Should ISU take a stance on Yagudin's insults against other athletes?
- Thread starter Tolstoj
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You know, Rippon has retired, so Yagudin is not going to be commentating on his competitive efforts any time soon. But Jason Brown, who has been the target of offensive comments from Yagudin for years, is still an active competitor.
I enjoy Brown’s skating and his lack of a quad doesn’t particularly bother me, because he has many other strengths. I think he is fine just the way he is. But just to aggravate Yagudin, I hope he busts out a spectacular quad in some competition in Russia next year, when Yagudin is doing the commentating. I want to hear him explain that
What's funny is that he said those things to Jason at Worlds without even noticing that Jason indeed attempted the quad sal in the free skate.
Yagudin's words on Rippon is much more as a simple insult. I can't believe he said it!
I agree. I used to be a Yagudin fan, but his homophobic comments to Rippon were way over the line. Many commentators would get fired for that today.
I think Yagudin knows he went too far since he deleted his attack on Rippon.
I have understood that Russian skaters have no problems with glittery costumes, because they are seen as opera/ballet costumes....
I love figure skating fans.
All I’ve essentially said is I would like to see prominent figure skaters publicly take a stand against hate speech within their sport. I keep bringing up social media because it’s the easiest place and whether we like it or not probably holds more weight than traditional media. Literally I’m asking for the bare minimum. How can anyone justify silence in the times we’re living? I’ve already stated that the ISU absolutely needs to take a stand. But that doesn’t mean individual skaters don’t have a responsibility to know what’s happening in their sport and speak out as well. Also what kind of rock do you think skaters are living under that you don’t think they would know about this incident?
All I’ve essentially said is I would like to see prominent figure skaters publicly take a stand against hate speech within their sport. I keep bringing up social media because it’s the easiest place and whether we like it or not probably holds more weight than traditional media. Literally I’m asking for the bare minimum. How can anyone justify silence in the times we’re living? I’ve already stated that the ISU absolutely needs to take a stand. But that doesn’t mean individual skaters don’t have a responsibility to know what’s happening in their sport and speak out as well. Also what kind of rock do you think skaters are living under that you don’t think they would know about this incident?
And that’s great for you albeit a very sad and slippery slope. Does that mean you don’t care if a 21 year old skater was the one saying homophobic and hateful things?
This is a young sport and I know a few young skaters, some of whom are LGBTQ*, that it would mean a lot to see big names speaking up. I’m really wondering what the average age of golden skate is because this is not the first time it feels incredibly out of touch.
This is a young sport and I know a few young skaters, some of whom are LGBTQ*, that it would mean a lot to see big names speaking up. I’m really wondering what the average age of golden skate is because this is not the first time it feels incredibly out of touch.
Why is it sad and why is it slippery? Separately, please.
And no, I wouldn't care if a 21 year old said something bad. Much like I didn't care that 17 year old Vincent Zhou was getting "canceled" online for something he said. These are people who have lived very little life. I would feel more sad about what led them to be that way. Yagudin is different because he's had loads of time and experience.
And you already are getting meaningful backlash. When some Russian like Medvedeva, adored by Russians themselves, praises Rippon, it means more than someone from America, liberal Western country.
Yeah it really must only be because we're old and out of touch. I'm ageless, though.
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I do not assume that following someone means agreement with them. For those of us who read a lot of news online through twitter it would be unwise to not follow people just because you disagree with them. Then your feed starts to feel like an echo chamber and you never do learn why people with differing opinions feel the way that they do (if only so you can come up with a counter argument if meaningful discussion is impossible).
Likes are different than follows. I think if Nathan had liked Yagudin's post then we might have the right to say something but for all we know Nathan is blissfully unaware.
Also some of these older skaters (like Shae-Lynn for example) know him in real life. I'm pretty sure Shae-Lynn would have toured with him.
I come from a very conservative background and one of my long term (2001) friends who was a libertarian and is now an avid trump supporter. I have not unfollowed my parents or other conservative relatives. I have not unfollowed this friend on Facebook (I don't think I could stand him on twitter so we have not followed each other). I have considered ending our association on Facebook and but I have not. Not because I agree with their homophobic, racist views (and believe me they are) but because I care for them as humans. I often don't respond to their political posts (except if they are talking about my country or if I just can't hold my tongue- he nearly always removes these posts because he says his other facebook friends are all like him and don't know me and will come after me and harass me). I do respond to his posts when he talks about his travels or other things we still have in common. I keep hoping he is going to go back to the person I knew in 2016-a person with conservative views but not the one who posts anti homosexual and anti immigrant propaganda. It is more likely that he will say something that will push me over my line and I will block him. I have resisted because once upon a time I loved him and he was exceptionally kind to me for several years. I will probably cry when I do it but I will do it. I will never unfollow my father.
Try not to judge people so harshly by who they have as social media follows and friends. Sometimes it is complicated. Sometimes, especially if there is a personal relationship, there is a connection that is emotional and hard to break. For all we know some of those former skaters are very good friends with him. Alexei might be a very nice person most of the time and to people he likes. We simply don't know. Most people are a complicated mix of nice and unpleasant and the only thing that differs is the ratio. Maybe these people who have not unfollowed him have some hope that they can, through positivity and discourse, reach him and change his mind. Not everyone's first reaction to seeing something that is offensive or upsets them it to become confrontational or to unfollow. Think of it as the internet equivalent of Fight, flight or freeze.
Likes are different than follows. I think if Nathan had liked Yagudin's post then we might have the right to say something but for all we know Nathan is blissfully unaware.
Also some of these older skaters (like Shae-Lynn for example) know him in real life. I'm pretty sure Shae-Lynn would have toured with him.
I come from a very conservative background and one of my long term (2001) friends who was a libertarian and is now an avid trump supporter. I have not unfollowed my parents or other conservative relatives. I have not unfollowed this friend on Facebook (I don't think I could stand him on twitter so we have not followed each other). I have considered ending our association on Facebook and but I have not. Not because I agree with their homophobic, racist views (and believe me they are) but because I care for them as humans. I often don't respond to their political posts (except if they are talking about my country or if I just can't hold my tongue- he nearly always removes these posts because he says his other facebook friends are all like him and don't know me and will come after me and harass me). I do respond to his posts when he talks about his travels or other things we still have in common. I keep hoping he is going to go back to the person I knew in 2016-a person with conservative views but not the one who posts anti homosexual and anti immigrant propaganda. It is more likely that he will say something that will push me over my line and I will block him. I have resisted because once upon a time I loved him and he was exceptionally kind to me for several years. I will probably cry when I do it but I will do it. I will never unfollow my father.
Try not to judge people so harshly by who they have as social media follows and friends. Sometimes it is complicated. Sometimes, especially if there is a personal relationship, there is a connection that is emotional and hard to break. For all we know some of those former skaters are very good friends with him. Alexei might be a very nice person most of the time and to people he likes. We simply don't know. Most people are a complicated mix of nice and unpleasant and the only thing that differs is the ratio. Maybe these people who have not unfollowed him have some hope that they can, through positivity and discourse, reach him and change his mind. Not everyone's first reaction to seeing something that is offensive or upsets them it to become confrontational or to unfollow. Think of it as the internet equivalent of Fight, flight or freeze.
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Probably pointless, but I will engage.
Unfortunately, no you didn't. Big difference between saying you'd like for skaters to speak up for Adam and others affected by Yagudin's comments, and between basically calling everyne who hasn't done so complicit, and condemning them. That will be a long list then... The tone you took is unnecessarily aggressive and confrontational, and no matter how frustrated you are, it will not strengthen your point. Neither will your blatant ageism. Funny you fight against hate here, and yet have no problem engaging in stereotyping older people by labelling them out of touch. Wondering about the average age on this forum because the comments feel a certain way to you is entirely inappropriate... Way to go, fighting for kindness and acceptance by doing the opposite.
Unfortunately, no you didn't. Big difference between saying you'd like for skaters to speak up for Adam and others affected by Yagudin's comments, and between basically calling everyne who hasn't done so complicit, and condemning them. That will be a long list then... The tone you took is unnecessarily aggressive and confrontational, and no matter how frustrated you are, it will not strengthen your point. Neither will your blatant ageism. Funny you fight against hate here, and yet have no problem engaging in stereotyping older people by labelling them out of touch. Wondering about the average age on this forum because the comments feel a certain way to you is entirely inappropriate... Way to go, fighting for kindness and acceptance by doing the opposite.
I didn't find a Twitter for him.
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There is a difference between snide or even scathing comments on figureskaters doing figureskating elements—critics in every art form do it all the time and for uncounted centuries— and a hate speech attacks based on personal life.
As noted, Yagudin deleted the post, so he is aware or was made aware on some level that he can’t wish death on others out of hatred. Hopefully, that’s the end of it and he wouldn’t resurface every few months with another tirade of that nature.
As noted, Yagudin deleted the post, so he is aware or was made aware on some level that he can’t wish death on others out of hatred. Hopefully, that’s the end of it and he wouldn’t resurface every few months with another tirade of that nature.
Oooh boy everyone’s really talking in circles try to take what I’ve said and make it negative. I don’t see how me questioning the age of this forum is any worse than people saying they don’t care what a 21 year old has to say simply because he’s 21.
And I never made calls for kindness. Blanket kindness moves us no where. Yagudin sucks. People in positions of power staying silent sucks. Social change doesn’t happen just being nice.
And I never made calls for kindness. Blanket kindness moves us no where. Yagudin sucks. People in positions of power staying silent sucks. Social change doesn’t happen just being nice.
The difference being that you decided to say the forum was out of touch, whereas I said it's because they've lived little life. It is clear that this difference evades you, which is why you're mad about Chen not saying anything. You just for the life of you can't see that there is a difference of opinion, nor that the people here might have something to add to your worldview.
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It is your own words that make you sound negative. And you're very wrong re. your age comparison. Just like being black or being trans leads to discrimination with a higher certainty than being white and straight, it's well-known that older people are more discriminated against than young ones. I notice that although I'm very far from retirement age. And noone's 'going in circles' around anything, it's you yourself who brought up this intolerant age rhetorics, only to get offended when someone notices and call you out. No indeed, I was wrong to associate your words with a quest for kindness and acceptance; they're all but. I am honored that you feel myself and one or two others are 'everyone'. lol. Anyhow, if you feel the users here are too 'old' for your taste, you are welcome to look for better company elsewhere.
It’s not the age of this forum that turns me away it’s the disinterest and antagonism of social justice and change that turn me off. The fact that a thread questioning if the ISU should should take action against Yagudin’s actions needed to be made really says so much. How is it even a question if they should do something?
Trivially, it is.
Apart from that, could you tell us how and where we antagonised social justice and change? There's even a thread about celebrating black excellence on this forum, lol.
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Everyone's opinion, no matter of age, should matter equally. A person who is 21 has a different set of life experiences than someone who is 40 just like someone who is 40 has a different set of life experiences than someone who is 70. All are valid. All are important.
Being mad at Nathan for not unfollowing Yagudin is your right. It is also the right of others to point out reasons why Nathan and others might not have unfollowed be more nuanced and worthy of consideration.
It is always interesting to talk to former racists and homophobic people and find out what changed their minds. A lot of people when attacked will just dig in their heels. A lot of these former racists and homophobic people will say that what changed them was not the hate they received for their views but by having personal positive experiences with people of different races, religions and sexual preference. Most people learn as a child about love by being loved not by being hated. Hate breeds hate. Banish these people with problematic views and the only people they have left to talk to are people who share the same views. How is any change possible then? Let us remember the conduct of people like MLK and Nelson Mandela. Let us model ourselves after the best humanity can be rather than the worst.
To All: Please keep the bickering and personal attacks to a minimum. We can discuss these difficult issues with civility and open hearts.
Being mad at Nathan for not unfollowing Yagudin is your right. It is also the right of others to point out reasons why Nathan and others might not have unfollowed be more nuanced and worthy of consideration.
It is always interesting to talk to former racists and homophobic people and find out what changed their minds. A lot of people when attacked will just dig in their heels. A lot of these former racists and homophobic people will say that what changed them was not the hate they received for their views but by having personal positive experiences with people of different races, religions and sexual preference. Most people learn as a child about love by being loved not by being hated. Hate breeds hate. Banish these people with problematic views and the only people they have left to talk to are people who share the same views. How is any change possible then? Let us remember the conduct of people like MLK and Nelson Mandela. Let us model ourselves after the best humanity can be rather than the worst.
To All: Please keep the bickering and personal attacks to a minimum. We can discuss these difficult issues with civility and open hearts.
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