2017 GP NHK Free Dance

[Purv]

And the British commentators were saying they were blown away and preferred it to V/M's program. I think smoothness masks some of the complexity. Complexity is in the thought that went into this program, while the eventual presentation is made sure to be smooth and easy.

Which team they mean? h/d??

 

[Gotlev]

^i agree with you.

I'll send you the application for ISU ice dance judge right away!

 

[Gotlev]

Agree with you Gotlev..but I think choice of music for French was not a bad move. Skaters dont have to choose completely unknown music to impress the public. Moonligh Sonata in a good known piece of music overall, but it is not choosed very often in FS. IT is very rarely actually

I'm not saying that it is a bad choice. It is a very good choice, actually, you are absolutely right. Very smart of them to go with this. What I'm saying is that when it comes to liking music, and having your personal music taste influence your judgement (as a judge on the panel), I doubt that it will be a very big influence unless you really find something unbearable. The difference between MR and MS is not so big (only one letter when abbreviated in fact ) I feel, they are very different styles but both very mainstream and much liked. So I doubt that the music choice will be the deciding factor in who gets the gold.

 

[deneuved]

I must admit that I don't agree here at all. I prefer V/M's programme. The problem I have with P/C is that I always have the feeling that there are two "gender-neutral" dancers on the ice, and while they are fantastic at what they do (Guillaume is probably the best ice-dancer around!), this is not the way I personally like ice-dancing.

 

[TontoK]

I'm going way out on a limb with an early prediction.

H/D will win the US title this year.

They've always been a favorite of mine, but the growth this year is phenomenal.

Both programs are magnificent, and they deliver a mood that neither the Shibs or C/B can.

 

[ancientpeas]

Baz's best film is still Strictly Ballroom. If you can find it watch it. It's a love story, it's campy and it's loads of fun.

BTW.. MR caused such a terrible fight between my bf and her boyfriend that we had to shut the video (yes back in the days of VHS) off and they fought for nearly an hour. Why? Because I surround myself with crazy people so I feel more sane. Anyway, I turned it back on once they decided they'd had enough and I liked it. It's a bit like an acid trip and certainly melodramatic but it's colourful and brash and I think it's kind of Baz giving a tribute to Bollywood. Ewan is fine in it. Neither he nor Nicole are the best singers but it sort of doesn't matter. There is a line in Tango de Roxanne about it being a pantomime and I'd sort of agree with that being the theme of the movie. Everything is over the top and out there in the way of pantomime. And I cried so.. but then I'm a crier. An ugly one sometimes.

 

[MelDee]

When I look at their program, I am very much impressed by their ease and mastery and by the way they can give a clean performance, very nicely readable, no clusterfck as some other programs tend to create in all their goodwill, each element beautifully presented one after the other, very very skilled performers who are totally at home on a stage. And in an ice rink, obviously.
But, and for me that's a huge but, there is almost no eye-contact between the two. In any case, extremely little. I may be super influenced by P/C's tremendous amount of eye-contact, but let's face it: Gaby and Guillaume did not get those gold medals because they had nice costumes. They are a phenomenon, and they do something to the audience and the judges that gives emotion, that brings something different - and gets them the high scores. Ignoring that this is happening and stubbornly doing the thing you always did just because that is who you are may be the best thing you can do, but don't complain if you don't get the same marks as P/C. For me, that lack of eye-contact is simply missing in Tessa and Scott’s dance. I cannot understand why they don't do it, because the MR music and story sure begs for a very intimate relationship to be expressed. Especially in SCI, I saw more a Tessa Virtue Show than a couple. Without implying that she is a bad person or anything ridiculous of the sort (I'm sure she is a wonderfully lovely human being), what I saw was someone upstaging her partner for the biggest part of those 4 minutes. I found it less poignant in NHK, but still, the choreography is done in such a way that Tessa gets all time and space to show off, and that Scott has an almost impossible task to be an equal presence, an equal protagonist. At SCI, one of the commentators (sorry for not knowing all those names yet - one of the B.Esp guys) said that "it's the man's job to project the woman, and he does that impeccably, but she is some woman to project!". Well, that's one way of saying it I suppose. But hello? "Project the woman"??? In 2017??? What century do these guys live in???
Feel free to project all you like, but let me give you a very simple prediction based on the acknowledgement of the reality of today (and a blissful ignorance of yesterday): "projecting a woman" is not going to score you any points anymore because today "the man's job" is to bloody well skate and dance his heart out just as much as the woman. Full stop.
And while we're at it: when on earth is the ISU going to accept that we are in the 21st century and that male-male and female-female couples are a thing. They exist, they are normal and fine, and they're not going to go away. Get used to it. Let them skate for god's sake. Who cares what gender they are. It's about two people skating together. Let them decide who they prefer to perform with. What's it to you anyway.

So in total, for me, the program as a whole is not as awe-inspiring as Gaby and Guillaume's. And that has nothing to do with the music choice per se. What I find is that Tessa and Scott did not cut the songs to their advantage, that's all. I'm also not impressed with Gaby and Guillaume's choice. It's very beautiful music, but man, speaking of something that we've heard enough times already... But what Gaby and Guillaume do with that music makes me fall in love with it again. It's the combination of the music with the skilled skating and the ballet or theatre dancing that brings something totally unique. Because they are such super skilled skaters, they can do something to dance that theatre dancers cannot. They can pretend to float and not have to move their feet to go through space. And then they bring exquisite dance. That mixture creates magic.
I know that Tessa is a very good dancer. And they both are super skaters. But somehow, Tessa and Scott don't bring the same elements together and hence do not create the magic. The alchemy does not work if you don't bring the correct ingredients. And somehow, with all their talent and skill and experience and technique and acrobatics, they miss some of the ingredients that turn Gaby and Guillaume's movements into gold.

Let's see if the judges agree with me.

That's honestly what I feel like when I watch V/M's FD this year. Last year with Latch, even though I could critique them on how heavily "inspired" their FD was by Gaby and Guillaume, it felt like it belonged in this Olympic quad. When I watch their Moulin Rouge FD, I cannot help but think that it's outdated in that it's more fitting into the last Olympic quad. Right down to the choice of music, the overall construction of the programme, the incorporation of the acrobatic lifts, the overemoting and putting the focus on the woman, it feels like it doesn't fit into the trend of this Olympic quad. Even though they are technically very strong, the rest is lacking, and they're not bringing the "new artistic dimension" that they promised in their comeback.

 

[Anyasnake]

I'm going way out on a limb with an early prediction.

H/D will win the US title this year.

They've always been a favorite of mine, but the growth this year is phenomenal.

Both programs are magnificent, and they deliver a mood that neither the Shibs or C/B can.

They have the goods to do so, both on technical and artistic side. However they need consistency to be credible in front of the judges' eyes. They cannot afford to choke at the GPF. Shibs seems to still have the edge on PCS, so they all need to make a statement in GPF which will more likely have the 3 american teams, OR 2 american teams and C/L (based on scoring for this 4 GPs, the 1st option is the most plausible but ice is slippery).
A mini-nationals before nationals.

 

[peepsquick]

Scott LOOKS at Tessa, he kisses even her hand, and yes he projects the woman, because ice dancing is, STILL, a woman and a man, a MAN, dancing. And as a woman watching, I’d much prefer to have a man like Scott on my side than Cizeron, who skates as f he ‘s sayng:- Watch at me, I’m a “superfigo” - .
And, if i were a man, I’d like to have Tessa near to me, with her elegant hotteness, her beauty, her kindness. Gabrielle looks cold, frigid.
However that has nothing to do with the tecnical requirements, the skating skills, the interpretation, etc., i.e. all the things judges should watch and reward.

Really Rosy14? No need to be nasty or to project strong dislike onto people you have never met! That does nor reflect well on you or the fans of V/M.

 

[rosy14]

You're loosing your nerves and wasting your time by insulting David Molina - simply because he's French - to try to justifiy why Tessa and Scott did not beat P/C FD score nor reached 200 points.
Many of us saw on twitter how some outrageous Canadian fans were trying to tell him "how to behave" for this free dance... Fortunately, David Molina is not the kind of person to be influenced by such stupid fans. Furthermore he's known to be a fair judge and he actually is.

Look a bit closely to the PCS: P/C got 14 10's in China while V/M got 5 10's tonight and this has nothing to do with the tech controller whatsoever.

For the rest, V/M delivered a great performance tonight. Scott managed to keep full control of himself during the twizzles. I find the first part of their free dance more powerful than the 2nd half but still, no doubt, it's definitely a strong program, technically wise and so impressive to watch. They will continue to improve it in the coming weeks for GPF where they will be in direct competition with P/C.

If I’m not mistaken, Molina was judge in Peking last week, so judging P/C ( lots of 10).

 

[rosy14]

Oh boy will this be interesting. But I wouldn't bet on the outcome of the GPF being identical to the Olympics. It sure hasn't necessarily predicted worlds in the past....

...nor Sochi.

 

[Anyasnake]

If I’m not mistaken, Molina was judge in Peking last week, so judging P/C ( lots of 10).

And he was surely not the only one.
Just like the Canadian judge this week who gave 3 10's to V/M alone. Luckily, the highest and lowest numbers don't count to avoid those situations.
He did a very good job this week though. V/M technical Base Value was very high, they were missing only one level (on the Dist where Tessa had her mistake) and they would have got the maximum bave value possible.

 

[Ophelia]

Scott LOOKS at Tessa, he kisses even her hand, and yes he projects the woman, because ice dancing is, STILL, a woman and a man, a MAN, dancing. And as a woman watching, I’d much prefer to have a man like Scott on my side than Cizeron, who skates as f he ‘s sayng:- Watch at me, I’m a “superfigo” - .
And, if i were a man, I’d like to have Tessa near to me, with her elegant hotteness, her beauty, her kindness. Gabrielle looks cold, frigid.
However that has nothing to do with the tecnical requirements, the skating skills, the interpretation, etc., i.e. all the things judges should watch and reward.

It’s 2017, the 21st century. Not 1917...

 

[maya1985]

Is it a bad joke ? You are not serious

 

[rosy14]

The Italians probably have some incredibly convoluted and involved storyline behind that.

Mostly I just wished Anna would TONE DOWN THE OVEREMOTING.

It's a rather mixed bag. It starts out as Froth and then tries to become Uber!Drama
Not working for me.

Do you know it’s the music score of an Oscar winning movie about a happy couple and their kid DEPORTED TO AUSCHWITZ ????

 

[Bcash]

Which team they mean? h/d??

Yes H/D.

 

[rosy14]

Really Rosy14? No need to be nasty or to project strong dislike onto people you have never met! That does nor reflect well on you or the fans of V/M.

I have expressed the feelings I have when looking at them. Feelings, which are subjective, not reality, which is objective. So I haven’t write “ he IS”, but “he skates as”, and “ she looks cold”, not
“ she IS cold”. Everyone here comments on what he sees and feels, not on what he knows on skaters’ real, actual, Personalities. Do you know all of them personally ? I don’t think so.
And all of us are “fans” with our sympathies ( for the Devil, lol) and antipathies. Someone expresses them openly, others do not dare so openly. I prefer the “openly”way.
Oh, and if I don’t know the skaters personally, neither you know me personally. So I may say your comment reflects poorly on you and ...your fans.

 

[Ender]

Unpopular opinion, both V/M and P/C have nothing new in their programs this season. They only repeat what’s best for them. Nothing very breakout.
V/M SD last season was a masterpiece and will be remembered for years. I hope they would do something like Pinkfloyd again, what a pity.
P/C Mozart FD the same. Masterpiece but they never really walk out of it.
The rest... is dust in the wind.

 

[4everchan]

there are two reasons why Moonlight Sonata, despite being a famous piece of music is not chosen often
1) there is an iconic performance of it by Gordeeva and Grinkov
2) it is extremely difficult to do sensible music cuts with it....

and regarding 2), people complain about Moulin Rouge and Ewan MacGregor and so on... but I find that MR is at least smoothly designed in terms of music cuts... Moonlight Sonata's faster section comes abruptly and is not well utilized as there are no effective steps nor twizzles on it, which would have been exciting... a stationary lift, a spin.... both elements rotate but stay in one spot... when the music inspires ice coverage...

So if you want to talk about the brilliant choice of Beethoven for P/C I recommend you sit down with the score, and play through the piece... and imagine choreography on it... if you cannot play the instrument, still, take the score and look at the 3rd movement... the waves of 16th notes that start from the lower register of the piano going higher and higher... and then restarting... etc... there is a lot of opportunities here for ice coverage, for exciting twizzles and intricate step sequences... however all of these elements have been reserved for the slow and static part of the piece.... missed opportunities for me... as if there was no global concept from the get go... and as if they had started with the first half, made the most of it, but then, didn't consider what they would do for the fast part and used the leftover elements...

It makes, imho, the choreography disjointed with the music... even if the first half is beautifully skated and created, when you look at the whole picture, the composition to me, doesn't work at all. So if we are going to investigate about MR, the movie, or its awful picture and tacky music, let's investigate elsewhere...
To me, what matters is how the choreography matches the music emotionally, both locally and globally.

I find V/M do that, and need to improve the last 20-30 seconds though it is more convincing now. I find that P/C do that brilliantly with their smooth glide in the slow section of the Beethoven but it ends there for me.... I don't understand what they are trying to portray in the second half.. and please, next time you need to cut a few bars here and there.. (or repeat some)... don't do this lightly... it's very disruptive for anyone who knows the piece just a tiny bit.

YMMV

 

[Bcash]

I think Liz Punsalan made a good and plain point in that Skatin Lesson video on 2015 Worlds. She didn't think the French had the best skate in Shanghai but that the French showed abandon and freedom that people miss about "old skating", before the IJS turned it into somewhat of a collection of big elements.

H/D's FD this season achieves the blurring of technical requirements and freedom of dancing too, earthly and passionate, as compared to the French's ethereal and transcendent.