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- Feb 10, 2018
The knee thing was Osgood-Schlatter disease (wchich is pretty common among teen age sporting kids), not an injury.
2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating
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- Feb 10, 2018
There is also Titova in Plushy's camp whose skating can be credited to Plushenko's team. Of course she's still a novice but so far everything seems fine for her when she will come to a junior age (the next season).
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- Feb 10, 2018
Here I again remind that 100 % of int. skaters who came close to the level of Eteri's camp are/were recently injured and the kind or seriousness of those injuries is not much different. It doesn't matter they are from different camps. What matters is the level of skating.
It's not about "whitewashing" some others say, it's about cherrypicking and trying to find different stories for the same cases as I've already pointed out in my previous reply that currently "is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors"
Let anyone who liked that post (and by "liked" I don't mean simple click on the bottom right button) or anyone who at least was inspired to think a little about those words even if he disagreed with them try to think whether there was anything that requires a "moderator approval" in comparison to what that replied to.
True. Last season was worse over here. I think we need up our game. I mean, this is supposed to be THE olympic season. ShamefulStill, we have less drama than last season (so far).
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- Feb 11, 2018
Let's give it another week. Maybe Daniil gets so fed up he throws a shrimp on the floor and someone trips over it and causes a power outage in the whole Grenoble region and compromises the scoring systems.True. Last season was worse over here. I think we need up our game. I mean, this is supposed to be THE olympic season. Shameful
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- Mar 16, 2019
Samodelkina will go all in at nationals and try 3A and 3 different quads in the FS. Really excited to see how she does.
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- Apr 9, 2016
I would argue the credit for getting Zhilina to her level goes to her mother (although not to Plushenko, here I agree). But what about Titova? She already has landed 3A/4S and she came to Plushenko with no triples.
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- Apr 2, 2016
She withdrew from the Gala Exhibition and she was in tears when she announced it before the audience.
https://youtu.be/91qSl2a1su0?t=172
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- Aug 20, 2019
I don’t really care about this discrete calculation of skater injuries by camp. What is being ignored by everyone arguing without nuance on behalf of TT is the double standard of "don't tell me about your pain, everyone has it" and "athletes need to inform us about their pain, we are not mind readers"
BUT BUT BUT ORSER AND ZHENYA!!! I don't care. Zhenya informed Orser and the doctors of her pain and they worked around the injury together— removing spin positions, etc. Orser didn’t pretend to be surprised nor blame her for limiting herself.
You're cruel if you think the media is simply overanalyzing the last two weeks of comments from TT. These things are spoken about real girls with real emotions and pressure, who no doubt analyze them far more than we do.
BUT BUT BUT ORSER AND ZHENYA!!! I don't care. Zhenya informed Orser and the doctors of her pain and they worked around the injury together— removing spin positions, etc. Orser didn’t pretend to be surprised nor blame her for limiting herself.
You're cruel if you think the media is simply overanalyzing the last two weeks of comments from TT. These things are spoken about real girls with real emotions and pressure, who no doubt analyze them far more than we do.
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- Mar 15, 2021
Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but I wanted to quickly drop in and give another viewpoint on this: this is indeed very personal and I am in no way trying to judge or criticize, but rather to see this from a child's perspective. I was held back by my own family for similar reasons and it was (still is) a painful and frustrating experience. I dreamt of skating competitively and had the motivation to work hard for it, but my parents only allowed me to skate recreationally, would stop my practice after just one or two falls out of fear of injury, banned me from joining a club, having regular lessons or attempting even small local competitions. Now I am turning 23, still as motivated as I used to be, finally living independently and able to practice as much as I always wanted, but it is too late to reach elite level (or even a non-elite level that I could be truly happy with). Not a single session goes by without me getting frustrated over my slow progress, and wondering where I would be if I had been free to train hard from a young age. Maybe I'd have failed, gotten injured or retired already, but at least I would have had the opportunity to give it my best shot, without any regrets or what if's. So please think carefully before breaking a child's dream without letting them have a say in it... if they were truly determined and passionate about their goal, the frustration and resentment it leads to might end up being more painful for them than an injury or a disappointing competition result.
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- Nov 28, 2020
And in Daria’s case, she persevered to get there. I read somewhere that for whatever reason, she wasn’t accepted in the school the first tried she tried, but was accepted the second time.
Children are their own people. You can’t wrap them in plastic and shelter them. They need to learn to fall, need to learn to fail, and need to learn to get up.
Unfortunately we have controlling parents that won’t let their kids be kids.
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- Nov 2, 2013
Well sorry but this is just confirmation bias. There's injuries in any top level camp, it's a part of any sport. Obviously, more intense training leads to more injuries, that's basic knowledge and very logical as well. That's the risk one takes when aiming for the top.
Plushenko's camp for example has had plenty of injuries, even recently. Panova as well, very notably with Sinitsyna, right? Orser had several with medvedeva and Tursynbaeva(And Hanyu, though he doesn't fit in this thread) etc. and Radionova also had several significant injuries through her career, Proklova had to retire due to a serious injury that ended her career before her senior debut, how about Sotnikova who constantly was injured etc.
I'd say that if it seems like Eteri's camp's skaters have 3 times more injuries than others, it's because she has 3 times as many competitive skaters as the others. Other than that, just about any high intensity training group frequently has injuries.
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- Nov 28, 2020
Also not mentioned is the fact that everything that goes on there gets out due to it being a major sport.
They can’t hide injuries because someone will find out. Like any big club in any sport, leaks are inevitable because there is too much attention and focus on it.
On the other end of the spectrum, Olga Mikutina didn’t have any leaks, we didn’t know she was injured until she herself said it.
They don’t cover the sport the same way in Austria.
So in Russia everything is magnified and dissected for days, months and years.
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- Mar 16, 2019
No, this isn’t about it. It’s about people always assuming the absolute worst thing possible and not wanting to see a reasonable root cause.
Let’s look back at history and remember what people said in the past. Just other examples of people doing that. Also touch on Polina and her mom and genetic disease situation, since it was being brought up:
1) When Sasha and Anna first started jumping quads it was always assumed that Eteri is forcing them to do that. People were certain that the girls or their parents did not want this, that all of this was being forced on them, that this was ruining them physically and psychologically. That she doesn’t care and isn’t training quads safely. I remember saying that this doesn’t seem to be the case for me. What happens after a few years? We hear from Sasha first hand on MANY occasions that this is her dream. She loves jumping quads, she loves jumps more than anything and contrary to what people falsely assumed, she wasn’t forced to do that, she was being stopped all the time, which made her upset.
2) let’s take some other situations. That Aliona is being „forced“ to skate to Lovely in exhibition as a form of punishment, and they even put „handcuffs“ on her. Despite Aliona previously saying she liked this particular program. She loves it so much, she made a tattoo about it. This assumption sounds so ridiculous to me, but people are really dead set to see everything in the worst light possible.
3) that Evgenia wanted to take part in Ice Age a year ago, but Eteri intervened and put a stop to it. As if she has power over channel 1 producers. This year we find out that last year Averbukh made her an offer and she herself refused. Or the assumptions that she was forced to go back to Eteri.
Same about the 2 shrimps of Anna. People just go on to assume extreme malnourishment and her eating 2 shrimps per day as a normal thing for her.
If Eteri is telling them to learn to tolerate pain, people automatically assume it means tolerating ANY pain, without regard for severity or causes. No one wants to see anything else behind these words.
Yes, Aliona needs to build stamina. For it she needs to do more runthroughs. This isn’t equal to skating with your leg being torn off. It isn’t equal to her skating in excruciating pain, it just means she needs more runthroughs. How do people manage to make one equal to another is beyond me.
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- Mar 16, 2019
Now, regarding Polina Tsurskaya situation. To put an end to these confusing discussions about her genetics situation.
For one, it seems like there‘s a lot of confusion with all parties involved, and again, as I mentioned - people are just assuming the worst, as they always do.
What Eteri talked about in her interview was essentially a symptom, not a disease itself. She seemed to be not fully informed or just confused. It’s as if she talked about inflammation being a disease, while it’s actually a symptom of some autoimmune disorder. No wonder, it is a rare condition, it can be confusing.
rsport.ria.ru
The symptom she described was for König‘s disease. The information that doctors assume the reasons for it might be genetic is indeed correct, from what I read it is considered as one of the theories, due to that disease sometimes being present in multiple related people.
Polina also herself talked that she has this disease and she herself mentioned that it was likely genetic and she got it from her father. Most probably Eteri was talking based on information Polina provided to her.
youtu.be
Now Polina‘s mom confirms that Polina has König‘s disease, but she claims that this disease doesn’t have genetics as a primary cause.
Perhaps some doctors on this forum can help provide detail, but Polina’s mom claim is not correct. Scientists cannot actually determine what is the root cause for that disease, there are several theories and genetics are one of the main ones, while she speaks about genetics not being the reason more definitively. Perhaps she’s right about Polina not inheriting it from her father, but the claim about the root cause of the disease seems to be not in line with the research about it.
rsport.ria.ru
Now to round up. Does it really look like someone was purposely making up a disease for Polina and forcing Polina to lie about it’s genetic origin, or is it more likely it was just a confusion from all 3, because how complicated this disease really is? It’s up to each one to decide.
For one, it seems like there‘s a lot of confusion with all parties involved, and again, as I mentioned - people are just assuming the worst, as they always do.
What Eteri talked about in her interview was essentially a symptom, not a disease itself. She seemed to be not fully informed or just confused. It’s as if she talked about inflammation being a disease, while it’s actually a symptom of some autoimmune disorder. No wonder, it is a rare condition, it can be confusing.
Цурская имеет редкое заболевание, вызванное генетическими причинами - Тутберидзе
Российская фигуристка Полина Цурская имеет серьезные проблемы со здоровьем, вызванные генетическими предрасположенностями, заявила тренер 15-летней спортсменки Этери Тутберидзе.
rsport.ria.ru
The symptom she described was for König‘s disease. The information that doctors assume the reasons for it might be genetic is indeed correct, from what I read it is considered as one of the theories, due to that disease sometimes being present in multiple related people.
Polina also herself talked that she has this disease and she herself mentioned that it was likely genetic and she got it from her father. Most probably Eteri was talking based on information Polina provided to her.
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youtu.be
Now Polina‘s mom confirms that Polina has König‘s disease, but she claims that this disease doesn’t have genetics as a primary cause.
Perhaps some doctors on this forum can help provide detail, but Polina’s mom claim is not correct. Scientists cannot actually determine what is the root cause for that disease, there are several theories and genetics are one of the main ones, while she speaks about genetics not being the reason more definitively. Perhaps she’s right about Polina not inheriting it from her father, but the claim about the root cause of the disease seems to be not in line with the research about it.
Полина Цурская продолжит карьеру, несмотря на поясничную грыжу – мать фигуристки
Чемпионка юношеских Олимпийских игр 2016 года российская фигуристка Полина Цурская твердо настроена продолжать карьеру, несмотря на имеющуюся у нее грыжу поясничного отдела позвоночника, других заболеваний у нее нет, сообщила агентству "Р-Спорт" мать спортсменки Наталия Цурская.
rsport.ria.ru
Now to round up. Does it really look like someone was purposely making up a disease for Polina and forcing Polina to lie about it’s genetic origin, or is it more likely it was just a confusion from all 3, because how complicated this disease really is? It’s up to each one to decide.
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- Nov 28, 2020
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Now we wait to see how many “you are an Eteri apologist” posts follow this. What is the over/under?
Some people are going to cling onto the “Eteri is the devil come to life” no matter what facts you present to refute the allegations.
The hate Eteri camp is like a cult at this point. Blinders on and plow ahead no matter what.
Skaters are beating down her door to get into her camp. The malcontents that leave end up returning. She must be doing something right.
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- Mar 16, 2019
I will also add this interview of Polina for context, so people would stop saying she retired because of injuries.
In the interview Polina talks how she wanted to retire as early as 11-12, but felt scared to say „no“ to her parents at that time, because her parents moved to Moscow for her career and so she decided to push through and keep skating.
Also the last phrase in her interview speaks volumes. She’s asked whether or not she’s planning to skate in shows and she says no. Why? because she just doesn’t want to skate anymore. Even in shows. She also says she doesn’t regret her decision to retire not even one bit.
Injuries probably played it’s part, but people are ignoring that Polina had the thoughts of retiring very early on and she seems genuinely relieved and happy not to be a competitive skater. For her, I think, it mostly had to do with the person she is and what she wanted in life.
However, she is rounded up by some people into same old „expiration age“, „her rotation based technique failed her once she had puberty“, „she was too injured and had to retire“. None of these „reasons“ seem to be the case to me. Whatever people want to see, but not really see the reality.
www.sovsport.ru
In the interview Polina talks how she wanted to retire as early as 11-12, but felt scared to say „no“ to her parents at that time, because her parents moved to Moscow for her career and so she decided to push through and keep skating.
Also the last phrase in her interview speaks volumes. She’s asked whether or not she’s planning to skate in shows and she says no. Why? because she just doesn’t want to skate anymore. Even in shows. She also says she doesn’t regret her decision to retire not even one bit.
Injuries probably played it’s part, but people are ignoring that Polina had the thoughts of retiring very early on and she seems genuinely relieved and happy not to be a competitive skater. For her, I think, it mostly had to do with the person she is and what she wanted in life.
However, she is rounded up by some people into same old „expiration age“, „her rotation based technique failed her once she had puberty“, „she was too injured and had to retire“. None of these „reasons“ seem to be the case to me. Whatever people want to see, but not really see the reality.
Полина Цурская: Я все-таки пришла к Этери Георгиевне с цветами (эксклюзив)
Фигуристка сборной России, завершившая карьеру в 17 лет, дала эксклюзивное интервью «Советскому спорту».
Now, regarding Polina Tsurskaya situation. To put an end to these confusing discussions about her genetics situation.
For one, it seems like there‘s a lot of confusion with all parties involved, and again, as I mentioned - people are just assuming the worst, as they always do.
What Eteri talked about in her interview was essentially a symptom, not a disease itself. She seemed to be not fully informed or just confused. It’s as if she talked about inflammation being a disease, while it’s actually a symptom of some autoimmune disorder. No wonder, it is a rare condition, it can be confusing.
Цурская имеет редкое заболевание, вызванное генетическими причинами - Тутберидзе
Российская фигуристка Полина Цурская имеет серьезные проблемы со здоровьем, вызванные генетическими предрасположенностями, заявила тренер 15-летней спортсменки Этери Тутберидзе.
The symptom she described was for König‘s disease. The information that doctors assume the reasons for it might be genetic is indeed correct, from what I read it is considered as one of the theories, due to that disease sometimes being present in multiple related people.
Polina also herself talked that she has this disease and she herself mentioned that it was likely genetic and she got it from her father. Most probably Eteri was talking based on information Polina provided to her.
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Now Polina‘s mom confirms that Polina has König‘s disease, but she claims that this disease doesn’t have genetics as a primary cause.
Perhaps some doctors on this forum can help provide detail, but Polina’s mom claim is not correct. Scientists cannot actually determine what is the root cause for that disease, there are several theories and genetics are one of the main ones, while she speaks about genetics not being the reason more definitively. Perhaps she’s right about Polina not inheriting it from her father, but the claim about the root cause of the disease seems to be not in line with the research about it.
Полина Цурская продолжит карьеру, несмотря на поясничную грыжу – мать фигуристки
Чемпионка юношеских Олимпийских игр 2016 года российская фигуристка Полина Цурская твердо настроена продолжать карьеру, несмотря на имеющуюся у нее грыжу поясничного отдела позвоночника, других заболеваний у нее нет, сообщила агентству "Р-Спорт" мать спортсменки Наталия Цурская.
Now to round up. Does it really look like someone was purposely making up a disease for Polina and forcing Polina to lie about it’s genetic origin, or is it more likely it was just a confusion from all 3, because how complicated this disease really is? It’s up to each one to decide.
I'm not a doctor, but I am someone with an autoimmune disease and based on personal experience - parents struggle with the thought they gave their child a disease.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Just wanted to add my own opinion here.
I see no reason to think it's the fault of a coach when an athlete is injured. Let's face it - a high-level athlete = $$$/reputation for the coach if that athlete is successful. Bottom line, a coach does not want their athlete to be injured. When an athlete is injured, then all the hours of training, condition, etc. go down the drain along with any prospective titles. What coach would want that?
A coaches' job is to help the athlete to obtain his/her goal and to work with him/her and/or with the parent(s) (in the case of minors) to get there. Injuries happen at all levels. We just don't hear about them all.
I see no reason to think it's the fault of a coach when an athlete is injured. Let's face it - a high-level athlete = $$$/reputation for the coach if that athlete is successful. Bottom line, a coach does not want their athlete to be injured. When an athlete is injured, then all the hours of training, condition, etc. go down the drain along with any prospective titles. What coach would want that?
A coaches' job is to help the athlete to obtain his/her goal and to work with him/her and/or with the parent(s) (in the case of minors) to get there. Injuries happen at all levels. We just don't hear about them all.
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- Sep 22, 2019
Thanks for the updates on Polina's situation.Now, regarding Polina Tsurskaya situation. To put an end to these confusing discussions about her genetics situation.
For one, it seems like there‘s a lot of confusion with all parties involved, and again, as I mentioned - people are just assuming the worst, as they always do.
What Eteri talked about in her interview was essentially a symptom, not a disease itself. She seemed to be not fully informed or just confused. It’s as if she talked about inflammation being a disease, while it’s actually a symptom of some autoimmune disorder. No wonder, it is a rare condition, it can be confusing.
Цурская имеет редкое заболевание, вызванное генетическими причинами - Тутберидзе
Российская фигуристка Полина Цурская имеет серьезные проблемы со здоровьем, вызванные генетическими предрасположенностями, заявила тренер 15-летней спортсменки Этери Тутберидзе.
The symptom she described was for König‘s disease. The information that doctors assume the reasons for it might be genetic is indeed correct, from what I read it is considered as one of the theories, due to that disease sometimes being present in multiple related people.
Polina also herself talked that she has this disease and she herself mentioned that it was likely genetic and she got it from her father. Most probably Eteri was talking based on information Polina provided to her.
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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
Now Polina‘s mom confirms that Polina has König‘s disease, but she claims that this disease doesn’t have genetics as a primary cause.
Perhaps some doctors on this forum can help provide detail, but Polina’s mom claim is not correct. Scientists cannot actually determine what is the root cause for that disease, there are several theories and genetics are one of the main ones, while she speaks about genetics not being the reason more definitively. Perhaps she’s right about Polina not inheriting it from her father, but the claim about the root cause of the disease seems to be not in line with the research about it.
Полина Цурская продолжит карьеру, несмотря на поясничную грыжу – мать фигуристки
Чемпионка юношеских Олимпийских игр 2016 года российская фигуристка Полина Цурская твердо настроена продолжать карьеру, несмотря на имеющуюся у нее грыжу поясничного отдела позвоночника, других заболеваний у нее нет, сообщила агентству "Р-Спорт" мать спортсменки Наталия Цурская.
Now to round up. Does it really look like someone was purposely making up a disease for Polina and forcing Polina to lie about it’s genetic origin, or is it more likely it was just a confusion from all 3, because how complicated this disease really is? It’s up to each one to decide.
Slightly OT, I realised 'Koenig's disease' is a synonym for 'osteochondritis dissecans', which I actually had heard Polina had - there is a Wikipedia page for it under this name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteochondritis_dissecans#CausesIt sounds like a multifactorial disease, with possible genetic predisposition + environmental causes. The mechanism is not as simple as e.g. cystic fibrosis which follows Mendelian inheritance, where you know that a specific mutation in the CFTR gene inevitably cause the disease phenotype. Rather, it's more like cancer (e.g. BRCA mutations increase risk of breast cancer but it doesn't mean you will get it).
Or to use a closer example which is also related to immunity, Crohn's disease (dozens of genes are associated with higher risk, but so are factors like smoking, diet and prior gut infection) - one of my parents has it, but not me, although studies have shown that as a close relative my risk is substantially higher than the general population.
So yes, it's not wrong for Eteri to say that Polina has a 'genetic disease'. However, Polina's mum is also not wrong to say that genetics is not the 'primary cause' of osteochondritis dissecans (in fact the Wiki article also implicates repetitive strain, which also makes sense for a young athlete). If its etiology is similar to Crohn's, debating whether genetic or environmental factors carry more weight is probably something best left to medical academia rather than the general public.
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