2017 Ondrej Nepela Trophy Ladies SP

[lanark]

I'm sorry, but it's not like other ladies are constantly bringing something new to the sport and adding new things to their programs. It sounds like Med is lightyears behind other "innovative" skaters, which she is not. So I don't really see the reason of singling out Med in here.

No, Medvedeva is not light-years behind other skaters. But she's light-years ahead in the scoring.
Why is that?

It's what I've always said: does she deserve to win? Absolutely. Does she deserve to win with world record breaking scores? Hmm... not really, no.

 

[lanark]

That's another thing. It is only more difficult to do all the jumps in the second half of your program if you're actually SKATING during the first half. Let's be honest, there isn't much actual skating in Medvedeva's programs before the part where she starts with the jumps. Am I the only who's seeing this then?

Medvedeva's way of collecting points is exactly what prevents the sport from advancing technically because it's precisely her technique that is the weaker part of her skating, and still she's being given higher marks than everyone else, including technical wonders such as Tuktamysheva (I repeat, 3 years ago she only got 78 for a short program with a magnificent triple axel and 3 other flawless triples, all of which were way better in quality than any of Medvedeva's jumps are).

I still don't see what's wrong with being critical of a skater when the criticism is justified. I wish people would stop putting all the forum members into either haters or lovers when it comes to Medvedeva. Let her jump a proper lutz and a triple axel or a quad and also add some speed and height in her jumps and I don't care less if she beats the world record. But not with backloading, tanos and senseless facial expressions, please.

This.

Her fans get so offended and so offensive towards those who don't appreciate her as much as they do.
It's like, will you please calm down? lol
They take it too personally. And most of the times, very immaturely. They laugh it out, saying things like "haters gonna hate, Medvedeva's gonna skate". And I'm like, rolling my eyes and thinking "you must be 12".
What happened to accepting critique, healthily discussing a skater's program? I'm not insulting her or wishing her dead, I'm just talking about her choreo, her expression, her jumps, her technique, her scores. Things that are part of skating and can be discussed without causing any harm to anyone. It's not disrespectful or anything. It's a very basic exchange of opinions.
I understand people who love her skating. Everyone have their favorites. And if your favorite is getting 80 points for basically doing nothing above average, they will be criticized until the end of times. lol
So you might disagree, but don't disagree by simply calling people haters. That's not disagreeing. Most of the times that's just an exaggerated, untruthful and almost insulting statement.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

This.

Her fans get so offended and so offensive towards those who don't appreciate her as much as they do.
It's like, will you please calm down? lol
They take it too personally. And most of the times, very immaturely. They laugh it out, saying things like "haters gonna hate, Medvedeva's gonna skate". And I'm like, rolling my eyes and thinking "you must be 12".

First I will speak for myself. Who behave as 12 yo and who is not is visible by the comments and logic people use behind it, so i will skip that... What I think is that its rude not to appreciate Medvedeva or any other skater. And i think, its my right and privilege to feel offended by offensive comments and to speak against them. Second, its one thing to have preferences, not to be into someone style, dont agree with current FS rules and similiar - this is a critique, but not to appriciate another human being is different. Thats exatcly product of inner hate. And that is not my personal or subjective opinion any more, its hate by definition and mechanism how it works, its what books are saying.

 

[russianfan]

Medvedeva's way of collecting points is exactly what prevents the sport from advancing technically because it's precisely her technique that is the weaker part of her skating, and still she's being given higher marks than everyone else, including technical wonders such as Tuktamysheva (I repeat, 3 years ago she only got 78 for a short program with a magnificent triple axel and 3 other flawless triples, all of which were way better in quality than any of Medvedeva's jumps are).

That is actually funny. I remember not so long time ago people were mostly criticizing her as a "jumping machine" without any presentation skills (when she was having fun doing 4 or 5 triples in a row). And now it is other way around, when she improved her components, people saying that she's technically bad ("how dare you getting so much PCS!! it prevents "jumping machines" from winning or getting the same scores as you!")

 

[russianfan]

And if your favorite is getting 80 points for basically doing nothing above average, they will be criticized until the end of times. lol

oh yeah.. that is a one mature comment.. and very objective and has so much constructive criticism
reminds me of those who write on youtube about Sotnikova things like

I hope she knows she didn't deserve it

 

[Ender]

That's another thing. It is only more difficult to do all the jumps in the second half of your program if you're actually SKATING during the first half. Let's be honest, there isn't much actual skating in Medvedeva's programs before the part where she starts with the jumps. Am I the only who's seeing this then?.

Tons of foot work transitions, complex step sequence showing off blade to ice skills... isn't actual skating. But of course doing 929387364646372728 crossovers like many other skaters both retired and are still skating... is considered actual skating.
I guess the your definition of actual skating doesn't include the most difficult turns and steps in skating.

 

[evasorange]

15 years from now people will look back at Evegenia and say......her??? She is obviously good but is a very limited skater in the ways she can perform and an 80 score without a triple axel should not even be possible. I bust out laughing at the end of her program, it's like of course you have to end on a super ott dramatic note. Honestly I can't even get irritated anymore, I just really feel for the other women skaters who no matter what they bring to the table will never be able to beat Evengenia unless she becomes injured. At this point I believe not even three Gracie-style meltdowns in a row could bring her scores down to earth. They have simply become too inflated over time and i'm not even sure why. If she's getting 80 now imagine what it will be by grand prix final.....it's going to be a hell of a long season:disapp:

 

[Ender]

15 years from now people will look back at Evegenia and say......her??? She is obviously good but is a very limited skater in the ways she can perform and an 80 score without a triple axel should not even be possible. I bust out laughing at the end of her program, it's like of course you have to end on a super ott dramatic note. Honestly I can't even get irritated anymore, I just really feel for the other women skaters who no matter what they bring to the table will never be able to beat Evengenia unless she becomes injured. At this point I believe not even three Gracie-style meltdowns in a row could bring her scores down to earth. They have simply become too inflated over time and i'm not even sure why. If she's getting 80 now imagine what it will be by grand prix final.....it's going to be a hell of a long season:disapp:

I think the rules about GOE and bonus should be changed. It will balance out the scoring. That's the only way more difficult jumps like 3A or even quad can be attempted in ladies.

 

[lanark]

I meant "her SKATING" not her herself, as in a human being. Sorry if that's confusing. I'll choose my words better next time.

When I talk about skaters or when I see people criticizing skaters, for me it's implicit we're talking about their skate not them as a person.

I'm never criticizing Medvedeva herself. That would be stupid. I don't know her. And from what I see, from social media and stuff, she seems to be a lovely young lady. And even if she looked like an awful person, I'm not really talking about her. I'm only criticizing her skating, which is the subject of this forum. So you may see why, for me, it is implicit that that's what we're talking about.

And I don't think it's rude to not appreciate every skater in the world. No one is obligated to like anything. Because that's what appreciating means, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, not appreciating is not the same thing as hating. If I don't appreciate Mozart's music, doesn't mean I hate it. And it also does not mean I hate Mozart. It just means I don't like his music, I'm indifferent to it, it doesn't move me, I don't mind it, etc etc. And that's it.
Do you understand?
Anyway, I'm really sorry for my bad choice of words.
But I get what you're saying. And I think it makes sense. But see if you can understand what I'm saying.

Cheers!

PS.: this has gone incredibly out of topic, so I'm removing myself from this off topic topic before it turns in a giant snow ball of off topicness rolling down the hill of off topics and getting even more off topic. lol

Thanks for your input though. Food for thought.

What I think is that its rude not to appreciate Medvedeva or any other skater. And i think, its my right and privilege to feel offended by offensive comments and to speak against them. Second, its one thing to have preferences, not to be into someone style, dont agree with current FS rules and similiar - this is a critique, but not to appriciate another human being is different. Thats exatcly product of inner hate. And that is not my personal or subjective opinion any more, its hate by definition and mechanism how it works, its what books are saying.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

15 years from now people will look back at Evegenia and say......her??? She is obviously good but is a very limited skater in the ways she can perform and an 80 score without a triple axel should not even be possible. I bust out laughing at the end of her program, it's like of course you have to end on a super ott dramatic note. Honestly I can't even get irritated anymore, I just really feel for the other women skaters who no matter what they bring to the table will never be able to beat Evengenia unless she becomes injured. At this point I believe not even three Gracie-style meltdowns in a row could bring her scores down to earth. They have simply become too inflated over time and i'm not even sure why. If she's getting 80 now imagine what it will be by grand prix final.....it's going to be a hell of a long season:disapp:

Why she is 80 points skater is because judges gave her that score which is because she hit their boxes made by rules. But others can beat her. Wakaba for example got 75 with backloading and clean programme. She just need to use her blades more for higher PCS. Or to do 3A. Or 4S. Actually there are a lot of different ways to bit Medvedeva by current rules. Both Russian and Japanese juniors are working for that right now, on a very obvious way - with higher base value. Its the same strategy men are doing to beat Hanyu. And actually clean Gracie scored more than her once, so

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I meant "her SKATING" not her herself, as in a human being. Sorry if that's confusing. I'll choose my words better next time.

When I talk about skaters or when I see people criticizing skaters, for me it's implicit we're talking about their skate not them as a person.

I'm never criticizing Medvedeva herself. That would be stupid. I don't know her. And from what I see, from social media and stuff, she seems to be a lovely young lady. And even if she looked like an awful person, I'm not really talking about her. I'm only criticizing her skating, which is the subject of this forum. So you may see why, for me, it is implicit that that's what we're talking about.

And I don't think it's rude to not appreciate every skater in the world. No one is obligated to like anything. Because that's what appreciating means, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, not appreciating is not the same thing as hating. If I don't appreciate Mozart's music, doesn't mean I hate it. And it also does not mean I hate Mozart. It just means I don't like his music, I'm indifferent to it, it doesn't move me, I don't mind it, etc etc. And that's it.
Do you understand?
Anyway, I'm really sorry for my bad choice of words.
But I get what you're saying. And I think it makes sense. But see if you can understand what I'm saying.

Cheers!

PS.: this has gone incredibly out of topic, so I'm removing myself from this off topic topic before it turns in a giant snow ball of off topicness rolling down the hill of off topics and getting even more off topic. lol

Thanks for your input though. Food for thought.

Well im not talking about YOU, im just saying that its perfectly OK to feel ofended by some comments (especially when people dont choose right words). Also, nobody wanted to accuse some people 'they are haters' (because like you saying we dont know each others)... but how some of their comments are.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I was going to add some comments but I see it's the - bash the Russians fest here - so I'll just see myself out.

 

[OS]

I was going to add some comments but I see it's the - bash the Russians fest here - so I'll just see myself out.

Hardly, how about whenever ANYONE receives unprecedented HUGE scores deserve to be pored over, as it is supposed to represent an unprecedented standard of excellence and breakthroughs in the history of this sport. When people disagree with the judging, you don't see people go and cry people being Anti American/Canadian/Korean/Japanese etc... so why only Anti-Russia?

Narcissism turning into entitlement, turning victimhood is getting pathological and tired on these boards. A score of anything over 70s used to represent some sort of artistic breakthroughs, technical risks, new depth of personal realisation, inspired performance, or exceptional program quality but not anymore. When the work failed to live up to the HUGE score, of course, people are going to scrutinise and rightly so. Otherwise, why bother watching anymore? Is this the best ever was? Or some kind of fix? When there's no sense of competition, when skaters are treated differently, the measurement of excellence is broken, then it is not a credible competitive sport anymore. It ends up becoming a huge waste of time for everybody, particularly those perpetually stuck in the 60s despite the 3A, good programs and performances.

 

[jenaj]

Why she is 80 points skater is because judges gave her that score which is because she hit their boxes made by rules. But others can beat her. Wakaba for example got 75 with backloading and clean programme. She just need to use her blades more for higher PCS. Or to do 3A. Or 4S. Actually there are a lot of different ways to bit Medvedeva by current rules. Both Russian and Japanese juniors are working for that right now, on a very obvious way - with higher base value. Its the same strategy men are doing to beat Hanyu. And actually clean Gracie scored more than her once, so

The reason no one (so far) can beat Medvedeva is because she doesn't make mistakes. If she falls or steps out or pops a jump someone will likely beat her. But if she continues to skate two clean programs, probably not.

 

[begin]

The reason no one (so far) can beat Medvedeva is because she doesn't make mistakes. If she falls or steps out or pops a jump someone will likely beat her. But if she continues to skate two clean programs, probably not.

Except her last WR was achieved with a mistake. It just doesn't matter anymore, especially in the Olympic season. The judges care more about the narrative now more than they have in last 3 years, and upsetting the young phenom with all that name recognition is not the narrative they want.

We will see the first set of perfect PCS at Pyeongchang if she goes clean.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

The reason no one (so far) can beat Medvedeva is because she doesn't make mistakes. If she falls or steps out or pops a jump someone will likely beat her. But if she continues to skate two clean programs, probably not.

If Mao skates her Vancouver program, with no mistake in FP, she will beat her by mile. But the problem is - nobody can perform two 3 axels in FP now, after the base value of 3A is actually changed for good.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

This.

Her fans get so offended and so offensive towards those who don't appreciate her as much as they do.
It's like, will you please calm down? lol ...........
-----snip----

Oh ...dude.. No! Just no.

 

[jenaj]

If Mao skates her Vancouver program, with no mistake in FP, she will beat her by mile. But the problem is - nobody can perform two 3 axels in FP now, after the base value of 3A is actually changed for good.

So only a hypothetical skate by a retired skater can beat her if she skates clean? If so, I'll stand by what I said.

 

[Tulipstar]

This.

Her fans get so offended and so offensive towards those who don't appreciate her as much as they do.
It's like, will you please calm down? lol
They take it too personally. And most of the times, very immaturely. They laugh it out, saying things like "haters gonna hate, Medvedeva's gonna skate". And I'm like, rolling my eyes and thinking "you must be 12"

If you want to discuss the skaters in a healthy, mature way, this is not the way to start your post.

 

[Anni234]

How about when someone receives huge over the top scores we criticise the judges instead? You know the people who actually made this score happen.