No, they should have send Ilia instead of Jason based on wishful thinking that he'll do as good as at Nationals and get the same over scoring as at Nationals and because Jason is "not competitive". Lol
Why wasn't Malinin selected for the Olympics?
- Thread starter iceskating21
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Jason was over scored at nationals too
Yeah, but his PCS internationally are one of the highest. If Ilia fails only on part of the quads, he goes down. Jason was never less than top 9 at any of the Worlds Championships he has participated in and Olympics. And he even bombed programs.
That’s assuming Ilia falls. He didn’t there. Ilia skates a program like that at the Olympics in team finals do you really think he won’t get a very good score.
He wasn’t given PCs that were ridiculous but more decent PCs a New senior would get for that kind of skate.
People screamed about Polina PCs rise at nationals but she ended up getting similar PCs at worlds.
Jason and Nathan were literally given 10s in the free with mistakes which is quite literally against the rules.
Ilia skates like that international and Jason does what he did the margin between them might very well have been greater.
Ilia wasn’t given ridiculous PCs here.
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But who will look Ross in the eyes!??
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I don’t want to argue nationals really didn’t matter, but my opinion is results didn’t matter this time. Nathan, Vincent, and Jason had great Grand Prix results, all three making final, so the criteria suggested it would be these three on the Olympic team barring any complete implosion. If Brown or Zhou had disastrous nationals, it’d be different.
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Yes Jason was given 10s in the free (3 of them, all by one judge). But Nathan got zero 10s in his freeskate protocol. I agree that 10s with a mistake is wrong.
Nathan, Vincent and Jason were given multiple 10s in the short... even Ilia got one 10 in the short. But I thought all the shorts were pretty wonderful.
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Ilya didn't make the team due to the criteria. But also due to Brown being a veteran fave, as well as having GP medals (and even qualifying for the GPF) this season.
A sample size of one event does not really make someone unequivocally the best choice. It's not like US Nationals has been the critical factor in choosing a team (examples include Wagner over Nagasu to Rippon over Miner), and BOW is considering. Unfortunately, Malinin has pretty much zero body of work to look at, so a singular (albeit very impressive) result at Nationals isn't enough to tip the scales over someone like Brown who has consistently been in the medal mix on the Grand Prix even if his lack of a quad prevents him from hitting the World or Olympic individual podium (unless everyone bombed like in Sochi where Brown could have medaled).
Ilia is 17 years old and health permitting can literally show up to 2, maybe even 3, more Olympics. He hasn't even started his senior GP career yet.
A sample size of one event does not really make someone unequivocally the best choice. It's not like US Nationals has been the critical factor in choosing a team (examples include Wagner over Nagasu to Rippon over Miner), and BOW is considering. Unfortunately, Malinin has pretty much zero body of work to look at, so a singular (albeit very impressive) result at Nationals isn't enough to tip the scales over someone like Brown who has consistently been in the medal mix on the Grand Prix even if his lack of a quad prevents him from hitting the World or Olympic individual podium (unless everyone bombed like in Sochi where Brown could have medaled).
Ilia is 17 years old and health permitting can literally show up to 2, maybe even 3, more Olympics. He hasn't even started his senior GP career yet.
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Zhou very literally did have a nationals disaster. He barely rotated a single jump in the FS (even if there is a blind/subjective tech panel).
And honestly, Jason is one of my favourite skaters. He really is. But reality is, Olympic figure skating is a sport. They should put their chips behind those with most potential of medalling.
Everybody says Ilia can go in 2026. But what if he can't? They have this young talented skater jumping multiple quads at nationals. It'd be good to send him to olympics firstly to get the experience for 2026, and secondly as he has huge scoring potential for 2022 in a field of inconsistent men. And with injuries, there is no guarantees.
Feds should always put their chips behind talented skaters. It's olympics - nothing is on the line. They won't risk worlds/europeans/olympics spots from their decision. Everything to gain, and nothing to lose. Send skaters who are gonna be in it for the top places, even if they might bomb.
Quads aren't the be all and end all, but as I said before: it's a sport. You can watch videos of somebody's clean sp anytime and enjoy it, but that doesn't make them a competitive skater when lacking typical technical arsenol. If it were a performing art it'd be about shows, but this is about real competition.
Yes, Jason is one of the best artists to grace the ice. And yes hes one of the best spinners (although recently he's made me question that along with all TCC skaters training in Canada who clearly aren't spending enough time on spins). But at same time, he will have a maximum cap that is much lower than Ilia because of the lack of the tech arsenal.
I love Jason as I've said before, and I mean no insult to him whatsoever, but I think USfed made wrong decision with Ilia.
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Unfortunately they boxed themselves in with the selection criteria and had to send Vincent, who had the weakest free skate by a long shot.
Regarding Jason and this being a sport and all, below is what I posted in the Olympic selection thread at post 645:
You are generally a reasonable person, but I totally disagree with your point of view, and I’m gonna make the same kind of response here that I would make in court:
Below is a link to the criteria for PCS. There is nothing in it that ties program components to quads. Nothing. The ISU was perfectly capable of specifying that programs without quads are capped in PCS if that’s what they wanted to do, but they did not. If you think that a change should be made to PCS criteria you can certainly lobby for it, but right now that cap doesn’t exist. Quads are supposed to be rewarded through higher base values and proportionately higher GOE when they’re well executed. The fact that judges frequently throw high PCS and GOE like candy at quad jumpers may be reflective of their personal preferences, but it is not based on anything in the rules.
https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/sandp-handbooks-faq/26060-program-component-chart-2021/file
One more thing, and this is directed broadly, not just to you. I’ve been trying really hard not to respond to all the comments here and elsewhere repeatedly dissing Jason for not having mastered a quad and bemoaning the fact he was selected over Ilia.
If you read the article El Henry linked in one of her comments above, you’ll see it’s not for lack of trying that he hasn’t mastered quads.
Within a given sport, every athlete has different strengths and weaknesses. I have never heard anyone criticize a star wide receiver for not having the accurate arm of a star quarterback. It’s acknowledged that they both have contributions to make, and that they play the positions best suited to their strengths. It’s the same in music: some musicians excel in one area or one kind of repertoire but not another. They aren’t criticized for it; indeed, it’s widely accepted.
Yet in skating, Jason is criticized essentially because he’s not Nathan Chen. Everyone has likes and dislikes and it’s perfectly normal. But the inability to acknowledge differences and to value different talents is a huge problem as far as I’m concerned. Jason is not just a “beautiful” skater who’s second rate because he hasn’t mastered quads. He’s a superb athlete whose programs are incredibly technically challenging without quads. I’m not aware of any other skater currently competing who could perform his Sinnerman program. According to his choreographer, Rohene Ward, the program is so taxing that he breathes a sigh of relief every time he gets through it. Regardless of whether you like Jason’s kind of skating, he is not a second rate athlete. He’s just a different one.
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I don't think this is necessarily the case (although there are probably those who think Jason not doing quads is disqualifying). The problem is that there is a hard ceiling on the PCS scores, so Jason can skate well but his placement is really determined how well the others perform because, if they have quads, they can top his TES score by 20 or 30 points, whereas he doesn't have that PCS margin over the top contenders. He'll lose to anyone who hits the quads (as three did at Nationals) and will finish ahead of most who fail on those jumps. Personally, I don't think that makes a very compelling case to send someone to an event where only medals matter to the USFSA/USOC, but obviously others disagree.
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Great Post. I am full agreement.
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Yes, I understand your point of view, but there are many people in this thread (not saying you or Kolyadafan) and the other thread who have made nasty comments like “he can’t even land as many quads as one of the Eteri girls, he has novice girl content” or “maybe he should just do a double Axel” blah blah blah.
There’s no doubt that under the current scoring system, Jason is at a distinct disadvantage to skaters like Nathan, etc. Even so, he’s frequently finished ahead of guys with multiple quads and has earned quite a few medals (including silver at 4CC in 2020) because yeah, a lot of quad guys frequently have bad days. No reason to think that the Olympics will be an exception, is there?
The other thing is, Jason has frequently shown himself to be a gritty, reliable competitor in less than ideal circumstances, most recently at Nats. We don’t know how other competitors there would have handled having to do a SP less than 24 hours after he arriving following a 33 hour trip from Toronto and multiple flight cancellations, or having to do a FS the next day without his coach bc she tested positive for Covid. We do know, though, that even with all that plus the specter of his failure in 2018, Jason stood up to the pressure beautifully. I personally think that’s an important quality for an Olympian and I’m really happy for him.
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It doesn't matter if Jason were to be given the maximum PCS possible in both the SP and LP. He still wouldn't medal at the Olympics, because the tech score is not going to be high enough.
Ilia on the other hand, at least has the potential to medal. Because Quads. And when you landed many Quads cleanly and have a nice face, you get competitive PCS.
Ilia on the other hand, at least has the potential to medal. Because Quads. And when you landed many Quads cleanly and have a nice face, you get competitive PCS.
Yep plus it’s not like this is a case with Evan where only one or two guys are doing quads consistently.
There is way to Many of them sure a few will make mistakes but..:some won’t
I also think, they should have send Ilia, because he was just so much better from a sportive perspective and is full of potential. Olymics is a sport competition not a show.
Brown is cleary a PCS skater, the best in the world. But than what I don't understand: why not changing the programms? Of course they are close to perfection, the sp more than the fs. But the wow factor is gone after so many repetitions. I guess the hope in keeping both programs was to up the technical contest. He didn't succeed in that and he didn't devlope artistically eighter. he played it safe and he lost to an up comming talent. Thats sport.
Brown is cleary a PCS skater, the best in the world. But than what I don't understand: why not changing the programms? Of course they are close to perfection, the sp more than the fs. But the wow factor is gone after so many repetitions. I guess the hope in keeping both programs was to up the technical contest. He didn't succeed in that and he didn't devlope artistically eighter. he played it safe and he lost to an up comming talent. Thats sport.
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Thanks for the laugh! That's hilarious!Well, Jason v. Vincent has died down somewhat, so something needed to take its place.Here is my handy dandy guide for posting whenever Jason is chosen for any comp over any other skater:
I can't believe USFS selected Jason Brown over Skater X for Competition Y. Skater X is the future of skating. He jumps quads with the greatest of ease. He can leap tall buildings in a single bound.
Brown is a hack who has done nothing in the past <insert number> years. Every medal he has won was a fluke. I don't see artistry so of course if I don't see, he doesn't have it. Jumping quads is the very future of our sport and the key to millions/thousands/whatever of people watching! Brown is useless if he can't jump quads. We don't live in the 1990s/2000s/1950s. Wake up and smell the rinkside coffee.
I have read variations of this post many times, and I am sure I will read it many times more. I give free license for anyone to use this one if they don't feel like writing their own.
If I were on the selection panel, it would have been easy for me - using the criteria. Jason, Nathan, and Vincent were advantaged because they were able to compete and do well on Grand Prix…and have senior level top 10 season (and all-time) scores. Vincent and Nathan also have top 5 scores (3rd and 1st, respectively).
Ilia looks like everything is clicking right now, but the 222 (I think) he scored at Cup of Austria - and the poor Short Program (13th, 67 pts) - didn’t help…even if it was his first senior outing of the season - it was November. I think he ran out of time to demonstrate his ability to deliver a top 10 senior score among international judges.
