2020-21 US Women's Figure Skating

[katymay]

Bradie: Interesting sophisticated FS. Hope the jumps start looking better. Spins are wonderful as always.
Mariah: Just the opposite of Bradie's program-Mariah's program is trite, dancing queen segment is more suited to a 10 year old. Scores were pretty inflated for so many jump issues.
Amber: Strong and powerful, hit most of the jumps in the end-really a great start, and would love to see this be her year to be top 3.
Lindsay-music is too big for her, but she has all the parts and pieces-when she picks up the speed she will be something.
Audrey-does everything well, jumps, skating skills etc. And yet, I'm bored. I honestly would love to see Ashley Wagner work with her and bring out her personalty. Shake up the music a bit. Next year find a program like Hip Hip Chin Chin. Still though, I think she was underscored. (UR's?).

 

[mrrice]

So, did Bradie win the Free Skate?

 

[readernick]

So, did Bradie win the Free Skate?

Yes, in the FS it was Bradie, Amber, Mariah.

Top 3 Overall

1. Bradie
2. Mariah
3. Amber

Alysa was in 4th, which seems harsh. (and I have never been a fan)

 

[mrrice]

I am so proud of Bradie for pulling this off. I was getting the feeling that the association was ready to write her off.

 

[natsulian]

No matter how you look at it, apart from the fall on the 3A< and a few spin issues, Alysa's TES should have kept her score afloat. Alysa's TES should have been in the high 60s to low 70s and PCS in the high 50s for a total free skate score of >120. Lindsay was also criminally underscored. Her TES was miles ahead of everyone ahead of her, including Alysa. Even with low components, she should have scored >110. Without protocols, we will keep grasping for things in the dark so I hope scores become more streamlined as the season progresses.

My Top 7:
1. Bradie Tennell, 200'ish
2. Amber Glenn, >195
3. Mariah Bell, <195
4. Alysa Liu, >190
5. Audrey Shin, <185
6. Lindsay Thorngren, >180
7. Karen Chen, >180

 

[Amei]

That 3A was << and there must have been a ton of other under rotations for them to mark her down so low. She skated clean to the eye other than the fall on the opener. And it wasn’t as if Mariah and Bradie were such a revelation, so they must be sending her team a message that they aren’t going to overlook the unders anymore if she doesn’t have the big jumps locked down. She was tenths of a point ahead of Karen Chen who didn’t do combinations in the back half.

Amber was a big surprise to me, her jumps looked really clean and she seemed very confident. The program works well for her too. Second in the standings with this field will probably leave her feeling more motivated coming back from that orbital bone fracture.

I think it's good that they are hammering her on the under-rotations based on last season the unders are bad enough that international judges are going to call them.

 

[bytheriver]

I think it's good that they are hammering her on the under-rotations based on last season the unders are bad enough that international judges are going to call them.

I agree. It’s just got to be painful from the skater’s perspective. As someone said earlier in the thread, her jumps look about as rotated as they used to be. But they were rarely all rotated to begin with, almost always on a quarter, and when international judges had another option for a leader they almost always hammered her. Hence what happened at JW where she was below Usacheva.

I know there will never be consistency in judging, but the message they seem to be sending is “we know you have (or had) the big jumps, do them or we’ll phase you out by calling all of your unders and not everyone else’s.”

It also vaguely reminds me of when Mirai and Kimmie first started putting out the 3A, when they would balk and end up putting in a 2A they were judged more harshly and it never seemed fair. The 3A here by Alysa frankly wasn’t even close, it looked like what Bradie put out earlier this year. I just hope that if she never ends up having the big jumps again the USFS doesn’t punish her for having the big jumps before and then losing them.

 

[katymay]

No matter how you look at it, apart from the fall on the 3A< and a few spin issues, Alysa's TES should have kept her score afloat. Alysa's TES should have been in the high 60s to low 70s and PCS in the high 50s for a total free skate score of >120. Lindsay was also criminally underscored. Her TES was miles ahead of everyone ahead of her, including Alysa. Even with low components, she should have scored >110. Without protocols, we will keep grasping for things in the dark so I hope scores become more streamlined as the season progresses.

My Top 7:
1. Bradie Tennell, 200'ish
2. Amber Glenn, >195
3. Mariah Bell, <195
4. Alysa Liu, >190
5. Audrey Shin, <185
6. Lindsay Thorngren, >180
7. Karen Chen, >180

All of Bradie's jumps tonight looked two footed-of course the videos are deceptive. Liu , Shin and Thorngren looked clean to me-and of course Amber looked clearly clean. Strange judging, but not exactly transparent, so what can you do.

 

[Greengemmonster]

I am happy that Alysa tried the triple axle which means she is at least landing it. Figure skating is a harsh sport, once your body changes, they will kick you to the curb. Those scores for Alysa are ridiculous. She doesn't deserve it. I hope Alysa comes back stronger, and tell them who is the boss. I would be totally discourage to get what was put out there and how they hammered her like that. You know who the USFS is pushing this year for National Champion already.

Agree on all fronts!

I watched Alysa's program and by the end I was thinking "Wow they really want blood from that kid."

I'm not saying she should come first but that was an uncalled for hammering. She looked pretty clean and comfortable to me.

It's not like she's limping around and can't do a triple or anymore. Absolutely Ridiculous.

I wish we could see protocols so I can check for the alleged 1 billion under rotations Alysa must have had to be given that score.

 

[askaterfan]

All of Bradie's jumps tonight looked two footed-of course the videos are deceptive. Liu , Shin and Thorngren looked clean to me-and of course Amber looked clearly clean. Strange judging, but not exactly transparent, so what can you do.

None of Bradie's jumps were two footed, I even slowed down many after reading this comment and the free leg did not touch down on any I could see. She has a bit of a wide free leg on many of the jumps which may give the perception of a 2 footed jump, but it is not really 2 footed. Aside from that I counted 1-3 possible ur's from her in this freeskate, so really good work from her. She deserved this win, she was the only skater without any major errors. It was a great redemption for her from last week where people thought she was "over". I think she's gonna be okay this year, she always peaks later anyways.


As far as Mariah, please get rid of the ABBA fs!!! The music cuts are terrible and she is such a beautiful skater. Also, shocking to see her make so many errors because of how consistent she has become in the last year. Everyone has an off day though! Sp is stunning

 

[natsulian]

Based on the footage, Alysa either received a < or << on the 3A, 3Lz+3T<, and 3F+Eu+3S<. That should have dropped her TES to about 65-67. Add in about 58-59 PCS and you get somewhere around 125. I was stunned when I saw her score. Mind you, her combos last season were also on the quarter or <, so why the sudden change when even international panels didn't call them out. It's literally a game of, "If you had your ultra-C elements, we would've called those out and left your triples alone, but since you don't have them yet, best of luck!"

 

[oly2018]

I don't know, Alyssa's scored did decrease when she was scored internationally. She didn't win the jgpf because her unders were called.

 

[mrrice]

I think it's good that they are hammering her on the under-rotations based on last season the unders are bad enough that international judges are going to call them.

I agree. It's better that she finds out now than be shocked by UR's when she gets to big international events.

 

[natsulian]

I don't know, Alyssa's scored did decrease when she was scored internationally. She didn't win the jgpf because her unders were called.

They did decrease, but her triples from the Toe to Lutz were never called under. Of the under-rotation calls she received, only her 3A and 4Lz were dinged. The scoring is convoluted not only for the viewers but for the skater as well. However, I do think it is good that she's being called domestically so she can work on them.

 

[brakes]

I'm Russian ladies fan, but would like to give my positive 3 cents regarding US ladies:
1. Karen Chen is one of the great talents on top level in figure skating imho, with her humongous 3lutz, amazing spins and spirals, musicality and astistic features she would be up there at the top, if achieved top physical form and good coaching. Well, she could improve her competition readiness/nerves a bit as well.
2. Bradie Tenell has a great body for the sport and is absolutely workhorse dedicated athlete. Whenever you praise Russian ladies' work ethic, you should remember you got 22yo woman who's on that insane level of dedication. Thus, she'll always be in consideration for good placements if healthy.
3. Mariah Bell is steadily improving and she has perfect body for the sport. I bet many Russian 13-17yo phenoms willing to have long careers in the sport (we know not all do) would sell half of their medals for having Bell's figure at 24. I think her work ethic improved under Raf as well.

 

[Skatesocs]

Karen Chen is one of the great talents on top level in figure skating imho, with her humongous 3lutz, amazing spins and spirals, musicality and astistic features she would be up there at the top, if achieved top physical form.

This.

 

[haribobo]

I was finally able to watch the Ladies FS from ISP. Bradie did a nice job this time but I've seen her FS twice and I can't remember anything about it. Also she hasn't really upped her tech content since she came on the scene but just having what she does has been enough for a national medal, so kudos to her I guess! I do applaud her for practicing a 3ax and making a coaching change that she feels could help that. Whether it does help or not, we shall see.

I feel similarly about Alysa's program. I think Alysa is doing what she can here and I'm impressed to see her even getting close on 3-3's, but this change is just how it goes. We can't judge her for growing. For the last 2 years she has had almost an unfair advantage with being able to rotate those quads and 3axel so easily. I don't think USFS or judges were "propping her up" more than they would anyone else with that jumping prowess. Nor do I think they are "sending her a message" or "dumping her" now - she is just doing less and scoring less as a result. Sure her PCS were too high the last few years but so was Trusova, Zhou, so many others. PCS are almost completely meaningless, but occasionally they are applied fairly and that helps things. I don't think being senior as a 12 year old was a mistake- I think she properly recognized that she was capable of winning some national titles and making history so she did it. She may have to get used to finishing lower these days, but I hope she gets something out of these new coaches. If I'm her, I would maybe take some time to become a true artist and not really worry about competing. She could squeeze onto a junior world team but I wouldn't predict a medal again. Would be weird to see her season end at Nationals but then so could everyone's...

Mariah's program is starting to feel more complete and sensible- I think one less music cut would help. I totally see why they want to keep each song in there but it is such a strange mishmash of songs and the cuts are super jarring/not blended well. I think she sort of handed this to Bradie with all those jump errors but she did so well last time that I think she can afford it. Also wondering where her world ranking will go without a 3axel or quad.

AMBER GLENN! We are all so carefully trying to avoid getting too excited by her but man, with Alysa somewhat out of the way, she has really inched herself to be right in with Bradie and Mariah at the top. Second to Karen for top US short program score this season. Third to Mariah and Bradie for the top free skate score. Really nice expression in the free program and that 3axel in practice looks awesome. I'm so happy for her and to be honest she is our best skater right now.

Karen Chen- she could once again be National champion without changing much, but there were a few misses here. That said, she does hold the top SP score of the season at 73, so let's see how this goes. By no means is she to be counted out, she is too good.

Audrey Shin- huge congrats to her after missing out on Nationals 2020, now having the 4th highest SP and 8th highest FS, she has been super solid. She will need something to stand out from the crowd at some point, but good showings this year.

Paige looked somewhat anemic in the FS- I wonder if Titanic wears her out or if she was just tired that day, usually I find her more special to watch with her big jumps and charming expression. Pooja had a bit of an off comp here, not sure why but she's been competing a lot, maybe too much. Lindsay Thorngren, another who should join Alysa learning about creative dance and improving skating skills, has enough to finish 6th in the country but could do more than that one day.

Gracie- I am really encouraged by some added attention to detail in this FS- it feels more of a performance than last time. Also love that she upped the final lutz and flip from a single to a double. And that her SP video was much higher quality, nice program. These are steps in the right direction. I assume the first combo is intended to be 3z-3t. Then 3f, 3r, 2ax, 2ax, 3z, and 3f again. Perhaps one of those 2axels is meant to be in combo. She clearly has these jumps but just needs conditioning or something to hit them more consistently. Even though she has been scoring in the 80s, I don't see her being that far from top 5. Would need a 3axel or something to push her higher than that. Her skating is still really special and I could see this FS being a real wow moment if she can hit that 3loop going into the big sweeping musical moment. I wish more skaters would put effort into choosing original music that speaks to them and really tells a story with the choreo like this. I hope other skaters are paying attention and getting inspiration from this rather than just seeing her as "not doing as well as before". I'm interested to see how Skate America goes.

All in all, US ladies are not looking competitive with the top Russians but compete just fine with Japan and the rest. I am enjoying the fluidity in standings at the top right now. Remains to be seen how Young You and Eunsoo and others are stacking up.

 

[natsulian]

Currently, this is how I would rank our senior ladies:

Tier A
1. Mariah Bell - Beautiful extensions, stunning spins, and superb skating skills. Bell needs to work on consistency, upping her technical content to include two triple-triple combinations, and her team needs to somehow blend the jarring changes in music in her long program.
2. Bradie Tennell - Sharp, agile, fast, and an attacker, Tennell has all the ingredients to be a world-class. However, the pandemic and coaching change have truly taken a toll on her preparation (as with every other athlete) and it will take time for her to adjust. Nonetheless, if the progression from her first to second competitions is any indicator, she is adjusting very well.
3. Amber Glenn - Last season lit a spark in Glenn and ever since, she's been on a steady climb. Not only did she have a standing ovation moment at Nationals, she followed that up with two of her best performances at Four Continents and placed in the Top 10 in a contentious field. With a triple-Axel and newfound confidence, Glenn could shake things up.
4. Alysa Liu - Although without the awe-inspiring elements that catapulted her into history-maker status, Liu is still very much a technical powerhouse with backloaded triple-triples and a triple-Axel that seems to slowly be making a return. Once everything settles and she can be with her technical coach, I'm sure the Liu we see in January will be gunning for a third National title.

Tier B + C
5. Karen Chen - Chen has everything to be a world champion except for consistency. Her spins, technique, artistry, and skating skills are phenomenal and last season, we saw glimpses of what she was capable of. However, with the pandemic impeding on her training, she will need to regain that confidence if she wishes to contend for a medal.
6. Audrey Shin - Last year, she was offset by surgery, chronic under-rotation issues, and a competitive Sectionals that ultimately ended in her journey to Nationals coming to an end. However, she has consistently been scoring in the mid to upper 60s in her short program and her long program is coming together quite nicely. Should she add a triple-Axel or quad-Toe, she could be in medal hunting position.
7. Starr Andrews - Andrews' short was breathtaking and she has developed into a beautiful skater. However, her technical deficiencies hold her back from achieving better results. With a solid triple-Lutz and a more difficult triple-triple, she could start increasing her scoring range and stamp her name in the history books.
8. Lindsay Thorngren - Thorngren is as consistent as consistent gets but a few under-rotations seem to always pull her down. Furthermore, she needs to work on speed, skating skills, and with a little bit more maturity, she could develop into an awe-inspiring skater. There's something about her that is special and I hope she can foster that.
9. Pooja Kalyan - Her programs are delightful and so is her skating. Once she manages to find consistency, she will start going up the ranks. I cannot wait to see how she matures because her basics are lovely and she has a knack for musicality.

Honorable Mentions:
- Ting Cui, Hanna Harrell, Isabelle Inthisone, Calista Choi, Gabriella Izzo, and Emilia Murdock

 

[theharleyquinn]

Based on the footage, Alysa either received a < or << on the 3A, 3Lz+3T<, and 3F+Eu+3S<. That should have dropped her TES to about 65-67. Add in about 58-59 PCS and you get somewhere around 125. I was stunned when I saw her score. Mind you, her combos last season were also on the quarter or <, so why the sudden change when even international panels didn't call them out. It's literally a game of, "If you had your ultra-C elements, we would've called those out and left your triples alone, but since you don't have them yet, best of luck!"

I'm being cynical, but USFS seems a little confused on who they should be supporting right now since everything is in flux. It seems like Bradie and Mariah are getting a bit of a mea culpa for how Alysa was scored against them last year.

I'm not impressed by any of the programs I've seen from the U.S. ladies, to be honest. I hope we can see Ting soon.

 

[bytheriver]

I look at Karen and I see one of the most naturally gifted skaters out there. She has the artistic presence, strong skating skills, and pop in her jumps. If she could build her confidence and consistency she could be a #1 lady again.

Sure she doesn’t have Alysa’s rotating speed, but she has about 2-3 times as much height on some of those jumps and I see 3A and quad toe potential all over the place with her. If she could get it down it would be like Liza level showstopping with its power and presence.