A Kermit?
2022 Olympics Team Event Day1: Rhythm Dance
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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I'm not surprised that Piper and Paul are in 4th place. I love them, I really do, but this Elton John program is not the best concept. Either have your music match the costumes or not at all. This rant is coming from someone who grew up watching 80s and early 90s videos on MTV, so that's my reference point.
[Rant alert}! First of all, the costumes do NOT go with the music (I got into an argument with someone on Youtube who insisted I was WRONG). Elton was super flashy in the 1970s, as it was the glam rock era and a bright orange jumpsuit would fit in with a song like Bennie and the Jets or Friday Night's All right etc.
He has carried some flashiness into the subsequent decades but the two songs that were chosen (I'm still standing/I guess that's why they call it the blues) were from his 1983 album Too Low for Zero. Elton also wore different colored suits with straw hats in his videos for these two songs. I think PnP could've had their costumes more in line with the suit look from those videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6KYAVn8ons - Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHwVBirqD2s - Standing
For a contrast, the #1 team, H/D lifted their military inspired costume design right out of JJ"s Rhythm Nation video. A tad too literal, but FS costumes work best when you recognize the theme right away before they start to skate. When I first saw PnP's costumes, I thought they were skating to ABBA!
[Rant alert}! First of all, the costumes do NOT go with the music (I got into an argument with someone on Youtube who insisted I was WRONG). Elton was super flashy in the 1970s, as it was the glam rock era and a bright orange jumpsuit would fit in with a song like Bennie and the Jets or Friday Night's All right etc.
He has carried some flashiness into the subsequent decades but the two songs that were chosen (I'm still standing/I guess that's why they call it the blues) were from his 1983 album Too Low for Zero. Elton also wore different colored suits with straw hats in his videos for these two songs. I think PnP could've had their costumes more in line with the suit look from those videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6KYAVn8ons - Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHwVBirqD2s - Standing
For a contrast, the #1 team, H/D lifted their military inspired costume design right out of JJ"s Rhythm Nation video. A tad too literal, but FS costumes work best when you recognize the theme right away before they start to skate. When I first saw PnP's costumes, I thought they were skating to ABBA!
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- Feb 3, 2021
Yes I agree. They have not been anywhere near their best all season! This year I actually thought S and B had the better freedance too. Really interesting and beautiful dance.
haha, yes, that was a really good one! I know next to nothing about ice dance, yet I know you should always watch Katsalapov's twizzles, tooI love how Belinda was like “And these are the twizzles where one must always watch Katsalapov….”
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The biggest problem with the program is the same that's wrong with nearly all of them. It's not "street."
The ISU's "street dance" criteria is so broad that a team could claim that ballet and polka could be performed outdoors, so they count.
In general, these programs are cringe-worthy (sure, a few exceptions). Piper and Paul made it worse with those cutesy choreographed bows they did. I like them, but they looked ridiculous. I don't know what street they live on where people do stuff like that.
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I just watched the Rhythm dance in the Team event, and here's my views (feel free to skip if you don't agree).
I can't help it, I don't like Katharina and Tim's RD. It's got that 'fall' which has irritated me from the beginning of the season. It is different, that's true, but being different does not always make something good.
Oleksandra and Maksims's dance is just a bit boring. Sorry to the fans.
Maria and Georgy are not back on track yet. It wasn't bad, just not as good as I hoped. I realise they've had some problems this season (injuries) but that doesn't count on the day.
Misato and Tim did great for their level, but they really are just a second rate dance team. No offence intended, just not fantastic in the scheme of things.
Natalie and Filip were lovely. Interesting dance. They need a few more years, but their RD was enjoyable.
I love Shiyue and Xinyu's interpretation of elvis music. Such fun. Maybe not the most sophisticated of Dancers but their interpretation of the music is top notch. Really a Dance to enjoy.
I love Piper and Paul, as they always manage to show something different while keeping a high standard in the elements. But not so much today? I've seen them do this dance better - and it has nothing to do with Pipers sudden dress/skirt.
Charlene and Marco were just fabulous. I've never seen them execute this dance so well before. Kudos!
Victoria and Nikita were overmarked. Nikita made mistakes (poor guy, I'm sure his back problems had something to do with that) but even wothout those: it was just sloppy and not engaging. And then to get so many points? Don't get me wrong, they can be really good (they're not WC and EC for nothing) but today they got points on reputation, not what they showed.
I tend to like a certain other USA couple more than this one, but wowsa, weren't Madison and Zachary the stars in this event? A fantastic RD, so entertaining, so inspiring. Rightful winners of the event. Whatever happens next, these two can always say they did what they had to do and more in this event. Congrats.
I can't help it, I don't like Katharina and Tim's RD. It's got that 'fall' which has irritated me from the beginning of the season. It is different, that's true, but being different does not always make something good.
Oleksandra and Maksims's dance is just a bit boring. Sorry to the fans.
Maria and Georgy are not back on track yet. It wasn't bad, just not as good as I hoped. I realise they've had some problems this season (injuries) but that doesn't count on the day.
Misato and Tim did great for their level, but they really are just a second rate dance team. No offence intended, just not fantastic in the scheme of things.
Natalie and Filip were lovely. Interesting dance. They need a few more years, but their RD was enjoyable.
I love Shiyue and Xinyu's interpretation of elvis music. Such fun. Maybe not the most sophisticated of Dancers but their interpretation of the music is top notch. Really a Dance to enjoy.
I love Piper and Paul, as they always manage to show something different while keeping a high standard in the elements. But not so much today? I've seen them do this dance better - and it has nothing to do with Pipers sudden dress/skirt.
Charlene and Marco were just fabulous. I've never seen them execute this dance so well before. Kudos!
Victoria and Nikita were overmarked. Nikita made mistakes (poor guy, I'm sure his back problems had something to do with that) but even wothout those: it was just sloppy and not engaging. And then to get so many points? Don't get me wrong, they can be really good (they're not WC and EC for nothing) but today they got points on reputation, not what they showed.
I tend to like a certain other USA couple more than this one, but wowsa, weren't Madison and Zachary the stars in this event? A fantastic RD, so entertaining, so inspiring. Rightful winners of the event. Whatever happens next, these two can always say they did what they had to do and more in this event. Congrats.
I do not know. Do you have proof of that, please?
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????!!!!!
Woman must eat, buy skates, ice time, costumes, etc.
Loved seeing Madi and Evan in Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson's "I Dare You" video for the opening ceremony.
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I am quoting your post but I could have quoted so many others who have mentioned the orange costumes. Nothing personal.
I think the costumes are fun. I like them. Yes, they are not accurate but I am not sure we needed another fuchsia or suit costume... these were in your face, lighthearted and quirky !
My point though : figure skating while being entertaining, using music, themes and costumes, is a sport... not a fashion show. Skaters should not be judged differently because of what they wear... This is not just about Piper and Paul. It gets tiring that this is all people write about.
What about their blades? Their leg extension? Their deep knees? Their very impressive twizzles that covered so much ice and were so in synch (yet only scored level 3s?) I feel that a lot of people are happy to blast some skaters on their costumes because they cannot fault them for their skating. (not saying you did that at all)
Also, after having a second look at PCS : judges liked Piper and Paul. They didn't get their levels here... though Carol Lane said it was their best skate of that RD this year, they were perhaps a bit stiff or cautious.
I am not sure we will see Canada in the FD and if so, who knows if they will skate or be replaced to rest.. but I certainly hope that their skating will be appreciated and valued, no matter what they wear or what music they chose. They offer something very special and have not been rewarded easily like some other teams.
The theme for RD is street dance, which included a wide range of dances including swing. Midnight Blues is one of the required dance patterns.
S/K are skilled skaters, except Nikita’s twizzles, but that RD is not medal worthy. It lacks originality compared to other top 6 teams and Nikita reminds me of a lecherous old man in that shirt, creepy. Their scores have been high even when they make mistakes. Check out their 2021 Grand Prix competitions compared to other to 6 teams.
It's an interesting point about whether costumes matter and whether they should. Makes me think of 2018 and Dutch gymnast Celine van Gerner wearing cat makeup for her floor routine. Not long after, "theatrical or character makeup" was banned, supported by pretty much the same argument you make but extended to its extreme. Gymnastics solved it by making it go away.
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I am sure a lot of people would like the costumes to go away
Ok.. easy joke... but yes. I agree with your comment. I am fine with costumes being used : i cannot imagine figure skaters just wearing speed skating like outfits like it's been attempted before I also don't think the ISU wants to add rules to the sport... all I am asking is that skaters do not get bashed because they have a daring orange fashion sense I agree that it shouldn't be legislated either way. But I wonder. Is it the same kind of risk/reward you face when you choose music that is somehow polarizing? That negative reaction that we (and judges) instinctively feel (or positive, for that matter) really can't be avoided whether addressed in the rules or not.
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Yes, NK ran into V/M, causing not only visible bruising but a cut on TV's leg at the NHK trophy. Not only did he not apologize at all, TV was asked about it multiple times afterwards because it was visible. She just kind of laughed it off and said she was sure it wasn't intentional, things happen.
Compare that with how NK reacted when H/D brushed VS. The point is that the kettle shouldn't call the pot black, especially with a reputation of partners, coaches, and facilities dissociating themselves with NK due to incidents of behavior, some quite serious.
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Seriously? The proof stares you in the face, even during this latest team competition. Do you think if Madi/Zach had made the slightest misstep that they wouldn't have been dropped behind both the Italians and the Canadians? But Nikita can make a sloppy mistake and still be held up in second place. SinKats have never had the best material either, but somehow they are supposed to be on top? Obviously, SinKats have improved from where they were when they first partnered. But they are not overall better than P/C, H/D, C/B, and in some aspects not completely better than G/P and G/F. Certainly in this team event, SinKats' material was not as good as that of H/D, G/F or G/P, and Nikita made an obvious mistake while the other teams were visibly cleaner.
The push for both SinKats and Step/Buk started right after 2018 Olympics, if not before. But it certainly began in earnest once the Shibs retired and V/M left the scene after winning their second Olympic gold. It's not a mystery that Russia has chafed at not being on top in ice dance for a number of years. They simply didn't have a team who could compete well with what V/M, D/W, the Shibs, C/B and later H/D and P/C could do. Rusfed and Zhulin tried their best to push up Bobrova/Soloviev, but they could only push them so far, since they did not have the best skills, despite improving a bit over the years.
Had Nikita stayed partnered with Elena, they would have been highly competitive with the top NA and French teams during the 2014 - 2018 period, but that didn't happen. Nikita chose to start over with a partner who did not have the same talent Elena had. Vika also had to catch up with Nikita, and that process took time.
If you follow ice dance and you aren't ignoring or excusing the politics and public trash-talk from certain Russians, their stance and motivations are clear. It's been obvious by the bold-faced, offensive comments made in some quarters (by Russians) against NA ice dancers, that they have tried to push up the stock of S/K and S/B, while talking down NA teams.
Once again, this has nothing to do with any conspiracy. It doesn't rise to that level necessarily. Politicking, creating buzz, and influencing perceptions, as well as bloc judging, consensus judging, and the behind-the-scenes deal-making in the bad old, good old days, is simply part of the sport. The sport evolved from the very beginning with questionable judging practices, when there was sometimes only 2 to 3 skaters competing in those early disciplines, and only a handful of countries taking part. Problems with judging, especially in such a subjective sport have been endemic since forever. It's all part of the fabric of the sport, which is why it's so hard to change, and why everyone shrugs their shoulders in resignation, acceptance, or denial that questionable judging practices exist.
While the IJS/CoP scoring system changed things to bend more toward fairness, the pattern of political judging, rep-based judging and sometimes outright cheating certainly did not go away (e.g., notorious foot-tapping Russian judge who was suspended with a slap on the wrist, and later reinstated; a Chinese official was suspended recently and also later reinstated). And now, of course, there's the added issue of manipulated PCS, with range scoring utilized to manage desired placements. It's often laughable and head-shaking when looking closely at PCS scoring. This is not meant to condemn all of the judges, many of whom try to do their best. They simply don't have appropriate tools, resources, time, expertise and effective training available to them, so they have to do the best they are able with the current system as it stands.
So many letters with zero proof of corruption. No court will hold it.
And who reminds you Madison, may I ask?
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