2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[jenaj]

I wonder how many people watching the Olympics in 2018 realized that that was the last Olympics before the sport changed forever?

Speaking of, you can probably forget a comeback form the gold and silver medal winners from that Olympics.

The tech content score deficit now can’t be overcome by backloading or “artistry” or anything concrete. Liza with 2 2A’s was thoroughly battered.

Doubt they will work hard to make a comeback to get thrashed. Their legacies are settled, why tarnish them?

I don't think coming in second is being "thoroughly battered." The sport has changed before. 60% of the score used to be for compulsory figures. There was no short program. The free skate couldn't overcome a figures deficit. I predict there will be some adjustments in the scoring after the Olympics.

 

[Dawn825]

As it looks now the bloodbath may not happen at all. Only three primary contenders left for three spots.

Kostornaya may be happy with a 4th place and being reserve/swap for Olympics.
Trusova is likely out of the roaster with a broken foot.

I doubt anybody would be happy going to the Olympics and not getting to compete.
I think its way too early to count Trusova out - its unclear how bad her injury is. She landed a quad lutz and like 12 triples at SkAm. So even if it hurts her, she can clearly still skate on it. If her team can get away with just treating the pain and not the injury for the next 4 months, I'm sure they will. Personally I also think it's too early to count Scherbakova out. The tech panel was all over her at Budapest but there's no evidence yet that a GP panel would be too - she had been going notoriously uncalled for years before now. Anna also probably needs only one quad to beat Liza and Maiia at Nationals, considering she's their big champion and the one they would rather send. Stabilizing one quad seems very doable for Anna.

 

[alexocfp]

I don't think coming in second is being "thoroughly battered." The sport has changed before. 60% of the score used to be for compulsory figures. There was no short program. The free skate couldn't overcome a figures deficit. I predict there will be some adjustments in the scoring after the Olympics.

I’m a huge Liza fan, but have no problem admitting it was a battering. Haha

I’m ecstatic over second. Make no mistake about that.

But 30 plus points is 3 good combo jumps. There are 7 jumps total in the SP. Kamila could have skipped almost half her jumps and still won. It’s a battering. Unless you like thrashed better. Haha

Of course we need scoring adjustments. We need a scoring table for the 4A and quintuple jumps. Haha

 

[bookofcharms]

The way placements and scores are viewed is very subjective. It was a great outcome for Tuktamysheva herself and she skated very well and judging by her delight at her skates and scores, it was a personal victory for her.

Re Trusova - do we know for certain it’s a broken foot? Unlike Medvedeva in 2017/2018 it will be a bit harder for Trusova to take time out to heal.

 

[Thrashergurl]

Who would’ve thought the 3A would be struggling so much headed in to these Olympics? Well, many honesty aren’t surprised considering the length of time most the Russian ladies have spent at the top.

It’s interesting to see some upset about the inflated scores of the top ladies. I didn’t see that type of outcry when it was Zagitova getting the inflated scores for what she was actually producing on the ice. The inflated scoring is not a new thing. It’s almost expected. And honestly, I wouldn’t feel sorry for any of the girls that are being passed right now—it wasn’t that long ago that it was them overtaking the favorites and enjoying every minute of it.

Kamila is definitely entering Seniors at the right time. If she wins Nationals, GPF, Olympics and Worlds wild she be the first to win all titles in her Senior debut? I know Alina came close but didn’t win Worlds until her second year.

It’ll be interesting to see how this season plays out.

 

[lurkerghost1]

I would once again remark that I really do not see quantity of skaters over 18 with "more variation and creative performances", all those amazing mature performers who cannot be seen on competitions because their spots are taken by those "evil" youngsters relying on quads. Where do they hide them.

I was just critiquing Medvedeva's scores in this thread but both she and Zagitova fit this bill although I wouldn't call the youngsters "evil." They both retired with the best programs of their entire career (Me Voy, Alegria) which are a cut above anything we are seeing from the competitors this season, and they retired when their performance and interpretation skills were at their finest. A lot of skaters who were artistically unique never ever even got the chance to get to 18 before retiring or switching countries (Tarakanova, Gubanova, Talailakina, maybe Frolova).

Not to say Trusova Kostornaia Shcherbakova Valieva Usacheva Khromykh Tuktamysheva and Sinitsyna don't have great programs and performances but Meddvedeva and Zagitova really retired in their prime artistically. It's just technically they were passed it.

 

[Amei]

I doubt anybody would be happy going to the Olympics and not getting to compete.
I think its way too early to count Trusova out - its unclear how bad her injury is. She landed a quad lutz and like 12 triples at SkAm. So even if it hurts her, she can clearly still skate on it. If her team can get away with just treating the pain and not the injury for the next 4 months, I'm sure they will. Personally I also think it's too early to count Scherbakova out. The tech panel was all over her at Budapest but there's no evidence yet that a GP panel would be too - she had been going notoriously uncalled for years before now. Anna also probably needs only one quad to beat Liza and Maiia at Nationals, considering she's their big champion and the one they would rather send. Stabilizing one quad seems very doable for Anna.

Well in terms of Trusova's injury (which I don't think there's been anything official from her team on the injury) , yes she might be able to skate through it but she's certainly not healing it, could be making it worse. Would the Fed gamble on someone that's injured especially in their foot, if there is another healthy alternative?

 

[flanker]

I was just critiquing Medvedeva's scores in this thread but both she and Zagitova fit this bill although I wouldn't call the youngsters "evil." They both retired with the best programs of their entire career (Me Voy, Alegria) which are a cut above anything we are seeing from the competitors this season, and they retired when their performance and interpretation skills were at their finest. A lot of skaters who were artistically unique never ever even got the chance to get to 18 before retiring or switching countries (Tarakanova, Gubanova, Talailakina, maybe Frolova).

Not to say Trusova Kostornaia Shcherbakova Valieva Usacheva Khromykh Tuktamysheva and Sinitsyna don't have great programs and performances but Meddvedeva and Zagitova really retired in their prime artistically. It's just technically they were passed it.

As an Alina fan I can say this is nuts, the claim they are "being passed technically" is a mere fanfiction. Just compare the scores. There are still very little cases of scores that surpass Alina's top performances for instance. Some Liza fans are in cloud No. 9 of her current scoring but the truth is Alina reached higher and without 3A. If such skater as Liza is competitive, Alina would be too with ease. She wasn't "passed", Alina isn't sitting in the corner crying "I want to compete so madly but I can't because of those younger skaters." It's not a forced decision, it's a free decision that did not appear "under circumstances". Alina was considering hiatus for a long time, in fact just after the olympic season already. She does what she wants and we fans should understand that skaters can have their own desires.

Similar things could be said about Evgenia, the reasons may not be the same but they both would be currently out of comeptitions even if there were no Sasha, Aliona, Anna, Kamila etc. The quads and all that are not the reason why they are not competing and the crusade against "too young quadsters" is just silly.

 

[Paulipau]

As an Alina fan I can say this is nuts, the claim they are "being passed technically" is a mere fanfiction. Just compare the scores. There are still very little cases of scores that surpass Alina's top performances for instance. Some Liza fans are in cloud No. 9 of her current scoring but the truth is Alina reached higher and without 3A. If such skater as Liza is competitive, Alina would be too with ease. She wasn't "passed". Similar things could be said about Evgenia. The quads and all that are not the reason why they are not competing and the crusade against "too young quadsters" is just silly.

Yes, but Alina had problems with her jumps in her last season.

Surely, the 2018 Alina would be competitive, even in Russia. 2020 Alina? probably not.

 

[flanker]

Yes, but Alina had problems with her jumps in her last season.

Surely, the 2018 Alina would be competitive. 2020 Alina? probably not.

Liza did not have problems for three seasons consequently, right? And in fact even after that her results were not stable, she was good in 2018/19, but much worse in 2019/20. C'mon. Problems can be solved.

 

[Paulipau]

Liza did not have problems for three seasons consequently, right? And in fact even after that her results were not stable, she was good in 2018/19, but much worse in 2019/20. C'mon. Problems can be solved.

Ofc they can be solved, and Liza pushed herself through it.
And she wasn't much worse in 19/20, she got 2 GP medals and was 4th at Russian Nats just behind the 3A.
Her scores were higher in 19/20 than 18/19, its just the field that changed.

 

[flanker]

Ofc they can be solved, and Liza pushed herself through it.
And she wasn't much worse in 19/20, she got 2 GP medals and was 4th at Russian Nats just behind the 3A.
Her scores were higher in 19/20 than 18/19, its just the field that changed.

I wouldn't say her scores were higher, in fact her scores were significantly good only at SC events and only once she reached over 220 in but OK, she wasn't that much worse. Nevertheless, my points is Alina isn't competing not because she can't be competitive but because she simply doesn't want to compete no matter who the other skaters are.

 

[Paulipau]

I wouldn't say her scores were higher, in fact her scores were significantly good only at SC events and only once she reached over 220 in but OK, she wasn't that much worse. Nevertheless, my points is Alina isn't competing not because she can't be competitive but because she simply doesn't want to compete no matter who the other skaters are.

I bet that she would like to compete if she could still be in the top, but she wouldn't be anymore as she is not competitive.
So to be competitive she would have to put a looot of work into it, which she is not willing to do.

And I'm not surprised, I think it helps Liza that she actually never stopped competing and kept her form more or less all the time, and ofc motivation. Alina has OGM...what else she could possibly want.

 

[[email protected]]

I bet that she would like to compete if she could still be in the top, but she wouldn't be anymore as she is not competitive.
So to be competitive she would have to put a looot of work into it, which she is not willing to do.

And I'm not surprised, I think it helps Liza that she actually never stopped competing and kept her form more or less all the time, and ofc motivation. Alina has OGM...what else she could possibly want.

And this is the answer. To be competitive and not just "artistic" now means a lot of work. And this means some ambitious goal and the motivation to reach that goal. With Liza the goal is clear - to go to the Olympics finally. I am sure that we won't see any 230+ performance from her after Bejing. She will either retire or follow "Leonova's path" skating a couple more years just for fun. With Alina there is apparently no goal to give it all with potential sacrifices. She had multiple health issues during her last season. Why would she go on, unless every bright youngster falters and she will have to "save Russia" yet another time like she had to do during 2018 WC?

 

[Scott512]

I don't think coming in second is being "thoroughly battered." The sport has changed before. 60% of the score used to be for compulsory figures. There was no short program. The free skate couldn't overcome a figures deficit. I predict there will be some adjustments in the scoring after the Olympics.

Hopefully the adjustments will help skaters who don't have the ultra jumps but have artistry interpretation musicality and presentation. I don't know if it's good for the sport to see some really good figure skaters like 60 or 70 points behind the leader.

 

[flanker]

I bet that she would like to compete if she could still be in the top, but she wouldn't be anymore as she is not competitive.
So to be competitive she would have to put a looot of work into it, which she is not willing to do.

And I'm not surprised, I think it helps Liza that she actually never stopped competing and kept her form more or less all the time, and ofc motivation. Alina has OGM...what else she could possibly want.

It's not a matter of willing to work, because whatever can be said about Alina, no one can reasonably dare to say she isn't. To all fans who think otherwise there are those words of Alina: "There is a world outside of figure skating." Whatever we may wishwe can't use the line of a Happy Prince: Little swallow, do as I command.

 

[Paulipau]

It's not a matter of willing to work, because whatever can be said about Alina, no one can reasonably dare to say she isn't. To all fans who think otherwise there are those words of Alina: "There is a world outside of figure skating." Whatever we may wishwe can't use the line of a Happy Prince: Little swallow, do as I command.

I was clearly speaking about figure skating and this very moment in time, I'm sure that Alina is a very hardworking girl and she has all the titles in the world to prove it

 

[Jeanie19]

As a Medvedeva fan, I think she would be highly competitive. It was just a year ago that she had back surgery and hospitalized for Covid. She is extremely busy and she is attending Moscow University. Learning pairs elements is not easy at age 21, but she is doing that. And she is not retired, just skipping this season.

And Evgenia and Alina do not have the time to spend hours at the rink 6 days a week. If they wanted to compete competitively this season, they could have.
Who knows what next season will bring, they are young.

 

[Scott512]

As an Alina fan I can say this is nuts, the claim they are "being passed technically" is a mere fanfiction. Just compare the scores. There are still very little cases of scores that surpass Alina's top performances for instance. Some Liza fans are in cloud No. 9 of her current scoring but the truth is Alina reached higher and without 3A. If such skater as Liza is competitive, Alina would be too with ease. She wasn't "passed", Alina isn't sitting in the corner crying "I want to compete so madly but I can't because of those younger skaters." It's not a forced decision, a free decision that did not appear "under circumstances". Alina was considering hiatus for a long time, in fact just after the olympic season already. She does what she wants and we fans should understand that skaters can have their own desires.

Similar things could be said about Evgenia, the reasons may not be the same but they both would be currently out of comeptitions even if there were no Sasha, Aliona, Anna, Kamila etc. The quads and all that are not the reason why they are not competing and the crusade against "too young quadsters" is just silly.

It is a crusade against the quadsters and TT lot of us are getting tired of it. I wonder if the several non Russian ladies who have quads and triple axles are going through the same thing.

I don't blame Alina for not competing anymore. I believe she and evgenia if healthy and and under normal training would score in the 230 plus point range probably higher with the scores they're dishing out these days.

 

[sclloyd]

I was clearly speaking about figure skating and this very moment in time, I'm sure that Alina is a very hardworking girl and she has all the titles in the world to prove it

That sort of missed the point. Alina used to score this high before quads and triple axels, and the reason she didn’t anymore was exactly that she didn’t want to work on that specifically, she wanted to focus her efforts elsewhere. To suggest that she’d be getting outplayed in this field because she didn’t want to work or because Liza works harder is exactly the point— it’d only be because of effort, not because of talent. There is a reason she doesn’t compete anymore, she said it was stressful and she was unmotivated. Ability to beat Liza if she worked? Absolutely. Desire to? No. She has her titles, and now a broadcasting career and with her skills and performance and program complexity under normal training conditions for a competitive skater would I’m sure be scoring the same as she did.