2017 GP Internationaux de France Ladies FS

[AshWagsFan]

Wakabba though is not World champion, european champion or Carolina Kostner.
And tbh, Zagitova has a monstrous tech in the FS. You always win with the free, in most cases.

Neither is Zagitova she is jr but Wakaba was a jr medalist also Wakaba isn't European...

 

[Warwick360]

Wakabba though is not World champion, european champion or Carolina Kostner.
And tbh, Zagitova has a monstrous tech in the FS. You always win with the free, in most cases.

I get that you like Zagitova. Don't get me wrong, I do too. But I for one am not going to find every excuse in the book to defend her scores. Even with monstrous score in tech, there should have hardly been great difference when considering how the execution of Wakabba was much better, and should have resulted in greater GOEs.

But personally I could care less about the tech in this case, since that would be a whole different conversation than the one which we're having right now.

 

[Alba]

Neither is Zagitova she is jr but Wakaba was a jr medalist also Wakaba isn't European...

And?
I was comparing with the opposition. In Polina's case it was Evgenya and Carolina. Wakaba doesn't have the same rep. as these two.

 

[Warwick360]

And?
I was comparing with the opposition. In Polina's case it was Evgenya and Carolina. Wakaba doesn't have the same rep. as these two.

Perhaps the commenter's comments pertain to the fact that the judges should have judged with a clean slate in that case since neither was a World nor a GP champion in the seniors tour. But since you stressed that veterans with improvement in Tech should have an improved PCS, it only plays to the fact that Wakaba should have come on top with that reasoning.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Your beloved Osmond stands no chance against the Russians and RSU at the GPF. Even WITH inflated PCS. She and Caro are just pawns to eliminate the real threats. So we don't actually care anymore, because there is no one worthy to defend there.

Perhaps she doesn't, but at least she is IN the final.

 

[Alba]

I get that you like Zagitova. Don't get me wrong, I do too. But I for one am not going to find every excuse in the book to defend her scores.

I like many skaters. And no, Zagitova is not my fav. Polina is, if you want to know.
If you're implying that I'm biased it's not fair. Not cause I'm not. We all are, more or less, including you. I'm not trying to find any excuse. I am just stating how the reality work. The PCS has always worked this way and will continue to do so. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. If you want to be upset over that be my guest, but it will ruin your pleasure in watching this sport. I learned to get over these things during all the years that I've been watching FS. It took a lot though. I still comment on them, obviously. That's why we're here after all, but I do not get upset anymore. I've decided I could care less. I'm just enjoying and cheer those I like wherever they might finish in the end.

 

[Kara]

This tech panel is such a joke. Apparently only Yuna on her fall, Polina, and Laurine underrotated their jumps. L O L. The champagne last night must have been amazing.

 

[russianfan]

Transitions:
Alina 8.39
Kaetlyn 8.57
:scratch3:

 

[Osmond4gold]

Your beloved Osmond stands no chance against the Russians and RSU at the GPF. Even WITH inflated PCS. She and Caro are just pawns to eliminate the real threats. So we don't actually care anymore, because there is no one worthy to defend there.

"No chance". Gees, this is not the first time Canadians have been underestimated on here, trust me Miss Ice. Perhaps, we should re-visit this exchange, post season? BTW, don't let the our current World Silver and Bronze medals blind you, as it has others. Beyond brother Vanilla, Miss Ice, not everyone is a fan of Bling, esp. when it is around the neck of a Canadian.

 

[Warwick360]

I like many skaters. And no, Zagitova is not my fav. Polina is, if you want to know.
If you're implying that I'm biased it's not fair. Not cause I'm not. We all are, more or less, including you. I'm not trying to find any excuse. I am just stating how the reality work. The PCS has always worked this way and will continue to do so. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. If you want to be upset over that be my guest, but it will ruin your pleasure in watching this sport. I learned to get over these things during all the years that I've been watching FS. It took a lot though. I still comment on them, obviously. That's why we're here after all, but I do not get upset anymore. I've decided I could care less. I'm just enjoying and cheer those I like wherever they might finish in the end.

That was the reason of my disdain. Not the fact that Zagitova won this or that. Right off the bat, it was a case of Transition should not equate in the other three increasing simultaneously. Not whether PCS will grow with tech. It was you who brought it into the fray. :noshake:

The fact that reputation plays into judging is a bit of a duh! I was not born yesterday, I promise you that.

 

[Alba]

Perhaps the commenter's comments pertain to the fact that the judges should have judged with a clean slate in that case since neither was a World nor a GP champion in the seniors tour. But since you stressed that veterans with improvement in Tech should have an improved PCS, it only plays to the fact that Wakaba should have come on top with that reasoning.

Let me take another example, within Russian ladies, cause I think I'm not making myself clear enough here.
I think (but this is just my opinion) that all 3 russian ladies: Polina, Zagitova and Maria are better overall skaters than Evgenya. If, let's say we take that for a fact (which is not but just follow me on this one) they're still not going to win on their 1st or 2nd skate against a good Evgenia. This happens, IMO, cause of the Rep. that Evgenya has. Now, at International level, this would still be the case against someone like Evgenya, but not against someone like Wakaba or Wagner etc. despite them being around longer. Why is that? Cause they haven't won every competion in the last 2 years. There is rep AND there is REP. That's my point.
Carolina always received high PCS, even when she was bombing her programs. So, she's out of competition when it comes to PCS. lol

Not whether PCS will grow with tech. It was you who brought it into the fray.

Because that's the reality. In all the disciplines. Trust me, I don't like it either.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Gees, this is not the first time Canadians have been underestimated on here, trust me Miss Ice. Perhaps, we should re-visit this exchange, post season? BTW, don't let the our current World Silver and Bronze medals blind you, as it has others. Not everyone is a fan of Bling

Not everyone is as biased towards Canadians as you are...they did well last year, but Gabby hasn't upped the ante in technical, and Kaetlyn is over scored in my opinion way too much, she hasn't had a clean back to back sp fs since worlds...

 

[[email protected]]

Looks like this thread won't have 100 pages after all. Zagitova did Zagitova - that's how she skates DQ the last whatever number of times. In fact, for me that was her best DQ ever. I just laugh at the ridiculous comments that she does not feel the music and cannot hold positions. She hit the notes not only with jumps but with her movements in the first part as well. Her Ina Bauer was much better than...well I won't call the names here. Simply beautiful engaging program skated clean.

Maria may be not the most entertaining skater. Still she is very elegant and a joy to watch. I just don't get those who keep praising the Japanese skaters whose programs are generally continuous snooze fest (except Wakaba) and call Sotskova boring at the same time.

Kaetlyn was not overscored here - now people attack her for that - what an ironic situation. She needs her SP skated the way she can skate it. Otherwise, Alina can overcome 5-10 gap easily in the FS. GPF will be interesting, indeed.

I just don't understand all the hype around Mai Mihara. I can understand the noize about Wakaba who is on the different level this season with a powerful FP. But Mai has an unmemorable program. She is clean and nice but her skating is more juniorish than that of Alina - she just does one element after another.

Lizbet was wonderful tonight - much better than I have ever seen her.

All in all a good competition: Alina and Lizbet with their best skating ever. Maria - clean and solid with a PB. Not as good as CoC but much better than NHK.

 

[Warwick360]

Let me take another example, within Russian ladies, cause I think I'm not making myself clear enough here.
I think (but this is just my opinion) that all 3 russian ladies: Polina, Zagitova and Maria are better overall skaters than Evgenya. If, let's say we take that for a fact (which is not but just follow me on this one) they're still not going to win on their 1st or 2nd skate against a good Evgenia. This happens, IMO, cause of the Rep. that Evgenya has. Now, at International level, this would still be the case against someone like Evgenya, but not against someone like Wakaba or Wagner etc. despite them being around longer. Why is that? Cause they haven't won every competion in the last 2 years. There is rep AND there is REP. That's my point.
Carolina always received high PCS, even when she was bombing her programs. So, she's out of competition when it comes to PCS. lol

Carolina DOES have really good skating skills, interpretation, transition AND choreography. Don't see why she shouldn't be scored higher than many youngsters even if the Technicals aren't there, unless it's a complete disaster like Bolero during Worlds, in which case I'd agree. And that's me saying even though I'm not a big Carolina fan. At least in her case, I can't accuse her of having given higher skating skill just because she's running from one transition to another.

But anyways, agree to disagree. While some might think it is what it is and just accept it, I for one really hope once this olympic season passes, that there is a major overhaul with the sports, just like it was the case in mid 2000s. Otherwise, this sport truly is not worth following if every skater just bursts out like they've come out of Santa's grotto with all the surprises in hand.

 

[Zhenya is DIVINE]

Maria is such a dream! :luv17:

Very pleasing to see Kaetlyn get a fairish score, by her standards.

Zagitova's trajectory is just as I predicted. Things could get scary in PyeongChang. :shocked:

 

[temadd]

Today Alina ZAGITOVA FS score is higher than Yuna Kim best.
Any comment or is it ok?

Zagitova's technical content is much more difficult and with all the jumps in the 2nd half this is just math. The PCS score higher? no not ok

 

[andromache]

Alina's TES is monstrous high and well-deserved. But I really, really don't want to see a junior-level program win OGM. Her transitions are great and it's generally well-choreographed, but there is no sophistication or depth in terms of her performance or interpretation.

None of the ladies this season WOWING me with LPs aside from Evgenia.

Also, loooooove Maria. Around the time of the Russian test skates I was definitely thinking she would have a hard time making the Olympic team - she looked very rough - but she just might do it. Maria versus Polina will be a very interesting battle (and I will be sad for whoever ultimately loses). Would've been nice to see her pull out a surprise win here over Alina, honestly, especially considering Alina's MAJOR mistakes in the SP.

 

[Roo87]

Your beloved Osmond stands no chance against the Russians and RSU at the GPF. Even WITH inflated PCS. She and Caro are just pawns to eliminate the real threats. So we don't actually care anymore, because there is no one worthy to defend there.

Just like at the worlds this year

 

[Alba]

Carolina DOES have really good skating skills, interpretation, transition AND choreography. Don't see why she shouldn't be scored higher than many youngsters even if the Technicals aren't there, unless it's a complete disaster like Bolero during Worlds, in which case I'd agree. And that's me saying even though I'm not a big Carolina fan. At least in her case, I can't accuse her of having given higher skating skill just because she's running from one transition to another.

But anyways, agree to disagree. While some might think it is what it is and just accept it, I for one really hope once this olympic season passes, that there is a major overhaul with the sports, just like it was the case in mid 2000s. Otherwise, this sport truly is not worth following if every skater just bursts out like they've come out of Santa's grotto with all the surprises in hand.

Yes, Caro does has great SS, interpretation, not always TR or choreo though. Having said that, she deserves high PCS but you can't deny that in the past she has been overscored and hyped in PCS when she didn't deserve it.
I don't think we disagree though. I just don't care anymore. I discuss it cause it is fun to be here with you and discuss these things, but I could give a damn now about the judging.

 

[Viiktoruu]

Alina's TES is monstrous high and well-deserved. But I really, really don't want to see a junior-level program win OGM. Her transitions are great and it's generally well-choreographed, but there is no sophistication or depth in terms of her performance or interpretation.

I don't think she can win against Evgenia unless Evgenia does two big mistakes and Alina skates clean as a whistle. When compared directly the difference in their performance, interpretation and SKILLS is obvious, and judges already did throw many 10s at Evgenia, so should she skate clean either the SP or the LP, she'll get them again, especially at the Olympics