2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Blades of Passion]

However, very often I see people labeled as haters just because they disagree.

Thank you.

People who keep arguing so fervently against any kind of pushback seem to be forgetting that nobody is saying Shcherbakova should have lost the competition overall. She was just very overscored. I even think her LP was quite magical and it's something I've watched several times, not out of obligation for a comparative analysis, but because I actually wanted to anyway. Yet, she was still overscored, in an apparent example of corrupt judging. These dualities exist.

 

[Dawn825]

Saying "Anna's lutz is on the wrong edge" is not the same as saying "I hate Anna because her lutz is on the wrong edge". It's a sport, critiquing technique is not the same as hating a person. It's fine if people disagree, but we're talking about her feet, not her worth as a person. Wanting a skater to correct a mistake means you appreciate their potential, it doesn't mean that you think if they're not perfect then they're trash.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I've never seen Anna Shcherbakova gloating and I'd rarely seen an athlete as self-critical as her.
When you make up arguments, choose less silly, please.

I am searching for this English language interview of hers where is bragging about her two quad lutzes. I watched it last year. Can not find it now. But it is so obvious how proud she is there.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

This Moscow tournament is missing students from Panova, I think?

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Saying "Anna's lutz is on the wrong edge" is not the same as saying "I hate Anna because her lutz is on the wrong edge". It's a sport, critiquing technique is not the same as hating a person. It's fine if people disagree, but we're talking about her feet, not her worth as a person. Wanting a skater to correct a mistake means you appreciate their potential, it doesn't mean that you think if they're not perfect then they're trash.

THIS!!!!!!!! Yes, please, shout it from the rooftops!!!!

 

[flanker]

Saying "Anna's lutz is on the wrong edge" is not the same as saying "I hate Anna because her lutz is on the wrong edge". It's a sport, critiquing technique is not the same as hating a person. It's fine if people disagree, but we're talking about her feet, not her worth as a person. Wanting a skater to correct a mistake means you appreciate their potential, it doesn't mean that you think if they're not perfect then they're trash.

Figure skating is a sport, people are fans of particular skaters and behave according to it. If they for instance insist on Anna's alleged wrong edge when she clearly has not, esp. when it is accompanied with the expressions like "flutz queen", "her score is a joke" or "OVERSCORED", it's as much about "appreciating of her potential" as when football fans of Liverpool shout "offside", "foul", "hand" about the actions of Manchester no matter whether it truly was that or not.

So, I take all those claims the same way as the usual sport fans comments. It doesn't have to be always directly pure hate, but it's usually not about appreciating.

 

[nussnacker]

I suddenly remembered this video of Anna.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

She says she knows there’s a difference between hurtful commentary and constructive criticism, she‘s aware of her imperfections and agrees with people who point it out.

Russian ladies in general are very self critical and strive for perfection all the time, and Anna also seems like a rather intelligent girl.

 

[Shayuki]

Saying "Anna's lutz is on the wrong edge" is not the same as saying "I hate Anna because her lutz is on the wrong edge". It's a sport, critiquing technique is not the same as hating a person. It's fine if people disagree, but we're talking about her feet, not her worth as a person. Wanting a skater to correct a mistake means you appreciate their potential, it doesn't mean that you think if they're not perfect then they're trash.

Saying "Anna's Lutz is on the wrong edge" - an incorrect statement - is different from complaining about her Lutz being wrong edge for 365 days a year, 10 posts a day.

You don't have to say "I hate x" to hate them. I've hated plenty of things, I've never had to say "I hate x" to confirm it, that's ridiculous.

 

[nussnacker]

Aliona Prineva looks like she could be Sasha‘s little sister, the resemblance is so striking!

Here’s a photo of Prineva, if anyone’s curious what she looks like.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKYOGtaBmkP/

 

[Shayuki]

No one is telling you to close your eyes. You, thyself(!), have decided to conveniently close your eyes and ignore the overscorings of Sasha during Rostelecom, or Aliona, or plenty of Canadian, American and even some Japanese skaters.
You're so fixated on Anna and Kamila and singling them out to push your agenda that there is "Eteri bonus"?!

It's an interesting narrative. But when following Russian domestic competitions, we can actually see that the bonus is a CSKA bonus there, in fact Sambo-70 skaters tend to receive relatively low scores. This was the case with Anna Shcherbakova before her junior debut, etc.

These skaters will then do well internationally, and the international scores will trickle down to domestic competitions. Obviously it'd be odd to score skaters low when they get scored much higher internationally. That actually is exactly what I predicted would happen with Anna's scoring. When people saw her internationally, her scores would skyrocket.

Now, the exception to this is Kamila Valieva, who received high scores even domestically, even before her international debut. Rather than considering it some conspiracy, how about just accepting that she simply is very good at PCS categories and scores highly due to that? Even when she was skating for Moskvich she scored extremely high in PCS. But I guess people don't think skaters exist until their junior debuts or something.

 

[flanker]

One more challenge:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKZFL4mp8R5/

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Now, as for the 3Lz+3Lo combos of Anna's SP vs Trusova's FS. Anna has a lot better flow out of it. Also, on both jumps she has delayed rotation, while Trusova doesn't, and she has a much more aesthetically pleasing aerial position. It also looks more effortless. To be honest, now watching them multiple times, I don't see how one can find Trusova's 3Lz+3Lo more impressive unless they just concentrate on the takeoff edge or something. Anna's quite clearly was the better combo.


I think that this is the issue with your technical panelist background. You just concentrate on the technical panelist stuff, which GOE isn't a part of. And GOE isn't precise or absolute like technical panelist calls, GOE is largely about gut feeling, you don't have to perfectly rationalize everything about GOE. To me, it's clear that if a random judge sees those jump combos one after another, they'll feel the need to rate Anna's with higher GOE.

I agree with most of this post, but not this part. Honestly, I don't think Anya's +3Lo combos have much flow out of them, and this particular one, while probably one of her best, is not excluded from that category.

Maybe I haven't looked deeply enough but I don't see any delayed rotation in Anna's jumps? Maybe I've been spoiled by watching Polina Tsurskaya these past few days whose delayed rotation is really obvious. When one mentions things like "aesthetically pleasing" that automatically signals subjectiveness. I personally find Sasha's air position more aesthetic than Anna's, but I understand how one could believe the opposite. And even if Anna had better flow out of the combo (which again I disagree), Sasha had better flow and rhythm within the combo (it's the most effortless Lz-Lo I've seen in that aspect).

But I guess I agree with that last part, only if I saw these two next to each other I'd give Sasha the higher GOE. I think it's because I care more about the rhythm of +3Lo combos. Out of every +3Lo combo I've seen Sasha is the one who gets up into the 3Lo quickest, thus giving the jump more flow. It also makes it look effortless since it lacks that motion most skaters do where they like pull themselves up after sort of opening their position (Alina does this). Again, we are all biased. I've always found Sasha's +3Lo to be the best, while others think Anna's is. I don't think anyone is wrong, because we look at different aspects of the combo. So, I don't think people saying Sasha's 3Lz+3Lo is better only cares about the edges, I know I don't.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

This Moscow tournament is missing students from Panova, I think?

If you're talking about the one that just ended I remember Sofia Shifrina (won silver in elder girls) was a Snow Leopard. She even has the same lutz entrance as Kseniia Sinitsyna.

 

[Skatesocs]

Maybe I haven't looked deeply enough but I don't see any delayed rotation in Anna's jumps?

There isn't any.

 

[Skatefan15]

Saying "Anna's lutz is on the wrong edge" is not the same as saying "I hate Anna because her lutz is on the wrong edge". It's a sport, critiquing technique is not the same as hating a person. It's fine if people disagree, but we're talking about her feet, not her worth as a person. Wanting a skater to correct a mistake means you appreciate their potential, it doesn't mean that you think if they're not perfect then they're trash.

I completely agree! Also, someone can have a favorite skater but still call out certain aspects of that skater’s skating that can be improved. No one is saying they hate Anna (in fact despite her less than ideal technique, I’ve rewatched her nationals free many times). But the thing is, Anna does NOT take off from an outside edge and she DOES excessively pre rotate (there are many videos that slow down her jumps and those flaws are quite obvious) and those mistakes in her technique should be punished (or at least not get all 4s and 5s). And that’s when I have a problem with the judging, why should skaters who prerotate more than 180 degrees and take off an inside or flat edge get higher GOE’s than those who have less than 90 degrees of pre-rotation and take off on the RIGHT edge??
However, I don’t agree with the statement that Anna’s “ungrateful” or “braggy” about her victories, she seems actually quite humble to me

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I know we talk a lot about Anna being overscored, but I think it's important note that honestly, Kamila, Sasha and Daria were also overscored. Only in different ways. Anna absolutely deserved to be highest in PCS, but her TES should've been lower. Kamila absolutely deserved those perfect spin GOEs but her combo GOEs should've been lower. Sasha absolutely deserved high jump GOEs but her PCS should've been way lower. Daria absolutely deserved that placement and a high score but her lutzes should've been called "e" (though I also make the argument that if Sasha and Anna were getting 9.04 and 9.57 for their SS Daria's should've been like 9.75). At the end of the day, placements were pretty fair and I think this discussion we have should be less directed towards skaters, who are all imperfect but super talented and amazing, but more towards judges. And the truth is I think many of the lower ranked skaters were truly robbed. Tsibinova for example, has such low PCS and GOEs but I think she absolutely deserved higher. Liza Nugumanova's PCS are also too low. I don't understand the huge gap between Maiia's SP score and Daria's (especially considering Daria had a stumble). Frolova's PCS and GOEs for her FS were far too low (I can't believe she got such a low score for such a good program). This difference is the real "reputation scoring".

 

[Scott512]

I suddenly remembered this video of Anna.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

She says she knows there’s a difference between hurtful commentary and constructive criticism, she‘s aware of her imperfections and agrees with people who point it out.

Russian ladies in general are very self critical and strive for perfection all the time, and Anna also seems like a rather intelligent girl.

What an amazing interview. But mafia almost stole show.

If Anna wins worlds this year or Olympics next year some people are going to melt down. Oh well.

 

[Shayuki]

There isn't any.

Hm, she always tends to because her takeoff technique has her starting her rotations later than Trusova for example. I guess it's more pronounced with the actual quads, though, where she speeds up to like 2x her rotation speed after reaching the apex of the jump.

Even with the triples it produces a visual effect, however.

 

[Skatesocs]

Hm, she always tends to because her takeoff technique has her starting her rotations later than Trusova for example. I guess it's more pronounced with the actual quads, though, where she speeds up to like 2x her rotation speed after reaching the apex of the jump.

Even with the triples it produces a visual effect, though.

This is not at the apex to me:



What you're noticing is her lower body trying to catch up with her upper body, since she twists into the jump. It's the same for Tsurskaya.

Moreover, a correct Lutz will always close slightly after take off. It's partly the effect of having counter rotation.

The most difficult jump I've seen - so really truly a correct technique jump that closes at the apex - is a 2A. Here, by Kurt Browning:

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

What an amazing interview. But mafia almost stole show.

If Anna wins worlds this year or Olympics next year some people are going to melt down. Oh well.

Is there a chance that ISU is going to apply its pre-rotation rule again?
They canceled it because of COVID.

Yuzuru Hanyu on quad lutz pre-rotation:
"Of course, the 4Lz is very difficult, but it's possible that everyone may be able to jump it, if they want to. It also depends on the type of skater. In my case, no matter how hard I practice, I can't pre-rotate it. It wasn't taught that way when I was young. Gradually, the 4Lz might stop being a lutz jump."