2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Shayuki]

I don’t think what Sasha has achieved, in terms of number of quads she learned, will ever be something „normal“ - meaning something all ladies one day will be able to repeat. Sasha was, is and will be exceptional in that, imo. But if there’s a lady I think can repeat that and land/learn just as many quads, it’s Veronika.

Well, I'd probably need to disagree on this. Trusova at her age wasn't getting even close to fully rotating a quad. In fact, she took quite a while to do so even after her junior debut. Veronika's already landed 3As and quads - even though this 4Lutz looks a bit under. As far as overall jumping technique goes, Veronika's is far better in just about every way, too.

Then if we're getting to overall tech content, Veronika might be an even better spinner than she is a jumper, while spins have been Trusova's biggest weakness.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

The problem is that they called her first jump as 3S (and not as 4S<<), and to be fair i don't know the exact reason for that call when for me it was an obvious quad attempt. Probably on a replay it looked more as a barely rotated triple, but still Because she had another 3S, and two 3Lz and two 3F, her second 3F as the last repeated jump is invalidated.

It was less than 1/4 over a triple (even with the most prerotation I've ever seen on a salchof - which explains the lean as she tries to rotate before taking off....) . The rule is it's only even considered an attempt if it's more than 1/4 over the triple. Otherwise people can just throw themselves into triples and get them called <<

I agree. I don't like his unsmiling, gloomy face...For me Mikhaylov is more goodlooking among AP's staff.

Id say Rozanov is hot in the standoffish hot vampire Edward Cullen type of way. I'd maybe expect him to appear in a perfume advert. Still a good looking guy, but not my cup of tea.

 

[Jontor]

The problem is that they called her first jump as 3S (and not as 4S<<), and to be fair i don't know the exact reason for that call when for me it was an obvious quad attempt. Probably on a replay it looked more as a barely rotated triple, but still Because she had another 3S, and two 3Lz and two 3F, her second 3F as the last repeated jump is invalidated.

My mistake. It was the last 3F that got invalidated not the 3T. Yes, it was odd that the 4S was called 3S. I don't know the exact rule here, but the quad attempt was very poor. I was thinking abouth Sasha, she had a few 4S attempts last season that either singled or doubled out, and of course they were never called 4S<<. So I guess you need to be over the triple mark to get the quad<< call?

 

[Jontor]

It was less than 1/4 over a triple (even with the most prerotation I've ever seen on a salchof - which explains the lean as she tries to rotate before taking off....) . The rule is it's only even considered an attempt if it's more than 1/4 over the triple. Otherwise people can just throw themselves into triples and get them called <<

Thanks for the explanation. My point was though that Maiia didn't seem to have a plan B if this was to happen. She needs that.

 

[Fried]

Well, I'd probably need to disagree on this. Trusova at her age wasn't getting even close to fully rotating a quad. In fact, she took quite a while to do so even after her junior debut. Veronika's already landed 3As and quads - even though this 4Lutz looks a bit under. As far as overall jumping technique goes, Veronika's is far better in just about every way, too.

Then if we're getting to overall tech content, Veronika might be an even better spinner than she is a jumper, while spins have been Trusova's biggest weakness.

An impossible comparison. Sasha was the icebreaker who paved the way for all who followed. She literally had no one to learn from. But the younger ones basically all learn from her. She's the one who made history. No one else will be able to repeat this for decades.
I even dare to say that something so unique will never repeat itself at all.

 

[brakes]

Maybe someone will post a short message chat soon and the truth will emerge. Laishev lured Alina with a nice, large flag, but she only replied "Thank you very much, but I'd rather stay with ice age."

Look at the way she was pulling the flag up - there was no place for other person. They would've to choose one (to their own detriment).




Miroslava Lebedeva, 6yo, winner of youngest age group in tourney celebrating 50 years of "Sambo-70" bringing back Pyeongchang's gold-black swan vibes!

 

[sclloyd]

Well then there are some people from the dreamland here and generally on the internet. I ignored the message that “Sasha couldn’t learn 4Lo because Rozanov was away”, from another dreamland user, because she never said that, and I have translated what she said before. It’s just another example, where Rozanov is given the credit due to wishful thinking. There were many more in this thread before.

you know that you do not just "ignore" me when you call me out but don't use my name, yeah? very petty.

link the translation then, sasha said in interview that the 4Lo was on hold because Rozanov was away with the juniors for competitions and could not hold the rod. so correct the translation instead of being skeevy, then.

 

[eliana]

An impossible comparison. Sasha was the icebreaker who paved the way for all who followed. She literally had no one to learn from. But the younger ones basically all learn from her. She's the one who made history. No one else will be able to repeat this for decades.
I even dare to say that something so unique will never repeat itself at all.

Sasha is the only one to enter in the Guinness Book

 

[brakes]

An impossible comparison. Sasha was the icebreaker who paved the way for all who followed. She literally had no one to learn from. But the younger ones basically all learn from her. She's the one who made history. No one else will be able to repeat this for decades.
I even dare to say that something so unique will never repeat itself at all.

Anna Shcherbakova's 4T was the first quad publicized by Tutberidze group (in April of 2017).

 

[Fried]

Anna Shcherbakova's 4T was the first quad publicized by Tutberidze group (in April of 2017).

And what does that change about my statement? Absolutely nothing.

 

[brakes]

And what does that change about my statement? Absolutely nothing.

You wrote Sasha was the icebreaker who paved the way for all who followed and that she literally had no one to learn from, lol.
Anna jumped quads before her, so what you wrote is false. Does it change enough in your statement, so you graciously let me quote you or should I ask for your permission in the future?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

It was less than 1/4 over a triple (even with the most prerotation I've ever seen on a salchof - which explains the lean as she tries to rotate before taking off....) . The rule is it's only even considered an attempt if it's more than 1/4 over the triple. Otherwise people can just throw themselves into triples and get them called <<

Hm, i've never heard of that 'rule'. The point is that the base value of the downgraded jump is the same as a triple. But by calling it a triple the tech panel messed up not the score of that one jump, but the score of her other jumps (due to Zayak rule). Also, this is what ISU tech panel handbook is saying 'The TP must call the attempted jump even if it is clear that it is under-rotated or will be downgraded'.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

OMG! I LOVE Veronika Zhilina's quad lutz! It is with minimal pre-rotation! Who from the users here said that probably it is impossible for a ladies skater to land a quad with minimal pre-rotation? Well, Veronika landed at least two quads with minimal pre-rotation -
- the quad toe loop and the quad lutz!
I have to admit that her quad toe loop was excellent, while her quad lutz seems to be underrotated, but she still has 3.50 genuine rotations in the air with her quad lutz! Much more genuine rotations in the air in comparions to Trusova's quad lutz and Shcherbakova's quad lutz.
Congrats to Veronika Zhilina, Sergei Rozanov (the Russian king of beauty) and to Evgeni Plushenko.
Minimal pre-rotation indeed:

Вероника Жилина 4лутц

#alinazagitova#щербакова#alexandratrusova #AlenaKostornaia

youtu.be

 

[Skatesocs]

Hm, i've never heard of that 'rule'. The point is that the base value of the downgraded jump is the same as a triple. But by calling it a triple the tech panel messed up not the score of that one jump, but the score of her other jumps (due to Zayak rule). Also, this is what ISU tech panel handbook is saying 'The TP must call the attempted jump even if it is clear that it is under-rotated or will be downgraded'.

How do you tell if someone went for a quad and downgraded it vs someone attempted a triple?

 

[Fried]

You wrote Sasha was the icebreaker who paved the way for all who followed and that she literally had no one to learn from, lol.
Anna jumped quads before her, so what you wrote is false. Does it change enough in your statement, so you graciously let me quote you or should I ask for your permission in the future?

1. I wrote that all the younger ones learn from her (because a comparison was made with Zhilina).
2. Nobody knows whether Anna "jumped quads" or exactly jumped ONE quad at this point. However, it should be undisputed that Anna did not start training quads before Sasha.

And since otherwise generally (and especially in Sasha's case when she lands 5 quads in the FS) the following sentence applies: "What happens in training does not count, what counts is what is successfully landed in competition." let's see who has landed 3 different (!) quads first.
And then we look at how many quads all the women have landed so far and then we see that Sasha is in her own league.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Id say Rozanov is hot in the standoffish hot vampire Edward Cullen type of way. I'd maybe expect him to appear in a perfume advert. Still a good looking guy, but not my cup of tea.

Perfume advert. Hahaha...

 

[Baron Vladimir]

How do you tell if someone went for a quad and downgraded it vs someone attempted a triple?

By skaters planned programme judges had and by the difference of the attempt of 3S skater actually did in the same programme. I mean, skater did not stop the rotation like in the cases of popped jumps, she just didn't rotate enough, but the intent of trying to rotate 4S was clear. I mean, why judges call a 3F as 3Lze - because if they call it as 3F that whole jump can be invalidated.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Hm, i've never heard of that 'rule'. The point is that the base value of the downgraded jump is the same as a triple. But by calling it a triple the tech panel messed up not the score of that one jump, but the score of her other jumps (due to Zayak rule). Also, this is what ISU tech panel handbook is saying 'The TP must call the attempted jump even if it is clear that it is under-rotated or will be downgraded'.

Its the only way to tell if it's a quad attempt Vs triple attempt. I've done 3S nearly a quarter over just by accident before, but I don't think it should be called a quad.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

By skaters planned programme judges had and by the difference of the attempt of 3S skater actually did in the same programme. I mean, skater did not stop the rotation like in the cases of popped jumps, she just didn't rotated enough, but the intent of trying to rotate 4S was clear.

"The intent" is not quantifiable. We are trying to move away from subjectivity with technical not trying to get into it. I could benefit from throwing 4S on my PPC and doing a triple as then I can do an extra triple within my program.
Her takeoff was heavily skidded which is why she was tilted very sideways on the jump. A triple jump is a triple though, and the jump she performed was a triple, not a downgraded quad.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

"The intent" is not quantifiable. We are trying to move away from subjectivity with technical not trying to get into it. I could benefit from throwing 4S on my PPC and doing a triple as then I can do an extra triple within my program.
Her takeoff was heavily skidded which is why she was tilted very sideways on the jump. A triple jump is a triple though, and the jump she performed was a triple, not a downgraded quad.

But downgraded quad and a triple are the same jumps basically (in the ISU scoring system). Why would someone intentionally repeated 3 different types of triples when he/she knows it wouldn't count - there is no any logic in that intention (taking into account that her another attempt of that same jump as a triple scored more points as a successfully done jump, and that she could attempt 3Lo or 3T which she also cleanly done in the same programme, instead of Zayaking)