2020-21 Russian Pairs' figure skating

[Gia_Sesshoumaru]

Ksenia Akanteva / Valerii Kolosev have withdrawn from Nationals, and will not be replaced

Федерация фигурного катания на коньках России

Официальный сайт Федерации фигурного катания на коньках России. Новости, интервью, календарь и результаты соревнований, состав сборной команды.

www.fsrussia.ru

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

My only comment is Rylov would have to be incredibly stupid to leave Panfilova for anyone. That girl is special! She is the driving force behind that team. Her posture, landings, positions in lifts are really unparelled in a junior girl of her age. All respect to Rylov (who is a great skater), but he is nothing without that amazing young lady.

I know this was a long while ago, but I revisit because I was watching some junior pairs from 2016, and I really wonder how things would be now had Sopot not dumped Borisova. Sopot was one of the strongest and most skilled guys out there, and now he joins the stories of "what could've been." Regardless, Youth Olympic champion is nothing to look down upon, and I hope Rylov will not follow in the footsteps of Sopot, because they are eerily similar and Poluianova/Sopot never quite worked out either.

(before you all come at me, I am NOT calling Sopot stupid. He was a young boy in a tough situation, and probably couldn't predict the future.)

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Ksenia Akanteva / Valerii Kolosev have withdrawn from Nationals, and will not be replaced

Федерация фигурного катания на коньках России

Официальный сайт Федерации фигурного катания на коньках России. Новости, интервью, календарь и результаты соревнований, состав сборной команды.

www.fsrussia.ru

I'm so sad I was really rooting for them. Is there a reason? Or just his knee is in too much pain?

I wonder why they can't replace them. I know only 12 teams competed on the Russian Cup, but aren't there a few that got pushed out for B/K T/M and P/R? Alykhova/Bezborodko? Vasilieva/Volodin? (Are they still a thing)? If not I'm down for telling Kostiukovich/Briukhanov to get a senior program and get to Chelyabinsk ASAP

 

[Gia_Sesshoumaru]

I'm so sad I was really rooting for them. Is there a reason? Or just his knee is in too much pain?

I wonder why they can't replace them. I know only 12 teams competed on the Russian Cup, but aren't there a few that got pushed out for B/K T/M and P/R? Alykhova/Bezborodko? Vasilieva/Volodin? (Are they still a thing)? If not I'm down for telling Kostiukovich/Briukhanov to get a senior program and get to Chelyabinsk ASAP

I have no idea. I haven't been able to find anything, but if he's been injured, I would bet that's the reason. There were no alternates stated, so I guess under their rules, there is no one to replace them.

 

[hanca]

I know this was a long while ago, but I revisit because I was watching some junior pairs from 2016, and I really wonder how things would be now had Sopot not dumped Borisova. Sopot was one of the strongest and most skilled guys out there, and now he joins the stories of "what could've been." Regardless, Youth Olympic champion is nothing to look down upon, and I hope Rylov will not follow in the footsteps of Sopot, because they are eerily similar and Poluianova/Sopot never quite worked out either.

(before you all come at me, I am NOT calling Sopot stupid. He was a young boy in a tough situation, and probably couldn't predict the future.)

Sopot did not have strong triples. He might have been more consistent than Borisova was in their last season because Borisova was dealing with the illness she had during the off season (she came back too soon), but he wasn’t a particularly strong jumper either. And to compare Panfilova/Rylov to Poluyanova/Sopot or to Borisova/Sopot is ridiculous. Sopot managed to get to the top of junior pairs with Borisova (3rd junior worlds, 1st youth Olympics and 1sr JGPF) but it was in times when junior pair skating was not as competitive and not as advanced as it is now. At that time having doubles were often quite enough. Panfilova/Rylov managed to win all their junior competitions at times when they were competing against pairs who did 2-3 triples in their FS. That’s a huge jump in the level on which Sopot was competing, and on which Panfilova/Rylov compete. I think with the current level of Russian juniors, Borisova/Sopot (and Poluyanova/Sopot) would be considered lucky if they qualified for junior nationals (if they were the same age as they were at their strongest season and skated at the same level as they did that time).

Whether Sopot would be successful if they continued skating, one never knows. He would need to work a lot on his jumps, and probably change partners, have neither Borisova nor Poluyanova. Poluyanova got too tall, Borisova had the jump issue. Not sure if that would be fixable or not. Maybe, with someone like Kudriavtseva or Labazina or Kostiukovich, he could be successful. But that’s a lot of maybes.

 

[hanca]

I'm so sad I was really rooting for them. Is there a reason? Or just his knee is in too much pain?

I wonder why they can't replace them. I know only 12 teams competed on the Russian Cup, but aren't there a few that got pushed out for B/K T/M and P/R? Alykhova/Bezborodko? Vasilieva/Volodin? (Are they still a thing)? If not I'm down for telling Kostiukovich/Briukhanov to get a senior program and get to Chelyabinsk ASAP

Alykhova/Bezborodko are still junior eligible. If they got pushed into senior nationals, they could also push someone out of junior nationals because of how the qualifying process is worded. And quite honestly, I don’t think they deserve to skate in senior nationals. Based on how they skated at both Russian cup events, they shouldn’t have been in seniors. And if they really insist on being there, they should be happy with not qualifying for the senior nationals. Yes, I would rather send to senior nationals some of the top qualifiers from junior nationals.

 

[gordana]

Not sure if that would be fixable or not.

Rather not than fixable. Borisova had a try-out with Deputat after his splitting with Bazarova, and the team wasn't approved by Vasiliev or Moskvina because of Borisova's jump inconsitency.

 

[hanca]

Rather not than fixable. Borisova had a try-out with Deputat after his splitting with Bazarova, and the team wasn't approved by Vasiliev or Moskvina because of Borisova's jump inconsitency.

That’s what I thought, but I didn’t want to be too negative, considering that eterilouisvuitton was wondering whether Sopot should have stayed with her. In my view, at present times with the current level of competition, Sopot would have no chance with either Borisova or Poluyanova unless he sorted his own jumps, so it didn’t really matter. He wanted to skate with his girlfriend (Poluyanova) so he switched. She then grew up and that was the end of any competitive chances, but with Borisova it wouldn’t have been much better. Maybe it is a waste of his talent, but I strongly believe a person should be able to choose what he wants to do rather than what he should do. If he felt like going on a cruise ship and earn some money with travelling and seeing the world, then the investment in his skating career (time, effort and money) were not wasted.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

That’s what I thought, but I didn’t want to be too negative, considering that eterilouisvuitton was wondering whether Sopot should have stayed with her. In my view, at present times with the current level of competition, Sopot would have no chance with either Borisova or Poluyanova unless he sorted his own jumps, so it didn’t really matter. He wanted to skate with his girlfriend (Poluyanova) so he switched. She then grew up and that was the end of any competitive chances, but with Borisova it wouldn’t have been much better. Maybe it is a waste of his talent, but I strongly believe a person should be able to choose what he wants to do rather than what he should do. If he felt like going on a cruise ship and earn some money with travelling and seeing the world, then the investment in his skating career (time, effort and money) were not wasted.

I never said that he made the wrong choice. Of course some life circumstances require certain decisions, and I didn't say that he was wrong for dumping Borisova. Maybe wrong in the manner in which he did it, but life is brutal and we don't really know how he did it.

I just meant from a competitive point of view, he would've been much better with Borisova. As you noted earlier, Panfilova/Rylov with their 2A, 2A+eu+2S and 2Sfall were able to beat Kadyrova/Balchenko with their 3F, 3T, and 3S+eu+3S at Rostelecom. Borisova/Sopot had divine pair elements. Of course Sopot would have realized his real potential with a girl who could do pairs element and jumps. Kostiukovich/Sopot would've made an awkward height difference, even after Polya's puberty. I don't know too much about the other names you mentioned, I heard that Kudriavtseva outgrew Spiridonov who is quite a bit shorter than Sopot, so maybe she would have been a good option. I saw in Poluianova/Sopot's FF that Liza Zhuk was brought up, not sure who she is or what qualities she possessed. I'm actually rather surprised that Mishina/Sopot was never discussed. I actually think someone like Zabiiako or a singles girl would have been a good option. Though of course forming a good pair is a lot more complicated than looking at qualities on paper.

And as for the Borisova/Sopot-Panfilova/Rylov comparison, I don't see why they can't be compared. Borisova and Panfilova are the same height, the most beautiful lift positions, greatest throws and twists, pairs elements were spectacular. Wonderfully artistic, but in a subtle and elegant way. But the problem came at the jumping. Inconsistent and without triples. Borisova tried at 3T, Panfilova at 3S, but neither successful yet, and neither will ever be a strong jumper. Sopot and Rylov are quite similar too. Maybe Sopot is quite a bit taller than Rylov, but in terms of skating, I find them both to be fast and elegant, but strong. Borisova and Panfilova were so beautiful as skaters, that you often found their partners standing there and holding them up, without doing any interesting things themselves, even if they were beautiful skaters themselves. Both Sopot and Rylov were great throwers, great at twists, and although they could do triple jumps, they aren't the best jumpers. I notice they even have a similar way of jumping - crunching down low before going into it, and then rotating slightly slowly in the air. Perhaps Sopot rotated better, but was more inconsistent on the landing because extra height makes it a lot harder. And of course both won JGPF 4 years apart, and YOG 4 years apart. I sure hope that Panfilova/Rylov don't meet the same fate as Borisova/Sopot, who I also loved.

There is the difference between their field, but I will argue against the point about the jumping not being required. Sure, Panfilova/Rylov ere unbeaten in their last season over Mukhametzianova/Mironov with their 3Lz and 3F+2T+2T, over Akhanteva/Kolesov with their sometimes-there 3S and 3T, over Artemeva/Nazarychev with their 2A+eu+3S and 3T. And while jumping wasn't as competitive back in 2016 with Borisova/Sopot, they never had an undefeated season. No doubt they had the best pair elements in their day, but it wasn't uncommon that by the time it was clear that she couldn't get her 3T or even 2A, they would get beaten by Duskova/Bidar with their triples, and by Mishina/Mirzoev (3T+3T+2T attempts?) Overall had Sopot been able to/chosen to continue competing, I think he could've had a future. There are always too many girls and not enough guys around. Of course the cruise ships require less gruelling training and give more money than the reserve national team, but there would've been some girls for him. Not saying they all would've worked out, but he probably could've gotten another partner one way or another. Unfortuantely this is sport, and not every stunning athlete makes it in the end. Well, if you consider YOG champion "not making it." But what I mean is that he could've gone a lot further, had things worked out differently. Perhaps had Katia not had puberty and meningitis at the same time, her triples would have gotten better. There are a lot of "what ifs." And the fact that of the top 5 teams in 2016, only 1 of them survived to the senior level, and only half are still skating (which is quite a large amount everything considered). And by these teams, I'm referring to Atakhanova/Spiridonov, Ustimkina/Volodin, Borisova/Sopot, Boikova/Kozlovskii, and Mishina/Mirzoev

 

[hanca]

Just to clarify, I don’t think anyone in this thread is saying that jumps are not needed. Of course they are needed. But Panfilova/Rylov have such a high quality of the rest of their elements, that they can accumulate some extra points to make up the difference between double jumps they are doing and triple jumps someone else is doing. I have read so many people arguing that Panfilova/Rylov achieved their ceiling, because the other elements are as high as they can get and she is unable to learn the jumps. People are arguing that pairs like Mukhametzianova/Mironov, who had decent triples, would have much easier job to increase the quality of their other elements and then they will be on top. However, as this season has shown, even pairs who had strong triples can suddenly start struggling with their triples (like M/M this season). Only time will show whether they will manage to get the jumps back. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t place in top six at the nationals, which will mean that they will be pushed out the national team. And if it was so easy to just get the elements to the quality Panfilova/Rylov have, everyone would be doing it and P/R wouldn’t stand out anyhow. The reason everyone doesn’t do it is because it is possibly as hard as it is for Panfilova to learn the triple jumps. So when comparing Borisova/Sopot to Panfilova/Rylov, both pairs did struggle with jumps, but B/S never had such a high quality of all other elements and therefore they would not be able to make up the points they lost on jumps.

 

[hanca]

I don't know too much about the other names you mentioned, I heard that Kudriavtseva outgrew Spiridonov who is quite a bit shorter than Sopot, so maybe she would have been a good option. I saw in Poluianova/Sopot's FF that Liza Zhuk was brought up, not sure who she is or what qualities she possessed. I'm actually rather surprised that Mishina/Sopot was never discussed. I actually think someone like Zabiiako or a singles girl would have been a good option. Though of course forming a good pair is a lot more complicated than looking at qualities on paper.

There are a lot of "what ifs." And the fact that of the top 5 teams in 2016, only 1 of them survived to the senior level, and only half are still skating (which is quite a large amount everything considered). And by these teams, I'm referring to Atakhanova/Spiridonov, Ustimkina/Volodin, Borisova/Sopot, Boikova/Kozlovskii, and Mishina/Mirzoev

One pair out of five, it seems to me a reasonable ratio. It is the same in other countries. Look who skated at the same time and is not there any more. There used to be a pretty decent Ukrainian pair (split up and retired), Duskova/Bidar also split up, she already retired because of injuries and he still skates but struggles (and he was junior world champion)... it is not only the Russians. It is normal for junior pairs to split up/change partners, some of them decide not to continue, some start struggling. From those five pairs, each of them has some reason for what happened with their careers.

Atakhanova was injured, retired because she did not have any other choice.
Spiridonov struggles because he is quite short for a male pair skater. That limits his choice of new partners. Kudriavtseva was not a bad pair skater, she was pretty decent, but she missed a season for injury and after that she just wasn’t landing triple throws. She had decent side by side triples, but I don’t recall a competition where she would land all her triple throws clean. She doubles and it is expensive. (Whether Kudriavtseva outgrew Spiridonov, I am not sure. There won’t be a huge size difference, but I don’t think there is any smaller one than some other team have or had, for example Vislobokova/Ialin, Balabanova/Sviatchenko, Savchenko/Szolkowy, Sui/Han...)

Ustimkina got too tall for pairs.
Volodin was just unlucky with his partners. He did not find the right match yet.

Borisova struggled with jumps. Maybe as a consequence of her meningitis and puberty together.
Sopot prefered to skate with his girlfriend (Poluyanova) and refused to switch partners when Poluyanova got too tall.

Mishina is still competing.
Mirzoev got injured-career ending injury. Being too short did not help with his choice of partners either.

Boikova/Kozlovski still competing.

If you look at this, a lot of it you could foresee. Not who will get injured, but a certain percentage of skaters (even those who are very successful in juniors) have always retired. From men Pitkeev, from ladies Proklova, Lozko, Tarakanova was also very close to retiring before this season started, as per her interview. Skaters get injured, or skaters outgrow their skating body and it is impossible to do the elements with bigger bodies, pair guys can also be quite short and when the girl starts her puberty, they struggle to do the elements (Spiridonov, Mirzoev, Ialin).

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

I did not say that it was abnormal, I just thought that it was interesting that of the top 5 pair teams in Russia, where there are so many who walk on this path to elite skating, only one survived as a pair to the top level. And I'm surprised that they survived honestly - their height difference isn't great either and there were many bumps in the road. But I'm glad that they survived. Just goes to show that even one thing going wrong can ruin a career. And of course this is not just Russia, elite sports are just as demanding in other places.

I wonder if Volodin will continue to skate. He probably won't have trouble finding a girl who wants to skate with him, the trouble will come at finding a girl of a good size, age, jumps, health, experience in pairs, and personality. Spiridonov will have more trouble, with his height and lack of national team status. I saw on allskaters that he is with Maria Pavlova, who came from singles a few years ago. But then he was in a recent competition with Kudriavtseva f I am not mistaken?

I think the one that survived against all odds is Mishina. I tried to imagine myself witnessing the split of MiMi, and I did not see great prospects for either. He was short, aging out of juniors, and had injuries that may or may not have caused ridiculous weight requirements. She is a pairs girl, and that says it in itself: there are way too many girls, and not enough boys. She's also rather tall and curvaceuos for a pairs skater, it is extremely difficult for a curvaceous girl to maintain fitness and weight throughout puberty and beyond. Sometimes, unhealthy methods must be used. It helped that she was strong, young, and had good jumps, but in the end that girl willed it out of herself: she survived the breakup of a couple that took silver at the junior worlds, and against all odds, returned two years later, and took gold. Everyone who talked about her said that she is a fighter, that she will endure everything that is necessary to win. And it seems that Kostiukovich will repeat the feat. Perhaps Akhanteva will too if Akhanteva/Kolesov is to fall apart. (I really hope not)

You mentioning everything that made the last generation struggle/retire is interesting to me. I can look at this generation and see some things. Though Visobokova/Ialin, Balabanova/Sviatchenko, Sui/Han, these height differences are all exceptions to the norm.

 

[Rina RUS]

They turned “Ice Age” into Olympics this year
Yet the main thing… it seems to me these videos can cheer someone up

Khokhlova and Chepurchenko
(sorry that something is wrong with the video in the beginning, later it works well)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDxREcADyM

Kuzmina and Enbert

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

2020 generation juniors:

Kostiukovich/Briukhanov: She is tiny and curvaceous, doesn't have solid triples. But spectacular at pairs elements, artistry, and clearly will fight for anything she wants. He is a good jumper, extremely strong and will only grow stronger as he finishes puberty. He's pretty tall too, and though he doesn't have the greatest artistry or skating skills, he clearly has a talent for pairs elements. In 18 months he went from a little singles boy to winning medals on the Russian cup in pairs. In 24 months, he could do a quad twist. I don't see a great future for Ialin or Vislobokova, but I guess we will see.

Artemeva/Nazarychev: Her jumps don't look like they will sustain puberty, same with throws. The team may not last, despite their great height difference. She's incredibly strong and may be able to find another partner if she can restore her triples after puberty. Him on the other hand, probably same but not sure he will have another partner of the same quality or chemistry.

Panfilova/Rylov: Originally was afraid that she would outgrow him, but she's almost 18 now. If they are to break up, that would cause a problem. She cannot jump well, and relies heavily on him for throws and twists. He is not tall for a pairs skater, and though he is strong and has good elements, he is not a great jumper either.

Mukhametzianova/Mironov: The team may last, her jumps may not. If she can restore her 3Lz and 3F, then her jumps and size can be in demand for guys who want to stand out with jumps. His height will make things harder, but he has good pairs elements and jumps too.

Akhanteva/Kolesov: If they maintain like this, they may last due to their long relationship and small age difference. If she grows any more, it's over. He could dump her at any moment if he desired, but they seem to not want to fix anything that isn't broken outright.

Just to clarify, I don’t think anyone in this thread is saying that jumps are not needed. Of course they are needed. But Panfilova/Rylov have such a high quality of the rest of their elements, that they can accumulate some extra points to make up the difference between double jumps they are doing and triple jumps someone else is doing. I have read so many people arguing that Panfilova/Rylov achieved their ceiling, because the other elements are as high as they can get and she is unable to learn the jumps. People are arguing that pairs like Mukhametzianova/Mironov, who had decent triples, would have much easier job to increase the quality of their other elements and then they will be on top. However, as this season has shown, even pairs who had strong triples can suddenly start struggling with their triples (like M/M this season). Only time will show whether they will manage to get the jumps back. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t place in top six at the nationals, which will mean that they will be pushed out the national team. And if it was so easy to just get the elements to the quality Panfilova/Rylov have, everyone would be doing it and P/R wouldn’t stand out anyhow. The reason everyone doesn’t do it is because it is possibly as hard as it is for Panfilova to learn the triple jumps. So when comparing Borisova/Sopot to Panfilova/Rylov, both pairs did struggle with jumps, but B/S never had such a high quality of all other elements and therefore they would not be able to make up the points they lost on jumps.

Maybe not as wowing as Panfilova/Rylov because they didn't have the airy quality of Panfilova and Sopot was a lot more robust than Rylov, but Sopot's throws, even with Poluianova, were so stunning. Their landings were better than Panfilova/Rlov, even if their height wasn't as great. Their twist was excellent, and I wouldn't say that their lifts and spins were any worse. It just became such a problem because as time passed, Katia could not even land a 2A decently.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Really random but I noticed while looking through instagram that the little dollie program that Vasilieva/Volodin did for their free is a recycled version of the same program for Atakhanova/Volodin

 

[gsk8]

They turned “Ice Age” into Olympics this year

I'm actually looking for someone who can read Russian to help with adding links in the Media section for Ice Age! PM me if anyone is interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDxREcADyM

Kuzmina and Enbert

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I never tire of this music. I watched this twice and really liked how Kuzmina presented, but then she's an actress Tarasova had a lot to say on this performance.

 

[hanca]

2020 generation juniors:

Kostiukovich/Briukhanov: She is tiny and curvaceous, doesn't have solid triples. But spectacular at pairs elements, artistry, and clearly will fight for anything she wants. He is a good jumper, extremely strong and will only grow stronger as he finishes puberty. He's pretty tall too, and though he doesn't have the greatest artistry or skating skills, he clearly has a talent for pairs elements. In 18 months he went from a little singles boy to winning medals on the Russian cup in pairs. In 24 months, he could do a quad twist. I don't see a great future for Ialin or Vislobokova, but I guess we will see.

Artemeva/Nazarychev: Her jumps don't look like they will sustain puberty, same with throws. The team may not last, despite their great height difference. She's incredibly strong and may be able to find another partner if she can restore her triples after puberty. Him on the other hand, probably same but not sure he will have another partner of the same quality or chemistry.

Panfilova/Rylov: Originally was afraid that she would outgrow him, but she's almost 18 now. If they are to break up, that would cause a problem. She cannot jump well, and relies heavily on him for throws and twists. He is not tall for a pairs skater, and though he is strong and has good elements, he is not a great jumper either.

Mukhametzianova/Mironov: The team may last, her jumps may not. If she can restore her 3Lz and 3F, then her jumps and size can be in demand for guys who want to stand out with jumps. His height will make things harder, but he has good pairs elements and jumps too.

Akhanteva/Kolesov: If they maintain like this, they may last due to their long relationship and small age difference. If she grows any more, it's over. He could dump her at any moment if he desired, but they seem to not want to fix anything that isn't broken outright.


Maybe not as wowing as Panfilova/Rylov because they didn't have the airy quality of Panfilova and Sopot was a lot more robust than Rylov, but Sopot's throws, even with Poluianova, were so stunning. Their landings were better than Panfilova/Rlov, even if their height wasn't as great. Their twist was excellent, and I wouldn't say that their lifts and spins were any worse. It just became such a problem because as time passed, Katia could not even land a 2A decently.

Panfilova/Rylov are not juniors any more, so I don’t think they belong on your list if you called it juniors of this season.
Your list is missing Mukhortova/Yevgeniev, who have been much stronger than a half of the list you named. They have been the second strongest pair who qualified to the junior nationals through the Russian junior cups. They are also on the national team, so you shouldn’t ignore them.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Panfilova/Rylov are not juniors any more, so I don’t think they belong on your list if you called it juniors of this season.
Your list is missing Mukhortova/Yevgeniev, who have been much stronger than a half of the list you named. They have been the second strongest pair who qualified to the junior nationals through the Russian junior cups. They are also on the national team, so you shouldn’t ignore them.

Sorry, as I was tired, did not remember all the teams. I just meant all the younger teams, not sure if Mishki and Kisiki would count in that category anymore. For Mukhortova/Evgeniev, he is not too tall but she is very short too, so there probably won't be many problems. Their elements seem rather stable. I heard that she was very promising in singles a few years ago, wonder why she came to pairs.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

By the way, are Vislobokova/Ialin and Vasilieva/Volodin still together? I think they both have potential but there has been some speculation lately.

 

[nussnacker]

P/R are planing a triple jump in their FS?

Честь региона на Чемпионате России по фигурному катанию будут защищать три пермские пары | Вести-Пермь

Сразу три спортивные пары фигуристов из Перми будут защищать честь Прикамья на Чемпионате России, который стартует 24 декабря в Челябинске. Юлия Артемьева и Михаил Назарычев, Ясмина Кадырова и Иван Бальченко, а также признанные фавориты Аполлинария Панфилова и Дмитрий Рылов являются...

vesti-perm.ru

this article says that they finally have finished working on a triple and are planning to include it in their FS.