2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Draculus]

The percentage of women getting injured who do Ultra C is much higher than the men.

Do you have any proof to this statement?

 

[Sjs5572]

Do you have any proof to this statement?

Do you have any proof to this statement?

Since we're dealing with elite skaters,
just look at the top 30 ISU ranking men who do at least 3a/quad
and
Ultra C women in the top 30.

 

[Jontor]

Since we're dealing with elite skaters,
just look at the top 30 ISU ranking men who do at least 3a/quad
and
Ultra C women in the top 30.

But the ranking system is deeply flawed. It consists of skaters getting points for just showing up at competitions. For example, right now Starr Andrews is ranked 23rd. There is no way she is the 23rd best skater in the world. There is at least 30 women from Russia alone who is better than her, but they are not in this ranking system.

 

[Draculus]

Since we're dealing with elite skaters,
just look at the top 30 ISU ranking men who do at least 3a/quad
and
Ultra C women in the top 30.

So the answer is no, you don't?

 

[Paulipau]

Since we're dealing with elite skaters,
just look at the top 30 ISU ranking men who do at least 3a/quad
and
Ultra C women in the top 30.

Also, we hardly have enough woman to make the statistics count. We have what, 5 seniors? 7 counting ladies who just entered seniors?
Comparing with a group of 28 guys?

That would make no sense...

 

[chuckm]

Comparing jumps done by men with strong mature bodies to those done by 13-15 yo girls with small bodies is just a bit ridiculous. The chances of getting hurt is far greater with the girls because their bodies are growing, and that affects their jumping abilities, even with triples, let alone quads.

 

[Giltedge]

Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but I wanted to quickly drop in and give another viewpoint on this: this is indeed very personal and I am in no way trying to judge or criticize, but rather to see this from a child's perspective. I was held back by my own family for similar reasons and it was (still is) a painful and frustrating experience. I dreamt of skating competitively and had the motivation to work hard for it, but my parents only allowed me to skate recreationally, would stop my practice after just one or two falls out of fear of injury, banned me from joining a club, having regular lessons or attempting even small local competitions. Now I am turning 23, still as motivated as I used to be, finally living independently and able to practice as much as I always wanted, but it is too late to reach elite level (or even a non-elite level that I could be truly happy with). Not a single session goes by without me getting frustrated over my slow progress, and wondering where I would be if I had been free to train hard from a young age. Maybe I'd have failed, gotten injured or retired already, but at least I would have had the opportunity to give it my best shot, without any regrets or what if's. So please think carefully before breaking a child's dream without letting them have a say in it... if they were truly determined and passionate about their goal, the frustration and resentment it leads to might end up being more painful for them than an injury or a disappointing competition result.

This sentiment, regarding childhood opportunities and their transience, comes across strikingly in Eteri Tutberidze's more expansive interviews, where she alludes to that day in Oklahoma City, 19.4.95, and the profound impact it had on her outlook and thoughts about dreams, opportunities and fate. EG could literally smell the flesh of burning children that day. EG's drive and dedication and the achievements of hers and her team and students continue to inspire uncountable thousands of children - across Russia, neighbouring countries in Europe and Asia, and beyond to all continents - to get on to the ice and compete, as well as inspiring parents to support their children's dreams, and administrations and schools to expand access and facilities.

 

[lurkerghost1]

Samodelkina will go all in at nationals and try 3A and 3 different quads in the FS. Really excited to see how she does.

Actually I hope she sticks to just the 4T and 4S in the free skate at least at Junior nationals like she’s done lately. She has a bit of a history of mistakes at the nationals just like Mishina/Galliamov. The 3A and 4Lz seem unstable especially compared to 4S, and Sofia Samo absolutely needs to get to Junior worlds to guarantee a top 24 season best and with it a Grand Prix next year.

I guess at senior nationals the stakes are lower so she can afford to try more elements. But the upside seems low too, it won’t do anything for her. Frolova and Nugumanova are the last two 6th place finishers and they got no GPs

 

[alexocfp]

Actually I hope she sticks to just the 4T and 4S in the free skate at least at Junior nationals like she’s done lately. She has a bit of a history of mistakes at the nationals just like Mishina/Galliamov. The 3A and 4Lz seem unstable especially compared to 4S, and Sofia Samo absolutely needs to get to Junior worlds to guarantee a top 24 season best and with it a Grand Prix next year.

I guess at senior nationals the stakes are lower so she can afford to try more elements. But the upside seems low too, it won’t do anything for her. Frolova and Nugumanova are the last two 6th place finishers and they got no GPs

I’m a fan of hers, but I have to admit the selectors were right in not picking Little Liza for GP spots. Hasn’t done anything this year to warrant them.

If we are objective, she actually regressed this season.

 

[RatedPG]

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Daria arriving back in Russia ; she was so cute, bowing down to show respect, as she just came back from Japan.

I hope she will be back with vengeance next season. I will miss her. Such an unfortunate injury

 

[Arbitrary]

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Daria arriving back in Russia ; she was so cute, bowing down to show respect, as she just came back from Japan.

I hope she will be back with vengeance next season. I will miss her. Such an unfortunate injury

Daria was in a wheelchair. AFAIK an injury of broken hip bone kind can be moved on a stretcher only.

 

[Sjs5572]

So the answer is no, you don't?

The evidence is so overwhelming that no line by line stat defense is needed. However, feel free to provide exact stats that support your view, i.e. that Ultra C is no more dangerous for women (girls) than men. Anyhow, it does not matter what I say; I am confident that TPTB will address this issue the off-season.

 

[nussnacker]

Comparing jumps done by men with strong mature bodies to those done by 13-15 yo girls with small bodies is just a bit ridiculous. The chances of getting hurt is far greater with the girls because their bodies are growing, and that affects their jumping abilities, even with triples, let alone quads.

Nathan Chen started landing quads in competition at a ripe mature age of 15-16, when he was a full grown man apparently. 3A as early as 13.
Hanyu’s first in competition 4T? Age 15, not even 16 yet in 2010. Mature adult body right there!
Boyang Jin at 14-15. All of this doesn’t take into account when they started landing it in practice.
Stephen Gogolev landed his first quads in practice at 10.
Most current renown men jumpers started landing quads and 3A quite early.


It’s a bit ridiculous that there’s some constant assumption that some things are more dangerous for women/girls than they are for men/boys, even when boys start all of it at around the same age. Not to mentioned puberty for boys happens differently than for girls, and girls start “maturing” a bit earlier.

There is certainly some truth that there is a physical advantage that an average male has over an average female. But this applies to all sports.
Reminds me that there were times when women were advised against using trains, because there was a misconception that the “insane” speed the train was going at was too dangerous for their fragile bodies.

 

[Draculus]

Comparing jumps done by men with strong mature bodies to those done by 13-15 yo girls with small bodies is just a bit ridiculous. The chances of getting hurt is far greater with the girls because their bodies are growing, and that affects their jumping abilities, even with triples, let alone quads.

It's quite the opposite, they have less mass, less jump height -> less velocity on impact and less kinetic energy.
Plus younger bodies heals faster and better

If adults were running and falling at the same rate as children - half of them break something for sure

 

[Draculus]

The evidence is so overwhelming that no line by line stat defense is needed. However, feel free to provide exact stats that support your view, i.e. that Ultra C is no more dangerous for women (girls) than men. Anyhow, it does not matter what I say; I am confident that TPTB will address this issue the off-season.

Even if you truly believe that something is true (like god exists) and you do not need any proofs, please, be honest and just accept the absence of proofs. It really helps.

 

[Jontor]

The evidence is so overwhelming that no line by line stat defense is needed. However, feel free to provide exact stats that support your view, i.e. that Ultra C is no more dangerous for women (girls) than men. Anyhow, it does not matter what I say; I am confident that TPTB will address this issue the off-season.

I must have missed that "overwhelming" evidence.

 

[Draculus]

There is certainly some truth that there is a physical advantage that an average male has over an average female. But this applies to all sports.
Reminds me that there were times when women were advised against using trains, because there was a misconception that the “insane” speed the train was going at was too dangerous for their fragile bodies.

Well, not so long ago (like 50 years) marathon was forbidden for women. For the same reasons.

 

[nussnacker]

Actually I hope she sticks to just the 4T and 4S in the free skate at least at Junior nationals like she’s done lately. She has a bit of a history of mistakes at the nationals just like Mishina/Galliamov. The 3A and 4Lz seem unstable especially compared to 4S, and Sofia Samo absolutely needs to get to Junior worlds to guarantee a top 24 season best and with it a Grand Prix next year.

I guess at senior nationals the stakes are lower so she can afford to try more elements. But the upside seems low too, it won’t do anything for her. Frolova and Nugumanova are the last two 6th place finishers and they got no GPs

What Sofia needs most is making it to JrWorlds, medaling and earning a very good SB score. This will ensure her GPs. Her result at senior nationals isn’t as important.

Tbh, I wish she would focus on skating clean at JrNationals and using Nationals as a practice, skating with a content she aims to perform at JrNats. If she doesn’t medal at JrNats and misses out on JrWorlds, a big chance she’s not going senior next season, because her SB currently isn’t super high.

Not so much depends on senior nationals as of now, but JrNats will be very decisive for next season.

 

[Jontor]

What Sofia needs most is making it to JrWorlds, medaling and earning a very good SB score. This will ensure her GPs. Her result at senior nationals isn’t as important.

Tbh, I wish she would focus on skating clean at JrNationals and using Nationals as a practice, skating with a content she aims to perform at JrNats. If she doesn’t medal at JrNats and misses out on JrWorlds, a big chance she’s not going senior next season, because her SB currently isn’t super high.

Not so much depends on senior nationals as of now, but JrNats will be very decisive for next season.

Totally agree. As the 12th Russian girl on the SB list right now, her only chance to improve that is Junior Worlds. Finishing top 3 at Junior Nats will be crucial. I hope her luck changes, because she has a history of 4th places...

 

[Jontor]

Looks like Akatieva travelled to Perm for no reason. She was supposed to compete in seniors stage 5, but then they realized she is too young. Apparently the rules for the RC stages has changed and you must be 14 before 1st of July.