2018 Worlds Mens Free Skate

[opruh]

First post here, Mikhail Kolyada is my favorite, despite the falls I'm just happy that he got a medal here. He's so happy here lol. And congrats to all the other athletes especially nathan for landing all those jumps and of course shoma for being a fighter.

 

[Step Sequence4]

First post here, Mikhail Kolyada is my favorite, despite the falls I'm just happy that he got a medal here. He's so happy here lol. And congrats to all the other athletes especially nathan for landing all those jumps and of course shoma for being a fighter.

Welcome to GS

 

[WineHerUp]

I'm talking about the japanese men's future in figure skating. After Shoma's olympic interviews (where he said he felt nothing, like, nothing special about the olys) i realised that he doesn't want it that much- the winning. That's why he is not winning things, he just doesn't want it that much

Someone who doesn't want it would not have gone out and competed with the odds stacked against him. Someone who doesn't care about the future of Japanese skating would not have trained hard to improve season by season and competed in as many competitions as Shoma did.

 

[noskates]

The bad trend has been going on for decades.

Yes it has which makes one think maybe it is just what it is - the new way of scoring. That's another thing that happens after EACH and EVERY competition - so and so was overscored, so and so was underscored - again from people sitting in their armchairs in their living rooms watching their televisions. If the judging is so awful at each competition then maybe the federations ought to do something about it. I don't always agree with the judges - generally when it has something to do with my favorites - but I also readily acknowledge that they can see more than I can and they have instant replay and slow motion and tech callers and usually years of experience. ALL the judges can't be bad.

 

[sanfan]

Yes it has which makes one think maybe it is just what it is - the new way of scoring. That's another thing that happens after EACH and EVERY competition - so and so was overscored, so and so was underscored - again from people sitting in their armchairs in their living rooms watching their televisions. If the judging is so awful at each competition then maybe the federations ought to do something about it. I don't always agree with the judges - generally when it has something to do with my favorites - but I also readily acknowledge that they can see more than I can and they have instant replay and slow motion and tech callers and usually years of experience. ALL the judges can't be bad.

I think the problem is not just about judges, is also about the scoring system. That's why they are planing to make changes.

If this trend continues, there will be less people finding figure skating enjoyable to watch. The scores are supposed to encourage skater to deliver better programs.

 

[Mathman]

This was a terrible competition. I have never seen a worse. Yes, Nathan Chen spun in the air a lot of total degrees, sort of like Shawn White on a skateboard. He didn't fall countless times like all the others.

 

[chopinskate]

This was a terrible competition. I have never seen a worse. Yes, Nathan Chen spun in the air a lot of total degrees, sort of like Shawn White on a skateboard. He didn't fall countless times like all the others.

Yeah, this one is just not something that is representative of the men's field that the world has come to love in the past two years.

It's alright. There's next year, and the next, and the next...

 

[Chemistry66]

Whoops I wasn't on earlier but for consistency's sake

2019 World Championships: Men

2018 Men's results: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/wc2018/CAT001RS.HTM

3 Spots

United States - USA (1 + 11 = 12)
Japan - JPN (2 + 5 = 7)
Russia - RUS (3 + 7 = 10) - up from 2 spots!

2 Spots

Israel - ISR (4 + 16 = 20)
Latvia - LAT (6, only skater) - up from 1 spot!
Canada - CAN (8 + 18 = 26)
Uzbekistan - UZB (9, only skater) - up from 1 spot!
Czech Republic - CZE (10, only skater) - up from 1 spot!

 

[karne]

Lol, so every time someone says "basic" my mind immediately goes to this hilarious, satire Insta (rather NSFW):

https://www.instagram.com/the_la_basics/?hl=en

Seems like "basic" is more attributed to prissy, privileged gays based in L.A. (not that I know any, personally)..... instead of the newly crowned ladies World Champion, Osmond, who I'd say is anything but basic.

Afternoon, CanadianSkaterGuy! Have you caught up with the men yet?

 

[dalenofff]

"2. Some or all of his component marks cannot plausibly be defended, as while his technical content is overpowering and he certainly doesn’t deserve 0s in PCS, numbers mean something. Skating Skills is not meant to reward nor punish jump technique, and by its stated definition, Chen was overscored there. (This is different from saying he lacks skating skills. He doesn’t. Are his skating skills at the level they were marked? I disagree. I am a fan, but I disagree.)
3. His PCS did not need to be highest simply because he stayed upright. He was rewarded for that amply in his TES. Gut check: if you don’t believe skaters should be punished for technical errors twice (once in GOEs and again in PCS), logically, you should also disagree with the idea of double rewards on the same principle. Either TES and PCS serve two different functions or we may as well skip PCS. (This has nothing to do with Chen specifically. It’s about checking to see if your beliefs are consistent.) Chen arguably had weaker PCS content in some areas but because of his high BV, even if he hadn’t had the highest PCS, he’d still have won the FS by a laughably large distance and the title, no question.
4. Comparisons over time are dangerous due to the meteoric rise in PCS, but the World Record for the free skate was set about a year ago at the same competition. Marks for men haven’t changed that much since. So it’s worth asking: was that really within four points of the WR? How much of this is a weaker field, a bad showing by the last group, high TES inflating PCS, etc.? Is it worth asking if these marks are over-rewarding non-existent or yet to be fully demonstrated abilities? Where’s Chen’s room for growth? Or do we just say “subjective” and move on?

Chen, just like every other skater, should be rewarded appropriately for what he does well, given lower marks in his weaker areas (subject to improvement), and held to the same technical standards as everyone else. Not really a controversial statement. The problem is what happens in reality. (Had his 4F UR been called, his overall score would be under 320. Again: boots. Feet. They do tend to change. Especially with a new scoring system.)

I think this was a massive improvement from the OWG... and still can’t justify 90+ PCS. Nathan has so much artistic potential, and, yes, more of it was on the ice today. PE, sure. IE? Better than at the Olympics, where there was none and he missed two cues for his jumping passes, but not stratospheric. SS? Above average, not exceptional. CO? Lutz, flip, flip to open is a technical wonder, not a thoughtful distribution of elements or particularly resonant with the music. Again: I really like Nathan. But 91 for not falling down is ridiculous and I can’t — as much as I try — make a realistic argument for a 9.25 in CO or 9.32 in SS. I can gush about his takeoffs on any of the toe jumps for days, as they’re gorgeous, but that’s covered in TES.



Let’s admit it can’t be, though it also can be analyzed over a given season. I ask you this, though: where does Nathan’s PCS go from here? Thanks to the trimmed mean, no one is getting 100; Hanyu missed a 10 in one mark last year by one judge (9.75, so final average was 9.86). He had 5 out of 7 give him 10s and I’d call that as realistically close to maxing out as we’re likely to see. So how much more can Nathan grow? What if the judges need to inflate to get him on the podium but because his starting average is now so high, he’s run out of space for higher marks? Oops.



You actually do have to justify them if you’re going to accuse other people of “complaining,” but we’ll wait for you to take some Intro to Logic courses before getting back to us. [/QUOTE]"



What I find that is funny is Yuru PCS was 94 points at 4CC, then jump to 97 at world last year, no one bat an eye, everyone accept it as par.. what change between the two program? nothing... Nathan PCS at grand prix is 88 and now 92 at world.. and everyone think the sky is falling.
Double standard? :con3:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Afternoon, CanadianSkaterGuy! Have you caught up with the men yet?

Indeed I have! Some crazy results, but congratulations to Nathan for slaying everyone, and getting the highest score of the 2017-2018 season -- including more than the Olympic podium, even. It was a great redemption from the Olympics for him and well-deserved. Really messy silver and bronze, though, but their higher tech content at the end of the day won out. And good on Uno for sticking it out with injury and Kolyada for getting Russia back on the podium (his FS had 2 falls yeah, but he did have a relatively safe but sublimely executed SP). Really appreciated the lovely skates from Vasilljevs and Tomono though. Good on Tomono for maintaining 3 spots and getting a wonderful 6th at his first Worlds.

Happy that Messing kept 2 spots for Canada and earned a respectable 8th (tied for 7th if you ask me! ) at his first Worlds (including a final flight after the SP!). I was a bit concerned after Chan left, but there's some talent on the uprise in Canada, and Messing has helped potentially lead the way and keep it alive.

Congrats to Max for skating well enough to maintain 3 spots for the US! Sad to see Zhou and Jin have a meltdown but like Zagitova, if you have a ton of tech content and are having an off day, it all goes bad in a hot minute.

Kinda crazy awesome that LAT, UZB, CZE and ISR all have 2 spots now because of top 10 finishes... hopefully this is an opportunity for those countries to develop more depth and give younger skaters more experience.

 

[karne]

Sad to see Zhou and Jin have a meltdown but like Zagitova, if you have a ton of tech content and are having an off day, it all goes bad in a hot minute.

What did you think of the protocols?

 

[CellarDweller]

Just finished watching my DVR of the Men's competition.....damn. That last group just imploded, didn't they?

It made me wonder if any of them had any injuries they weren't talking about?

Congrats to Nathan Chen on his World Championship win. The commentator on the network I watched (Olympic channel) said for Nathan his redemption came with the Olympic long program, and this was his validation.

I don't mean to make any Kolyada fans mad, but I wanted to see him in 4th, so that Bychenko could get a bronze. Maybe it would've happened if Bychenko didn't miss his axels. Still, a big day for Bychenko, with his best finish ever with 4th place.

 

[Danny T]

You are not offering a constructive critique. You are being gratuitously negative about the winner

The only thing not constructive to Nathan here is the judges' PCS & GOE. If they are giving him 9s for this mid-8 performance how is he going to improve? How is he going to fix the quality of his jumps?

I want Nathan to improve. What I don't want to see is another beautiful programme like Nemesis (at the beginning of this season) being butchered by him & team for the sake of jumps because they knew they wouldn't be punished for that. Comparing earlier Nemesis and current Nemesis or Mao's Last Dancer is just sad.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

What did you think of the protocols?

I thought Nathan's PCS was fine, contrary to some people. It was sub 92 with 5 clean quads and almost 6, and I still liked his program... good intensity. And even if he were marked lower, who cares, he won by 47 points, lol.

Definite overscoring of Kolyada and Uno. Although I'd say at least Uno tried to deliver the rest of his choreo (and the PCS was far from his usual best). Kolyada was a mess, but the SP saved him gotta love 2 falls and a pop still giving 88.12 (his PB is 89.20).

Aliev, Ge and Bychenko were a bit underscored on PCS.


Max was solid but lost out on levels. His PCS was about right (sorry)... I'm just not a fan of that program, even if it's him pushing himself artistically. A top 10 would have been nice, but I think Brezina deserved it over him (and I'm way more of an Aaron fan than a Brezina fan).

The 6's on Kerry were too harsh, but I don't think he deserved a whole lot more PCS given his errors.

Jin was definitely overscored on PCS with 5 falls, but no point adding insult to injury. Just a bad day at the office and he'll bounce back. Sad for Nam too not making the FS, but it was the right call - he simply didn't deliver.

 

[karne]

I thought Nathan's PCS was fine, contrary to some people....

Fine, I'll be blunt. Go look at what I called for Vincent in PBP and then look at his protocol and then you tell me that I only call based on "agenda".

 

[chopinskate]

Fine, I'll be blunt. Go look at what I called for Vincent in PBP and then look at his protocol and then you tell me that I only call based on "agenda".

 

[chopinskate]

What I find that is funny is Yuru PCS was 94 points at 4CC, then jump to 97 at world last year, no one bat an eye, everyone accept it as par.. what change between the two program? nothing... Nathan PCS at grand prix is 88 and now 92 at world.. and everyone think the sky is falling.
Double standard? :con3:

Nah, just partly justified vs not at all.

 

[HollyRose]

I just don't even know what to say about this competition...I think I'm still in shock :eeking:

The first three groups were pretty great, especially the third group. What a great worlds debut for Tomono!! He had to have been under so much pressure to help keep Japan's spots, so I'm especially impressed by his courage.

And Deniss was awesome, as was Dima! They, along with Tomono, were my three favorites of the competition.

For one lovely moment, I also thought my man Alexei Bychenko might sneak onto the podium, but fourth is a huge achievement! I'm so happy for him

And Keegan was weaker than he has been, but I still just love the charm he brings. :luv17:

But the final five... Poor, poor Boyang. I was hoping so much he could win here. I was about to cry after he was finished, but I'm ecstatic to hear he's not injured. I'm sure he'll come back stronger next season

Shoma and Mikhail, congrats to them for making the podium, but what an awful competition that the bronze and silver medalists had multiple falls. :noshake: I really enjoy both of them and any other time would be delighted for them to get on the podium, but under these circumstances...hwell:

Congratulations to Nathan for landing those quads and winning. He obviously deserved to win, nobody can really argue that. However, that was, in my opinion, one of the most lifeless, uninteresting performances I've seen, especially for the world champion. That was like watching a jump drill with some random music playing in the background. I can't say anything about the PCS that hasn't already been covered here, other than :disagree:

The final group was just horrific. I've never been so relieved a competition was finished.

 

[cchen24]

OK, my point is quite simple.

I do not have to justify marks not given by me. You can "question" any marks all you want.

But from what I see, the inflation of PCS has been going on for a long time.
8s used to be great, excellent. These days, 8s do not mean the same thing.

So, what does 9 mean? What does 8 mean? To me, it is all relative.
And in this competition, the judges could easily be carried away by a much much cleaner performance, and offered Nathan Chen some extra points. The judges are human. I just do not see the point of making such a big deal out of it.

At 2014 OG, I argued that Mao Asada should have won the LP. But many argued that she would if she skated in the last group.
While I disagreed, I could see why that might be the case.
In other words, skate order matters. Should that matter? Ideally, it should not. But the judges are human, and it is hard to prevent this.

Where do Nathan's PCS go from here? I don't know.
How about Yuzuru's PCS? It is almost maxed out.
It is something the judges need to worry about.
To me, the key is that they get the placement correct. I don't have the energy to be obsessed with all the details.
You have a full panel of judges. Everyone will view things a bit differently. One judge's 9 may not be the other's 9.

Some may think they are trying to be "objective". But strictly speaking, there is no such thing.
Everyone views things differently. I am just amazed by some claiming to be "objective".
I know there is no way I can be absolutely objective, so I am not going to waste my time obsessing with these details.

And yes, I did have some logic courses. As a matter of fact, I have a PhD in science.
Are you only capable of insulting someone who disagrees with you?

OK, keep on complaining all you want. I just think you need to get a life.