymnastics, where the US are easily beating everyone else based on their technical prowess, but their floor routines are just ugly to my eye, a bunch of tumbling passes with no artistry. And everyone's bars and beam routines look the same now in order to maximize points.

But...just my 2 cents

I do want to congratulate the winners though. They could easily podium at any seniors event. I so look forward to watching Alina and Marin in the future. They are just stunning skaters, beating many of the senior skaters now IMO.

 

[YesWay]

So sad for Viveca Lindfors. She had a good chance of finishing in the top ten (two places for Finland next year)... and she had such a great start to her FS... but then it fell apart. She looked really shocked by that fall on entry of the double axel... I hope she's OK...

 

[Globetrotter]

Nah, Zagitova actually hit all the bullets for her GOE. Tanos and difficult entrance, exits. They score her right in the range.

I think nobody will argue with Zagitovas tech scores. She has good jumps and landings and use the rippon effectively. I just don't agree on the relative PCS. She is no Marin or Sakamoto programme wise and the rather frantic jump to jump after the steps just look too cluttered for me. She certainly is not there SS wise yet although I think she can potentially be better than Zhenya but few will catch Zhenya in the X factor of likability with audience and judges except for maybe Marin.

 

[matcha]

I actually think Alina is (at this moment) better than Evgenia because Alina 1) does a +3Lo combo, 2) has better flow in her jumps, solo or combo, 3) has a more gentle and smoother skating, 4) has better choreography and musicality and 5) more beautiful tano/Rippon which she did not abuse. So I really don't see how Evgenia is "miles ahead" of Alina

She's miles ahead because she'll have two years (going into her third) in the senior circuit by the time Alina ages up.

 

[lauravvv]

Sour grapes are sour.

And a joke is a joke.

Anyway, Zagitova, Honda and Sakamoto were all great today, but Zagitova was clearly the best. I even liked her the most out of the top three performance-wise as well. This time it was Honda who seemed too concentrated on the execution of elements (was Zagitova in the SP). Still great for her for managing to keep it together at this most important competition of the season. Same for Sakamoto.

Eunsoo Lim was wonderful too despite the fall. Such a pity for Tsurskaya. I truly like her and I hope she recovers. But it does not seem very likely if she is going to grow even taller (which seems very possible with both of her parents being even taller than she is now) .

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Is You Young age-agible for next season, I'm not sure?

She's born on May 27 2004, so she will turn 13 before 1st of July this year - so yes.

 

[Mathman]

I think the bonus for backloading jumps needs to be revisited. We have skaters just killing time until the halfway mark, than doing all of their seven jumping passes. Yes, it shows stamina, but at the expense of the composition of the program. (JMO.)

 

[xeyra]

Re-watching Alina's FS, I do like it better than her longer Senior FS with the choreo sequence. Because it's a shorter program, it doesn't feel as much like she's just making time to get to the bonus section that her senior program gives me.

 

[nolangoh]

The last few ladies were really outstanding. One of the best Junior Worlds EVER.

1. Alina is the undoubted winner here. Strong and nice jumps with pretty arm variations. Some very nice choreographic moments and attention to the rhythm of the music.

2. What can you say about Marin. A champion skate, two flawless programs, perfectly refined skating. The epitome of figure skating.

3. Kaori is a powerful skater who also gave two perfect programs of different styles. Best jumper in this event.

4. Remarkable achievement by Eunsoo placing 4th in her first Junior Worlds. Next year's title is hers.

5. Yuna is such a joyful skater who is also very consistent. Despite the mistake today, I think she should receive higher PCS. Her expression today was the best I have ever seen.

Though I disagree with some of the scoring, I think the final ranking is right and reasonable. Thank you ALL the ladies for many unforgettable performances!!! And Congratulations!!

 

[[email protected]]

Russian Nationals next year will be like the Japanese men nationals prior to Sochi. A bloodbath...

They already were this season.

 

[madison]

I think nobody will argue with Zagitovas tech scores. She has good jumps and landings and use the rippon effectively. I just don't agree on the relative PCS. She is no Marin or Sakamoto programme wise and the rather frantic jump to jump after the steps just look too cluttered for me. She certainly is not there SS wise yet although I think she can potentially be better than Zhenya but few will catch Zhenya in the X factor of likability with audience and judges except for maybe Marin.

Alina Zagitova was just delicious in Don Quijote
The program is very smart built and the music allows her to backload the jumps.
Alina performed and interpreted it well, had better transitions than Marin so I don't see why she isn't entitle to receive the same level of PCS?
And I have to say that from a construction point of view, Alina's program is better, it seemed coherent, unlike Marin's which seemed a bunch of disparate parts.

 

[mcq]

I disagree. I think it's very tough for those young skaters to put in all the time and effort only to probably lose their jumps during puberty. If they win medals before that everything is fine of course, but how many are pushed, think that they really have the chance only to have their dreams shattered? The problem is that the girls jump best pre-puberty and before they finish puberty. I watched a documentary lately about rhythmic gymnasts in the GDR who were malnourished and said that they had their first menses at 18! Some of those girls are in the hands of tough coaches, doctors and parents and I would wish that more would be done to protect them.
I would change the age eligibility to 17 or probably 18 for seniors.

Those kind of problems about parents, coaches, doctors pushing the skaters won't be solved just by pushing the age eligibility to 17 or 18. Junior men mostly only move up to senior when they are 17-18, despite the age restriction. It doesn't stop them from learning billions of quads since 12. I think 15 is fine. You want to see the best people in the sport at their best shape. Not just people who survive puberty.

 

[xeyra]

They already were this season.

Yeah, but next year you're going to have so many juniors going senior fighting for Olympic spots with the current seniors. So if this year was a bloodbath... next season is Battle Royale...

 

[krispy]

LOL this line is sooo 2014. Trust me all skaters and their team have been served with this "message" long time ago and yet all this time only Zagitova was successful in the cicuit to win with this formula aside from Zhenya. You know why, because others simply just CAN'T.

Better play with your strengths and pray your team knows how to codewhore.

People have been backloading programs since then BUT Nobody has been this blatant with codewhoring than Zagitova. Even if you look at Honda she too backloads most of her jumps but at least she tries to make it look "balanced" by putting 2 jump passes in the first half because programs needed to look balanced based on the the criteria listed in the CO section.

But heck now only doing 2 elements in the first half and 7 triples 2 Axels 2 spins in the second half is now considered good choreography?

 

[zanadude]

Here. This is Kaitlyn. She's 13. She won nationals. This should make you feel better.

http://youtu.be/QdxrkQih8JQ

Just being a top US skater is in itself not enough to be a top world skater anymore.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I think the bonus for backloading jumps needs to be revisited. We have skaters just killing time until the halfway mark, than doing all of their seven jumping passes. Yes, it shows stamina, but at the expense of the composition of the program. (JMO.)

I'd personally have less of a problem with the backloading of jumps if it would come with more spins and steps in the first half. But so far, that isn't the case either, it's really backloading of all the technical elements. And while I can't fault the skaters for gaming the system, I'd like that rule to be changed too. Maybe limit it to a certain number of elements that can get that bonus. And I don't really see why it's only the jumps getting it either - steps in the second half are more difficult than in the first half too, no?

That said, I doubt limiting the points for backloading would hurt Alina. I feel like a lot of people overestimate how much points skaters get from that... what makes her such a high TES scorer is the fact she has a clean lutz and flip and repeats both (how many ladies can do that?). Without a 3A, you won't get a higher BV than her. Plus, she gets the GOE and is a really good spinner too.

 

[YesWay]

I think the bonus for backloading jumps needs to be revisited. We have skaters just killing time until the halfway mark, than doing all of their seven jumping passes. Yes, it shows stamina, but at the expense of the composition of the program. (JMO.)

While I agree that backloading everything goes against the spirit of the bonus (which was intended to encourage "balanced" programs, because all jumps were used to be front-loaded at the start)...

...Do we really need to change the rules on account of a very few skaters who are able to backload most/all of their jumps?

Also, if they're clever about their choreography, and/or are able to make their jumps part of the choreogrpahy (a la Hanyu), then the programs don't even need to feel unbalanced. Rather thah change the rules, it might be better to reduce CH component score or something for "bad" backloading?

I get the feeling many complaints about backloading are not because people feel programs are empty in first half, or unbalanced... but because people resent skaters who able to milk more points out of the system than their favourites, and it's an excuse to rip into them. Same goes for "mime" - I don't get it. It's like complaining about skaters using balletic movements. Or smiling. Or doing spirals or something. I don't see the issue.

 

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So when are we going to discuss what happened with Polina? Today felt like watching Gracie at US national, wondering what the heck happens here. Is she injured? Did something happen?

Looks like she stopped growing but she also looks like gained weight. This made her jumps fragile. Puberty or injury - don't know.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Looks like she stopped growing but she also looks like gained weight. This made her jumps fragile. Puberty or injury - don't know.

Being number two in camp Tutberidze doesn't help much either from what we saw in the past.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I think the bonus for backloading jumps needs to be revisited. We have skaters just killing time until the halfway mark, than doing all of their seven jumping passes. Yes, it shows stamina, but at the expense of the composition of the program. (JMO.)

Aha, so here you are for revisiting the rules. Curious, curious.
So instead of say, dinging the mark for CO, if it hasn't been done well, you want to remove the bonus for something that just a few people have been doing ... no matter how many times it is repeated, it looks like it has to be repeated again. If it were that easy, many more skaters would be doing it. This is old talk, for two seasons now at least, yet somehow it just does not seem to be spreading. And it's not spreading because it is not easy to do, far from it.

In essence it boils down to - my fave can't do it, remove it.