FFKKR appealed to ISU over inconsistency in judging at the GP stages

[flanker]

Oh, those Russians... someone should have cleared they throat and said, “Ahem, comrades, aren’t you forgetting that Samarin is yet to skate?”

And from RLT

By the reaction of most viewers to the scores. You might not agree but whatever, I'm neutral on the issue. I am not so invested in the men but watch it sometimes... I do think home cooking was a thing here and personally I don't really think it is worth an outcry.

I just feel it doesn't help RusFed's position on fairness

This is the panel of judges:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1920/gprus2019/SEG001OF.htm

Can you describe the "russian hand" (apart from one judge) in the panel for the men SP? Because from your comments it looks as if it was the FFKKR itself, who gave the points :noshake:

Also, the complaint about IdF is not agains french skating fed, does it? So, if anyone here is concerned about the fact that Samarin somehow dared to score higher than Shoma, complain about ISU.

 

[flanker]

Well Rika with a downgrade on one of her 3As (plus -5 GOE) vs a clean Liza with just one 3A was something we saw at 2018 GPF and Rika was 6 points ahead in FS and won gold.

You mean the competition when they didn't call obvious Rika's fall a fall. OK, that's the benchmark.

 

[Mathman]

I would agree with the idea Daniil had some time ago, that TES and PCS should not differ for more than some proportion.

Me and Daniil propose this rule. The TES must be within 90% to 110% of the PCS.

Now we will rescore Cup of China LP. Shcherbakova got 67.82 in PCS. Her maximum allowable TES is 74.60 (replaces her actual TES of 84.71.)

Miyahara: PCS = 72.36. Minimum TES = 65.12. She is OK (within the Gleichenhaus corridor).Her actual TES was 69.91. If she had had a few more under-rotations and a fall or two, she would still be guaranteed a TES of 65.12. :yes:

 

[flanker]

Me and Daniil propose this rule. The TES must be within 90% to 110% of the PCS.

Now we will rescore Cup of China LP. Shcherbakova got 67.82 in PCS. Her maximum allowable TES is 74.60 (replaces her actual TES of 84.71.)

Miyahara: PCS = 72.36. Minimum TES = 65.12. She is OK (within the Gleichenhaus corridor).Her actual TES was 69.91. If she had had a few more under-rotations and a fall or two, she would still be guaranteed a TES of 65.12. :yes:

I think I will disappoint you, you can hardly give more TES for nonexisting or messed elements. just imagine like Carolina's case in free program in Euros 2018 - 51.86 TES and 75.09 PCS (+39 %), with -1 deduction for a fall. For what you would give her more TES?

It could work the other way, however, that PCS shouldn't be over TES for more than 10 %.

I can only imagine those artistic competitions with only or mainly PCS. Panel of judges would probably just throw the dice and score according the number of dots

 

[Mishaminion]

And from RLT



This is the panel of judges:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1920/gprus2019/SEG001OF.htm

Can you describe the "russian hand" (apart from one judge) in the panel for the men SP? Because from your comments it looks as if it was the FFKKR itself, who gave the points :noshake:

Also, the complaint about IdF is not agains french skating fed, does it? So, if anyone here is concerned about the fact that Samarin somehow dared to score higher than Shoma, complain about ISU.

Not my fault if you misread my posts

Of course rusfed don't hand out the points.

Neither does USFSA at skate America yet home cooking exists there

I don't want to complain about Shoma and never said I did

I just find the double standards in RusFed's arguments funny, they want fair scoring so much and feel it hadn't been in GPs so far yet Rostelecom Cup gets as much as home cooking as SA and always has.

I dislike double standards that's all and don't see how it will help.

 

[Mishaminion]

You mean the competition when they didn't call obvious Rika's fall a fall. OK, that's the benchmark.

What about Alina's fall but not fall at IDF?
You could call them both falls by that standard but I bet which one you would argue was not?

Just stop with the one sided bias where Non Russians must be belittled as much as possible and Russians given a free pass

 

[Autumn Leaves]

The one occasion that comes to my mind first when you mention this, is Worlds. Rika made a mistake in the SP, and she didn't podium even with 3As eventhough her FS was 2nd best. Not unlike Liza here. So it's not like 3As save a skater every time.

During Worlds she didn‘t nail the FS. She fell on the solo 3A and lost 6-7 points there. If she delivered a clean FS with 2 3As, she would have comfortably gone home with the silver medal, despite her SP mistakes and despite Tursynbaeva’s quad.

 

[Mishaminion]

During Worlds she didn‘t nail the FS. She fell on the solo 3A and lost 6-7 points there. If she delivered a clean FS with 2 3As, she would have comfortably gone home with the silver medal, despite her SP mistakes and despite Tursynbaeva’s quad.

This is true

You could also say if Liza nailed her SP at CoC she would have taken home silver.
There's a lot of ifs.

Also for Liza, she cannot afford to make jump errors as she struggles to make up for them in other areas.

 

[Manitou]

Me and Daniil propose this rule. The TES must be within 90% to 110% of the PCS.

TES within 10% of PCS, or they both within 10% of each other? That’s a big difference. As Flanker said: you cannot add TES for nonexisting or messed up content, but I think it’s also very unfair to take away points from cleanly executed elements. So what is BV then? I thought that if you execute something cleanly then at least BV is guaranteed. We are back in the 6.0 system philosophy, where judges give ranks according to their liking without a solid and objective point of reference.

 

[flanker]

Not my fault if you misread my posts

Of course rusfed don't hand out the points.

Neither does USFSA at skate America yet home cooking exists there

I don't want to complain about Shoma and never said I did

I just find the double standards in RusFed's arguments funny, they want fair scoring so much and feel it hadn't been in GPs so far yet Rostelecom Cup gets as much as home cooking as SA and always has.

I dislike double standards that's all and don't see how it will help.

Me too but so far I didn't see them. Pointing on allegedly high PCS for Samarin (whilere there is hardly something as true and generally accepted benchmark for PCS) is not the same as pointing on weird tech calls.

What about Alina's fall but not fall at IDF?
You could call them both falls by that standard but I bet which one you would argue was not?

Just stop with the one sided bias where Non Russians must be belittled as much as possible and Russians given a free pass

Alina had one hand on the ice and most of her bodyweight was still on her blades. Rika had both hands on the ice and most bodyweight on them. You will not make those cases the same.

 

[el henry]

I think pointing to high PCS is exactly the same as pointing to an alleged missed tech call.

Mighty fine home cooking in PCS in the men’s SP today. I will wait for the hue and cry. I’ll be waiting a long time

 

[Mishaminion]

Alina had one hand on the ice and most of her bodyweight was still on her blades. Rika had both hands on the ice and most bodyweight on them. You will not make those cases the same.

I think you need to watch it again. Rika failed to get her rotation, landed on two feet wide apart and steadied herself with her hands.
Alina's step out was very low to the ice, butt almost touching it, one hand flat to the ice and kneeling on one leg pretty much.

If you can say one is a fall they both meet the requirement

 

[Mishaminion]

I think pointing to high PCS is exactly the same as pointing to an alleged missed tech call.

Mighty fine home cooking in PCS in the men’s SP today. I will wait for the hue and cry. I’ll be waiting a long time

Exactly.

It is only unfair if it is home cooking somewhere else remember, like Skate America

It is simply a less obvious way of doing it because PCS is extremely subjective in general.

 

[nussnacker]

I think pointing to high PCS is exactly the same as pointing to an alleged missed tech call.

Mighty fine home cooking in PCS in the men’s SP today. I will wait for the hue and cry. I’ll be waiting a long time

CRYING :sad4: that Samarin deserved less PCS IMHO :yay: however PCS are subjective

 

[el henry]

I think pointing to high PCS is exactly the same as pointing to an alleged missed tech call.

Mighty fine home cooking in PCS in the men’s SP today. I will wait for the hue and cry. I’ll be waiting a long time

And quoting myself, not because I’m such a geniusbut to say I was only using today’s SP only as an example and not to argue the merits here. I was sarcastic with home cooking. If I think judging was wrong, I don’t attribute it to other forces. I attribute it to judges who disagreed with me.

And so it goes.....

 

[Mishaminion]

And quoting myself, not because I’m such a geniusbut to say I was only using today’s SP only as an example and not to argue the merits here. I was sarcastic with home cooking. If I think judging was wrong, I don’t attribute it to other forces. I attribute it to judges who disagreed with me.

And so it goes.....

Not everything needs to be turned in to a dramatic conspiracy does it?

 

[el henry]

CRYING :sad4: that Samarin deserved less PCS IMHO :yay: however PCS are subjective

I was writing as the same time as you, so I did not mean to ignore your answer.

I am afraid that I do not believe that endless scouring of takeoff and landing is any more objective than evaluating PCS. (I’ve read all the propositions as to mechanics and I’m just not seeing how they would work, but maybe I’m not visionary enough).

I’m not certain that posters will even agree on the basics. So how can the ISU?

 

[Mishaminion]

Eerily silent in here right now...

 

[moonvine]

Heck I want to appeal to them. So does Tabitha. https://twitter.com/riverofchange/status/1189165469468680193/photo/1 She calls shenanigans.

 

[Mishaminion]

Heck I want to appeal to them. So does Tabitha. https://twitter.com/riverofchange/status/1189165469468680193/photo/1 She calls shenanigans.

On ice dance?