2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[alexocfp]

Nope. Not at all. For Carolina's time and era, she had all the athletic proficiency that was needed. Focusing on all the aspects of figure skating, not just athleticism, is what gives the sport its individuality and beauty

Not so. In the early 1990s, starting in 1988 with Midori Ito, there were two women single skaters at the top of the field doing 3A, to the point that for several years, some of the other top female skaters were actively working on a 3A, including Kristi Yamaguchi. Ultimately, Kristi won 1992 Olympics over Ito and Harding, not just in that event, but other times too. She won by developing her athleticism *and* her artistry.

Bringing it back to topic -- again, their various qualities including artistry and athleticism are what draw me to Alena and Anna.

It certainly comes down to taste and what you are looking for. I’m not arguing that.

For me, it’s about the jumps and how much higher and how many more rotations and how many combos you can do.

Once the jumps are done for me the program, for all intents and purposes, is also done. My biases are all out in the open.

I wholeheartedly agree with the Eteri method of jumping high, rotating a hundred times and going a million kilometers per hour. And amassing crazy points through sheer physicality.

 

[alexocfp]

Yeah... I dislike Kostner's Bolero too. During Sochi, compared to Worlds 2013, she was significantly slower going into her jumps in order to land them. Always laugh when it's brought up as "artistry" (including specifically changing the layout to make it easier to land and removing all transitions lol).

Asada yes. Kim probably not either, as much as the jump quality and talent was great, she was too injured to learn more.

That’s one of my arguments. Artistry being used to cover up shortcomings.

You can fake artistry and you can get others to go along with it, but you can’t fake jumps. Quads take more skill and athleticism than artistry, so it’s no coincidence those score a lot more points.

 

[Skatesocs]

Artistry being used to cover up shortcomings.

With that version, it was more "reputation to cover up shortcomings".

 

[alexocfp]

With that version, it was more "reputation to cover up shortcomings".

That’s another reason I like the sport of figure skating rather than the art of figure skating. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Plus, a beast of an athlete Iike Trusova is a lot more exciting to watch because she can wow you and leave you breathless, or spectacularly go down in flames with her high risk high reward attitude.

This kind of unpredictability is gold for a spectator. Must see TV. Haha

 

[kan01]

Exactly, that’s why I welcome the new wave that are pioneers and innovators.

And in a decade or 2, hopefully what we are seeing now is obsolete.

The next generation innovating is how it should be.

But you have to innovate in other areas too. The amount of revolutions in the air a human can do is limited and nothing increases in a straight line over large periods of time, but in waves. Some skaters could land 4As or 5s and afterwards a regression could happen in the sport related to jumps. Unless the human species will evolve into a different species more adapted to rotating in the air and fighting gravity like a bird or something, but that happens in aeons and usually after a great extinction if at all (possibilities slim).
And let's not forget the pressure on the human body a 5 or 6 revolution jump would mean. Seeing people so badly injured that their lives are changed forever is not how it should be IMO and we've seen that in gymnastics I think. Or them having a competitive career that is spanning 4 years or less because of the grueling nature of the elite level sport.

 

[Skatesocs]

For me, it’s about the jumps and how much higher and how many more rotations and how many combos you can do.

That’s another reason I like the sport of figure skating rather than the art of figure skating. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Plus, a beast of an athlete Iike Trusova is a lot more exciting to watch because she can wow you and leave you breathless, or spectacularly go down in flames with her high risk high reward attitude.

This kind of unpredictability is gold for a spectator. Must see TV. Haha

About this, since Ito's artistry was brought up, I think I've read she was under huge pressure during the 1991-92 season to lose weight so that the judges would perceive her as "artistic". It really affected her stamina. I don't want that kind of stuff. It is easy to say she never worked on anything except jumps and Yamaguchi did "both" and preach the value of "both" - but the fact of the matter is people like Ito faced a lot of prejudice, and it didn't really matter what she did. She was Japanese, and just a jumper - and she was facing an American who simply didn't have her talent. I don't want that nonsense happening.

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

No one should ever skate to Bolero

 

[alexocfp]

But you have to innovate in other areas too. The amount of revolutions in the air a human can do is limited and nothing increases in a straight line over large periods of time, but in waves. Some skaters could land 4As or 5s and afterwards a regression could happen. Unless the human species will evolve into a different species more adapted to rotating in the air and fighting gravity like a bird or something, but that happens in aeons and usually after a great extinction if at all (possibilities slim).
And let's not forget the pressure on the human body a 5 or 6 revolution jump would mean. Seeing people so badly injured that their lives are changed forever is not how it should be IMO and we've seen that in gymnastics I think.

I say keep going so my prediction about Kamila’s granddaughter jumping the 8T becomes reality. Haha

Humans adapt. The 4A was thought impossible but we have skaters over rotating the 3A now. It’s only a matter of time until someone comes along and figures it out.

And yes the human body has limits but we haven’t reached it in figure skating yet. Soon, the programs will be 3A and 6 quad jumps. 5 quads has been shown possible already.

And that’s going to take a while so we have aren’t even close to reaching something like that.

Plus, the caliber of athlete getting involved in the sport has improved immensely. The toll on the body won’t be as bad because the next generation will be prepared for it. Not to mention that there will be more advances in medicine and nutrition and even training methods.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Look at how far we have come since the last Olympics. 4 years in absolute time, but in innovation time it’s been way more.

The only way it will slow down is if there is a scoring change to devalue jumps.

Otherwise, there are 6 year olds with Anna and Trusova and Valieva posters in their rooms dreaming of topping them.

 

[kan01]

I say keep going so my prediction about Kamila’s granddaughter jumping the 8T becomes reality. Haha

Humans adapt. The 4A was thought impossible but we have skaters over rotating the 3A now. It’s only a matter of time until someone comes along and figures it out.

And yes the human body has limits but we haven’t reached it in figure skating yet. Soon, the programs will be 3A and 6 quad jumps. 5 quads has been shown possible already.

And that’s going to take a while so we have aren’t even close to reaching something like that.

Plus, the caliber of athlete getting involved in the sport has improved immensely. The toll on the body won’t be as bad because the next generation will be prepared for it. Not to mention that there will be more advances in medicine and nutrition and even training methods.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Look at how far we have come since the last Olympics. 4 years in absolute time, but in innovation time it’s been way more.

The only way it will slow down is if there is a scoring change to devalue jumps.

Otherwise, there are 6 year olds with Anna and Trusova and Valieva posters in their rooms dreaming of topping them.

And yet no one can do a 4-4 combination. Quads are all fun and games, but we wouldn't see so many falls if it would be so easy to evolve the jumping part of the sport. You have only one or two people in the whole world that are actually consistent with quads (and they're males). And any time a fall happens it kinda ruins the whole program. At least for me personally.

 

[alexocfp]

And yet no one can do a 4-4 combination. Quads are all fun and games, but we wouldn't see so many falls if it would be so easy to evolve the jumping part of the sport. You have only one or two people in the whole world that are actually consistent with quads (and they're males). And any time a fall happens it kinda ruins the whole program. At least for me personally.

Of course they aren’t consistent since we are still in the trail and error phase.

The pioneering phase where the lab sometimes gets blown up because of the different elements that are mixed together. Haha

 

[MiraiFan]

... a beast of an athlete Iike Trusova is a lot more exciting to watch because she can wow you and leave you breathless, or spectacularly go down in flames with her high risk high reward attitude.

And it's hideous the times she splats through the whole program...

 

[alexocfp]

And it's hideous the times she splats through the whole program...

And that happens too. It’s the reason why car wrecks draw a crowd.

And Trusova’s wrecks are quite gruesome no doubt.

 

[kan01]

Of course they aren’t consistent since we are still in the trail and error phase.

The pioneering phase where the lab sometimes gets blown up because of the different elements that are mixed together. Haha

Could be. Meanwhile I'll wait for the first skater to do a 4-4 combo before hoping for the possibility of a quintuple. But that's just me.

 

[alexocfp]

Could be. Meanwhile I'll wait for the first skater to do a 4-4 combo before hoping for the possibility of a quintuple. But that's just me.

I think we would all like to see that.

We have 4-3 now. Not as far off as we were a few years ago.

Plus we have to remember that the trajectory won’t always be the same. From 2018 to 2022 we had a big leap, the leap in the next 4 or 5 years may be less of a leap compared to the last one.

The 4-4 could be years or a decade away.
Or it could happen sooner.

Right now we are in the industrial revolution phase. The horse and buggy is being overtaken by the automobile. And we can get it in any color (so long as it’s black.)

I’m just enjoying the ride.

 

[elbkup]

And that happens too. It’s the reason why car wrecks draw a crowd.

And Trusova’s wrecks are quite gruesome no doubt.

Car wrecks draw a particular kind of crowd … we have a name for this kind of voyeurism…. Ambulance chasing Maybe a different analogy?

 

[sinus]

No one should ever skate to Bolero

Is there some kind of cult of the Bolero haters outwhere? Because it's followers seem to proclaim their credo like on every page.

 

[Artemisa]

Is there some kind of cult of the Bolero haters outwhere? Because it's followers seem to proclaim their credo like on every page.

I love Pogo's Bolero

 

[lariko]

To be fair Bolero is literally the perfect Eteri skater music. Frantic, repetitive and has little musical accents. Just like most of Danill G choreo is. So they're actually quite wise in giving Kamila Bolero.

I mean, wouldn’t it have been less challenging to select a crowd pleaser for a hoped-for Olympic triumph? Why did they decide to fight an uphill battle when they could have avoided it?

 

[sinus]

I mean, wouldn’t it have been less challenging to select a crowd pleaser for a hoped-for Olympic triumph? Why did they decide to fight an uphill battle when they could have avoided it?

It is not an uphill battle. Bolero is the most popular piece of classical music in the last century. It's a king of crowd pleasers.

 

[lariko]

It is not an uphill battle. Bolero is the most popular piece of classical music in the last century. It's a king of crowd pleasers.

If so, it’s weird, given how dull and monotonous it is.