Mirai stunned Japanese fans -> Do you like Michelle Kwan?

[Eddie Lee]

Michelle did not do a triple/triple at 98 Olympics in Nagano in either the SP or LP. So there is no 7 triple progaram there. I just checked out both performances on You-Tube. And there was certainly no 3/3/ at 2002 Olympics.

 

[Mathman]

Michelle did not do a triple/triple at 98 Olympics in Nagano in either the SP or LP. So there is no 7 triple progaram there.

One more time, LOL. 3Lz+2t, 3Lo+2T seq, 3F, 2A, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T.

Seven triples.

 

[sorcerer]

...I'm merely holding Rutina to her own standards. ...

How do you know Rutinia (not Rutina) is a female?
I imagine that Rutinia is the person whom I've thought to be a male.
Japanese women rarely speaks or writes in a provocative manner.

 

[Eddie Lee]

One more time, LOL. 3Lz+2t, 3Lo+2T seq, 3F, 2A, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lz, 3T.

Seven triples.

Mea culpa! Yes, 7 triples, but no 3/3 combo. The sequence allowed for the 7th triple?

 

[Mathman]

No, it's because she did eight jumping passes. I'm not sure what the restrictions were in those days. AFAIK you could do as many as you wanted to, as long as you didn't incur a Zayak violation. (? I'm not sure about this.)

Anyway, now you can only do seven passes in all (ladies), so you can't do 7 triples without a triple-triple or a triple Axel.

 

[bekalc]

No, it's because she did eight jumping passes. I'm not sure what the restrictions were in those days. AFAIK you could do as many as you wanted to, as long as you didn't incur a Zayak violation. (? I'm not sure about this.)

Anyway, now you can only do seven passes in all (ladies), so you can't do 7 triples without a triple-triple or a triple Axel.

There was a rule saying that you could only do 7 triples, and I think you were allowed a double axel too. If you repeated a triple you had add a combination with it or it didn't count. So Michelle did not have to have a triple/triple in order to go for 7 triples.

As for rutina for some reason I didn't realize he/she? was from Japan. For some reason I thought that he/she was Russian...But I never looked at rutina's profile. Sorry rutina.

 

[Mathman]

There was a rule saying that you could only do 7 triples, and I think you were allowed a double axel too. If you repeated a triple you had add a combination with it or it didn't count. So Michelle did not have to have a triple/triple in order to go for 7 triples.

Thanks for the clarification.

IIRC, Mao Asada has done 8 triples in competition. (Anyway, if she hasn't yet, she soon will, LOL.)

She could do something like 3A, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz, 3F+3Lo, 3F, 3S.

That's 8 triples in 6 passes. Unfortunately, she can't do another triple with her last pass. But she could do 2A+2Lo+2Lo for the all-time record score.

 

[bekalc]

Thanks for the clarification.

IIRC, Mao Asada has done 8 triples in competition. (Anyway, if she hasn't yet, she soon will, LOL.)

She could do something like 3A, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz, 3F+3Lo, 3F, 3S.

That's 8 triples in 6 passes. Unfortunately, she can't do another triple with her last pass. But she could do 2A+2Lo+2Lo for the all-time record score.

I don't think that's allowed.

 

[Mathman]

I think it is, under the current rules. She repeated no more than two jumps (Lutz and flip), and the repetition came in a combo. She did no more than 3 combos/sequences, and no more than one with more than two jumps. I think it's OK.

One more reason why the triple Axel rules.

In men's I think it is theoretically possible to do ten jumps with three or more revolutions.

4S, 4T, 4T+3T, 3A, 3A+2T, 3Lz, 3F+3Lo, 3S.

 

[Alsace]

There was a rule saying that you could only do 7 triples, and I think you were allowed a double axel too. If you repeated a triple you had add a combination with it or it didn't count. So Michelle did not have to have a triple/triple in order to go for 7 triples.

As for rutina for some reason I didn't realize he/she? was from Japan. For some reason I thought that he/she was Russian...But I never looked at rutina's profile. Sorry rutina.

You could only repeat two triples, and you're right, they had to be in combination.

But, I could be a little off on this, it is very late at night.

 

[gkelly]

There was a rule saying that you could only do 7 triples,

There was never a rule that said that.

The rule was (and is) that you could only repeat two triples, one more time each (at least once in combination).

So if you have five different triples in your repertoire, the maximum total you could do would be seven. That has been true for most of the top ladies. If you had six triples in your repertoire, including triple axel, then you could legally do eight triples. If you could only do three different triples, then the most triples you could fit in would be five.

This hasn't changed. There is now a restriction on the number of jumping passes and a requirement to include an axel jump of some sort, which effectively limits the total number of triples one can do without a triple-triple or a triple axel. But there are other ways around the restriction to get seven triples into seven jump passes, or eight with a triple axel (use a triple-triple sequence instead of combination, or double, or single, axel-triple something sequene or combo).

 

[GoldMedalist]

In men's I think it is theoretically possible to do ten jumps with three or more revolutions.

4S, 4T, 4T+3T, 3A, 3A+2T, 3Lz, 3F+3Lo, 3S.

I think Timothy Goebel did 10 big jumps at 2003 Worlds:

3Lutz
4Sal/3Toe
3Axel/3Toe
4Toe
3Axel
3Sal
3Flip
3Loop

 

[antmanb]

If you simply want more and more tricks, perhaps you should watch rollerblading at the X Games. I hear Fabiola da Silva of Brazil is going for the first ever 720 by a woman (that's a quad).

Actually a 720 is only a double! I often make the point that unlike snow boarders or inline skaters, figure skaters (and quad roller skaters) don't jump off ramps they jump off the flat surface and the men are landing 1440s!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I didn't say MK actually has robbed someone's chance to go to worlds. Sneaking into the third spot doesn't mean much except for personal memories.
MK actually has robbed two golds from Slutskaya, one gold form Lu Chen, Lipinski, Cohen and Meissner, and one bronze from Ando. I'm positive she is the one most responsible for long stagnation and boredom of the sport. Only patriotic Americans will love those eight years.

No! I'm an unpartitoic brit that those 8 years your refer to are my favourite in the history of ladies figure skating!

Since Cohen never came silver to Kwan's Gold at worlds and neither did Kimmie i assume you are back to talking about nationals? Again your opinion but one that wasn't shared by the judges or by a majority of skating fans. Just out of interest which two golds do you think Slutskaya deserved over Kwan?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I know blue dog is a devoted MK fan.
Is there anyone neutral contribute to this argument?

You certainly aren't so perhaps you should bow out too!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Injuries surely increase in future. MK was "healthy" for long period because she doesn't need to do difficults 3-3s and Biellmann spins.

Mao never stops pushing the limits. Bigger jumps and greater flexibility are required. Anyone who wants to challenge her must do "more difficult" things.

I don't deny "clean" is favorable, but placing too much emphasis on it is very negative for progresses. If you want see "beautiful skating", just go another shop.

Here's my theory...you're just upset that Mao never had the chance to skate against Michelle and beat her that way you could live the rest of your life safe in the knowledge that your favourite is better than the legendary michelle kwan. As it stands Mao will have to rack up those five world titles or 9 national titles in order to be measured equally in the record books...a tough challenge, one i'm sure she'll make a good attempt at.

Let it go - Mao will do well i'm sure and enjoy her skating as you clearly do. You don't need to knock a legend to try to emphasise how good mao is.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I don't hide a disgust for the word "artistry." It's nothing more than an instrument of political favoritism to help certain skaters. Anyone(skater/fan) values "artistry" should go pro and ice shows. At least in competitive skating, techniques take the absolute priority. Isn't it very reasonable for technically superior skaters to have higher PCS. Women lacking difficult 3-3s and Biellmann positions are "inferior" in this sense, and don't deserve high PCS. It's quite meaningless to value "beautiful skating" in a program of empty transitions and mediocre elements.
Since last season, because of the generation change, the PCS tend to reflect more technical (mostly jumping) capabilities than past achievements. Can you imagine Yuna Kim could receive higher PCS than Suguri during the old MK era? Today every skater is valued/ranked by the "distance" from Mao Asada. Yuna Kim and Kimmie Meissner are two biggest beneficiary of this new era. Meissner is undoubtedly "better" than MK and SC in this respect. By the same token, more chances are opened up for junior skaters. Unlike old days, MK's "classic beautiful layback spins" worth only a half of Mirai's fast Biellman.
What I call "MK strategy" -- countering supeior techniques by artistry(read "favoritism") -- wont work anymore. If they want the judges' "favor", they can't avoid more difficult elements and moves. The "top skater" is not an exception. She can't maintain the position by same tricks for eight years. A great progress for ladies figure skating!

I have one skater to mention here - Surya Bonaly.

She may have been able to do the jumps and yank her head above her head into a Biellman but what she lacked was any knowledge on how to use the edges of the balde to create speed, flow ice coverage and even execute proper basic turns. If this is what you would value in skating, i would have to disagree. I would like people to show that they have mastered the art of actually moving and turning on the ice as well as showing the difficult things they can do on the ice and the cherry on top is that it can all be put together to the music which is being played. Kwan did all of those things by the way!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I've been following skating for a long time, and rarely miss the important competitions. I hold that Michelle's hitting seven-triple programs with any regularity during the past several years is folklore. IIndeed, it takes a triple/triple to achieve a seven-triple program and a triple/triple for Kwan is as scarce as hen's teeth.

Not quite true - under COP it takes a 3/3 combination or sequence or a double axel/3 something combo or sequence to do a 7 triple program. Since Kwan competed from 1994 - 2005 on the senior circuit there are a fair few competitions in which the COp rules were not in place and 7 triple program was executed both with and without the 3/3.

From Heather's site - she did 11 seven triple performances of which 6 were at worlds. If you want to see the info click here: http://heatherw.com/mk/jump/bytriples.htm

If you rarely miss the important competitions did you forget about 1995 worlds where a very young Kwan lacking the finish and polish she would bring the next year hit 7 triples (two lutzes two toe loops) to come in 4th. Did you forget 1996 Worlds where there was nothing in it for the split panel to choose between Kwan and Chen (Kwan landing seven triples again with two lutzes and two toe loops).

Or 2000 worlds...or 2001 worlds...or.....!

Kwan may have not succeeded to put 7 triples in her programs since the end of the 2001 season but she did at her 7th world championship. If Mao or Ya Na are still able to hit those 7 triple programs in 2014 then they will have done as well at keeping up their jumps as michelle - if they hit them in 2015 then they'll be doing better. 2013 for Kimmie to tie and 2014 to beat.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Michelle did not do a triple/triple at 98 Olympics in Nagano in either the SP or LP. So there is no 7 triple progaram there. I just checked out both performances on You-Tube. And there was certainly no 3/3/ at 2002 Olympics.

She not need to do a 3/3 to get a 7 triple program out under 6.0.

For the record in 1998 she was meant to do one but a stress fracture in her left toe early in the season meant that the toe loop and salchow were the most painful jumps for her to execute so she ditched the planned 3/3 and replaced it with a 3loop sequence for the Olys giving her two lutzes and two loops plus one of each other triple ....2 +2 +3 = 7.

I don't think anyone said she did 7 triples or a 3/3 in SLC - she had one planned but two footed the first toe loop and only got a double out - she landed a fantastic 3/3 (toeloops in the QR for 2002 worlds).

Ant

 

[antmanb]

There was a rule saying that you could only do 7 triples, and I think you were allowed a double axel too. If you repeated a triple you had add a combination with it or it didn't count. So Michelle did not have to have a triple/triple in order to go for 7 triples.

As for rutina for some reason I didn't realize he/she? was from Japan. For some reason I thought that he/she was Russian...But I never looked at rutina's profile. Sorry rutina.

No there was never a maximum jumps rule under 6.0 - the Zayak rule prevented anyone from doing more than 8 triples if you have all six or 7 if you only have 5.

Back in the late 70s and early 80s skaters would often do 9 or 10 jumping passes including big daley doubles and single axels.

Ant