2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[silveruskate]

No one is saying Evgenia's choreographer created or Daniil created this position. As @Skatesocs said, it is a known move. It's funny that the move is being done by one of their other skaters and wasn't in the program in test-skates and now it is. Anyways doesn't need mentioning so much, Kamila's program is looking much better in that video than test-skates. I'm happy for her.

 

[Vandevska]

I think her ankle always goes to bend outwards, but last year she used to tilt her body more in the direction of the rotation to avoid a lip. This year she’s going more straight into her flip, which causes a more obvious lip.

Hopefully she can correct it

 

[Fluture]

We had a similar discussion last year during Russian Nationals or Europeans - sorry, I don't remember the exact competition. But we all were again arguing how Anna got hammered despite her super clean and hard SP and then in the FP Aliona got a slightly inflated score despite sloppy StepSeq. At that time the girls were under the same coaching team but the situation was similar as the one yesterday? Where exactly is the Tutberidze bonus? I know, I know... its a more convenient argument since Sasha now changed the team and we can blame all her problems on Eteri..

I don‘t remember Anna ever being hammered in her scores, sorry. I disagreed with that argument at the time (I assume you are talking about Euros) and was one of the only ones. I disagree with it now. We can warm it up again and I can offer an entire analysis of why I didn‘t think Anna was underscored in that particular SP, if you want to. I don‘t see the need in that, though, as it has nothing to do with the current discussion but oh well.

What I did notice was that you didn‘t even attempt to answer to my arguments about Kamila‘s, Daria‘s and Anna‘s missing calls and instead dragged up some obscure potential underscoring for Anna last season? To make it look like what, I only hate Eteri and need a reason to criticize her? Okay then. I‘ve heard that one often enough, I don‘t find it particularly engaging anymore. Sorry.

 

[Vandevska]

I didn't claim that it is Plushenko's fault. I said I didn't know and I don't understand it. The whole Lip thing is odd to me.

But as Yuna Luna said, she had the Lip already last year. I am going to re-watch Sasha and see if I can spot it.

Nah I wasn't pointing to you. As I had quoted it, it was to Shayuki.

 

[Vandevska]

Omg you're really incredible aren't you. A technical error is a technical error, and they should all be called, otherwise why not just rename all jumps to just "jump".

Meh i need to find a better way of replying than spamming with multiple posts but oh well here we are...

I do not mind lip as much as flutz and flatedged lutz. Especially that jumping with outside edge is much harder than with flat or inside edge. I think flip is my least favourite jump right now

 

[lariko]

Well, Trusova’s story demonstrates the problem with scoring in figure skating. She now basically has every jumping element that exists in the sport, unlike anyone else atm. But given how much weight the soft component of the score carries, it is a black box of professional judgment to see why others outscore her.

If, indeed, the judging made a turn back to reward clean performances vs pushing the envelope, the scoring again will become more contentious because it is not based on who performs the most of the hardest elements that anyone can easily verify by looking at the simple chart and the window in the left corner during the skate, but by the mysterious PCS second score, that people can argue about till they turn blue in the face.

and that second score is decided behind the closed doors after the skate, hence easily become a subject of manipulation. A manipulation, that is impossible to call out and verify independently on high level, unless someone steps forward.

Not something I like, because it makes competitions boring to watch, lacking any kind of obvious logic.

 

[nussnacker]

Hopefully she can correct it

I think it will be an easy fix for Sasha. However her flip does look more effortless now.

 

[Scott512]

I hope this drive will be a little more calm and relaxed today no matter who lands on the podium.

I also get the feeling that some of the posters in here are starting to turn on the living legend that is TAT. It kind of makes you go hmmm. she is a legendary coach without question but I've never liked her as a color commentator or how political or power is. But I sense that more people are getting frustrated with this Legend and turning against her by some of the comments I read here in RLT.

 

[silveruskate]

I think it will be an easy fix for Sasha. However her flip does look more effortless now.

Sadly it isn't a Flip anymore so she should go back to less effortless and fix it.

 

[nussnacker]

Well, Trusova’s story demonstrates the problem with scoring in figure skating. She now basically has every jumping element that exists in the sport, unlike anyone else atm. But given how much weight the soft component of the score carries, it is a black box of professional judgment to see why others outscore her. If, indeed, the judging made a turn back to reward clean performances vs pushing the envelope, the scoring again will become contentious because it is not based on who performs the most of the hardest elements that anyone can easily verify by looking at charts, And the window on the left corner, but by the mysterious PCS second score, that people can argue about till they turn blue in the face. Not something I like, because it makes competitions boring to watch.

I’m fully on board with this. I want PCS to play a much lesser role, tbh. Those components are impossible to put into numbers objectively, and (don’t @ me on that) they’re not what makes figure skating a sport.
When I see 4-5 quads, it’s an athletic performance of unseen difficulty and quality. When I see masterful stroking, it doesn’t strike me as an athletic achievement. It’s aesthetically very pleasing and beautiful, but not something I would associate with the word athleticism. I would put quads above someone with better stroking any day.
I do enjoy beautiful skating, and I do think it’s difficult to put together and should be appreciated. But quads are quads.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I hope this drive will be a little more calm and relaxed today no matter who lands on the podium.

I also get the feeling that some of the posters in here are starting to turn on the living legend that is TAT. It kind of makes you go hmmm. she is a legendary coach without question but I've never liked her as a color commentator or how political or power is. But I sense that more people are getting frustrated with this Legend and turning against her by some of the comments I read here in RLT.

I used to think T Tarasova was OK, I even followed her on Instagram, but the spectacle of this morbidly obese woman telling young teens they're too fat, her treatment of Liza T and then to top it off the fact she advised Zhenya Med to do a Beillman and now the poor girl is in hospital to say nothing of how she turns against coaches like a spinning top (Eteri would watch her back if you ask me) I can barely bring myself to watch the Second Cup event because hearing her voice puts me in a rage. I think she should be be booted out of the sport, she's pure poison.

 

[lariko]

Not to mention she puts down the athletes who come from not-so-famous schools who came to compete not to win, particularly this year, when they basically forced their leet to compete with the lower level skaters. That’s just low and lowbrow.

 

[silveruskate]

I’m fully on board with this. I want PCS to play a much lesser role, tbh. Those components are impossible to put into numbers objectively, and (don’t @ me on that) they’re not what makes figure skating a sport.
When I see 4-5 quads, it’s an athletic performance of unseen difficulty and quality. When I see masterful stroking, it doesn’t strike me as an athletic achievement. It’s aesthetically very pleasing and beautiful, but not something I would associate with the word athleticism. I would put quads above someone with better stroking any day.
I do enjoy beautiful skating, and I do think it’s difficult to put together and should be appreciated. But quads are quads.

I like the technical side much more so maybe I'm biased but I agree that it's what I consider athletic achievement. The only addition I would make is if we are going down the road of focusing on the technical and objectivity then there should be much more nitpicking on take-off edges, prerotation, toe-pick assistance, height, distance, jump landings the whole of it. And same with spins, how many turns are done, travel, speed etc. All of this can differentiate the skaters.

 

[lariko]

I’m fully on board with this. I want PCS to play a much lesser role, tbh. Those components are impossible to put into numbers objectively, and (don’t @ me on that) they’re not what makes figure skating a sport.
When I see 4-5 quads, it’s an athletic performance of unseen difficulty and quality. When I see masterful stroking, it doesn’t strike me as an athletic achievement. It’s aesthetically very pleasing and beautiful, but not something I would associate with the word athleticism. I would put quads above someone with better stroking any day.
I do enjoy beautiful skating, and I do think it’s difficult to put together and should be appreciated. But quads are quads.

Yup. Without maximally transparent, easy to understand, easy to calculate, scoring the point of it being a competition is moot. It will all be like ice dance.

 

[Scott512]

I used to think T Tarasova was OK, I even followed her on Instagram, but the spectacle of this morbidly obese woman telling young teens they're too fat, her treatment of Liza T and then to top it off the fact she advised Zhenya Med to do a Beillman and now the poor girl is in hospital to say nothing of how she turns against coaches like a spinning top (Eteri would watch her back if you ask me) I can barely bring myself to watch the Second Cup event because hearing her voice puts me in a rage. I think she should be be booted out of the sport, she's pure poison.

I can't disagree with what you said but you are very harsh towards TAT.

But it is ironic that she's criticizing others for their weight when these girls are red thin for th ed most part.

But don't let her ruin the competition for you because she does analysis.

 

[yume]

I'm surprised about all this vitriol throwed on Tarasova. She does those things since years but that didn't seem to bother many people. Especially when she was throwing shade on some team and was supporting some skater.

 

[chasingneverland]

Lol. No. They want the exact opposites, usually. The problem is that currently, only a few selected skaters get this kind of special treatment. How many times does it need to be repeated? In isolation, Sasha‘s score is fine - it is fair (actually even a bit overscored). The problem lies with the scores of the others, mainly Tutberidze girls, Kamila and Daria and at the other event, Anna.

Sasha deserved the lower GOE for her spins, she deserved that ! call on her flip. At the same time, Daria and Kamila had mistakes too, NONE of which were called. There was no ! call for Daria‘s lutz, no reduced GOE for the weird rhythm and change of landing edge in Kamila‘s combo. At the last event, Anna got sky high GOE for a combination with a possible UR, scratchy landing and obvious edge issues on the lutz.

We all know domestic scores are usually inflated through the roof. In Russia, the US, even the smaller feds (well not so much in Japan). So the issue is not really about correct scoring, which is not to be expected at domestic events, it is about CONSISTENT calling. Meaning - you call EVERYONE‘s mistakes equally, no matter who they‘re coached by or how many medals they have won in the past. And I do realise that reputation judging was always a thing but in the past, they at least tried (with a few exceptions) to make their preferences a little more subtle.

THIS is the problem. If they called everyone consistently and didn‘t turn a blind eye to Tutberidze skaters, we would not be having this discussion. Kamila and Daria would still lead and rightly so, but the difference would be smaller and much more accurate of reality.

Well, I think that's the issue. People are upset when their skater doesn't get the calls. But people do the same as the federations - they're mysteriously not upset when their skater doesn't. And let's wait until later to see what happens when Sasha does skate cleanly - my guess is she will get very favourable skating - in fact she has in the past.

 

[moonkat]

I'm surprised about all this vitriol throwed on Tarasova. She does those things since years but that didn't seem to bother many people. Especially when she was throwing shade on some team and was supporting some skater.

Who knows? Maybe she's was on the side of the skater most people favored.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

FP run throughs from training session yesterday.

Sasha:


Kamila:


Daria:

Sasha looks in good shape.

Kamila looks slow, her jumps looked terrible and her moves are recycled from Zhenya's Alegria and Alina's Carmen. She looks like a totally different skater compared to yesterday. Is that because of the costume?

Usacheva was the best yesterday and also in this practice video in terms of quality and presentation.

Sasha, however, was the best jumper. And she would probably win this FS based on these videos.

 

[Fluture]

Kamila looks slow, her jumps looked terrible

??? There was only one jump in the Kamila video, or did I miss anything?

Have to agree about the costumes, though. I’ve always loved Ryabenko‘s costume but so far they‘ve been a miss for me this season. (I‘m assuming it’s her dresses?)

Anyway, for today I‘m rooting for Sasha to win Silver. Gold is out of the question unless something serious happens and I don‘t want to wish that on Kamila, the judging is not her fault. Also, I want Talalaikina to do better. And for Stasya to stay in the top 5.