2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating | Page 407 | Golden Skate

2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

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Sure, that's possible for countries with a lot of depth (Japan, Korea, Russia and the US), but at least 2 of the countries you mentioned don't have that (Georgia and China), which is why I assumed you meant top skaters (of at least these countries).

And even within countries with a lot of depth, skaters will still be put into uncomfortable situations to choose between international competitions in this new league you proposed or retaining ISU-eligibility. In Russia, the top skaters are indeed far enough removed that it's almost impossible for skaters like Nastya Guliakova to catch up, but in Japan, Korea and the US, the technical level of the top skaters is not so much higher than that of the skaters ranked outside of the top 10. Gaining consistency and favour of the federation, as well as some of the top skaters retiring or going through a rough patch would be enough to allow previously lower-ranked to become top skaters in their country - And if they're not ISU-eligible, that could mean missing out on a once-in-a-lifetime chance of making it to the Olympics despite being competitive enough.

The thing is, there are tons of smaller ISU competitions that are open to anyone and allow unlimited entries per discipline for each ISU member, but many of the skaters just outside of the top 10 or 20 don't take advantage of these competitions (or at least not the Russian skaters). Instead, it is often skaters far removed from the top that show up here (I mean skaters that don't even make it to Russian Cup stages).

Do you think that lower-ranked skaters will be more willing to compete in this new league? Will they have to be baited by more exposure or better price money than those ISU competitions? From what it seems, one of your goals would be to allow as many skaters as possible the opportunity to compete internationally, but that could become really expensive (in price money and organisational costs) really quick.
And if everyone can enter, will lower-ranked skaters from other nations be interested in competing in this new league when they'll have to compete against the top Russian skaters and/or an unlimited number of very good Russians (because the depth in Russian skating is extremely deep)?

Don't get me wrong, it's not necessarily a bad idea, but there would definitely be big obstacles in the way to creating such a parallel organisation to the ISU.
It's hard to say because everything is unknown. It's probably a long shot to do something like having another organization for favorite skating but a lot of the B level &c or the skaters are left twiddling their thumbs.
I hope the Russians get back as soon as possible but it's all up in the air for who knows how long. I'm someone who doesn't like a lot of sports anymore they've gotten to political and such. I like saying the underdogs make it in figure skating so I would not be adverse to following an event that did not have the top guns.

I am sure there would be major obstacles to creating a parallel organization to the International skating Union. Maybe they can start off with a lower level or something for just challenge your level competition. I don't know what's going to happen but if the Russians are gonna be banned for like 2 or 3 years they as well try to do something else.
I wouldn't even put it like they're taking away from the ISU that organization is still probably going to have its top skaters I'm talking about the 2nd and 3rd To your skaters who don't get a lot about opportunities. I don't know if the money could be there to create another should you're skating organization. Just trying to run some idea of my people.
 
That’s just paperwork. You can take care of these bans in court. Bring the lawyers and take them to school.

The ISU deserves no loyalty since they don’t show it back.

This is as good a time as any to break up this corrupt cartel and move the sport forward.

I was calling for Russia pull out of the ISU way before this situation. Stupid quotas and outdated rules and regulations.

Little did I know how much I would enjoy not having competitions spoiled by entrants that were there just because they were from a certain country and not because of skill or merit.

I never thought I would say this, but personally it will be a sad day when Russia gets back in with the ISU.

Get to enjoy my competitions like the St Petersburg championships without having to hear about doping, tough training methods or how evil Eteri is, or whatever other nonsense comes to mind. It’s beautiful. A mutually beneficial d

Cartel? Powerful comments Alex. But pull out of the isu for what? We would need something in place. Like you I like the smaller competitions in cities like Saint Petersburg but that would need to be expanded a lot and even outside of the country to include other countries and some kind of new organization for figure skating.

There are various reasons why but the Olympics don't mean as much as they used to. But try telling that to Anna the Olympic champion or Alina the Olympic champion.

The court for arbitration in sport is supposed to hear the case about banning Russian figure skaters and Russian athletes for science shouldn't athletes for something the leader of their country is doing. Legally there is a lack of precedent for that so they should win that. Then what? I mean I want to see Anna and sasha in Moore International competitions next season and the season after that. I think they would find it hard for motivation to have just domestic competitions the next year or 2.
 
Cartel? Powerful comments Alex. But pull out of the isu for what? We would need something in place. Like you I like the smaller competitions in cities like Saint Petersburg but that would need to be expanded a lot and even outside of the country to include other countries and some kind of new organization for figure skating.

There are various reasons why but the Olympics don't mean as much as they used to. But try telling that to Anna the Olympic champion or Alina the Olympic champion.

The court for arbitration in sport is supposed to hear the case about banning Russian figure skaters and Russian athletes for science shouldn't athletes for something the leader of their country is doing. Legally there is a lack of precedent for that so they should win that. Then what? I mean I want to see Anna and sasha in Moore International competitions next season and the season after that. I think they would find it hard for motivation to have just domestic competitions the next year or 2.
Anna has tougher competition in her country than out of it. Heck she has tougher competition at her camp than out of the country.

One of the best ways to keep anyone motivated is money. Get some investors and get some good money in this sport. The ISU hasn’t done jack to grow the sport. 25,000 prizes for gold medals is quite insulting if you ask me.

Now is a good time to break the ISU monopoly. Don’t know why everyone respects them so much. The skaters are what make the sport great, not any governing body.

You can have international competitions without the ISU running it. I have no love for that organization. It’s detrimental to women’s figure skating.

As for the Olympics, Medvedeva didn’t win gold and she has done quite well for herself. Zagitova is marketable any way you slice it. She doesn’t need a medal to have a successful career.

Anna is headstrong to say the least. She will succeed in anything she puts her mind to.
 
The Olympics are not what they used to be if we are honest.

Back then, it was one of the few chances you had to watch international skaters. Now we seem them every week.

It goes for all sports actually.

And the declining ratings back me up.

There is no guarantee the next generation of skaters will see value in the Olympics. Especially if they can make good money without them.

Plus, the ice skating part of the Olympics, with the dumb quotas, ensures that the best aren’t there.

Forget what a person that just watches the Olympics and no other skating thinks. The real pinnacle of ladies figure skating in 2022 is the Russian Championships.
Once again, you are looking at this from a spectator's perspective. But look at it like this: The Olympics are only once every 4 years and Russian Nationals are every single year. Plus: As a Russian skater, making it to the Olympics is even more precious because they are competing against a very strong field for a very limited number of spots.

Let's take for example Evgenia Medvedeva. She competed in 16 Russian Championships if we include novice and junior championships. At the same time, she competed in only one Olympics. Is it hard to understand why she might feel like the Olympics were something special and more important than the Russian Championships? Especially because for so many skaters (and athletes in general), the Olympics come after years of hard work and after years of staying at the very top in their sport. It's like a reward for all of that hard work, and a motivation as well. If you've won Russian Nationals at 14 (like Anna for example), and that is as high as you can go, what else is there to strive for? What motivates you as an athlete?

Plus, it's easy for us to overlook just how much winning an Olympic medal can help athletes after they have ended their active careers, because we think "Oh, they're so well known anyways." or "Oh, they are so marketable." or whatever else. I do not think that Zhenya or Alina would have had as many sponsors and half as much attention inside and outside of Russia as they did if it hadn't been for the Olympics. (And it is not even necessarily just about the medals, look at how Kamila's following on IG developed and you'll see that most followers came after her Free in the individual event.)

And also, I doubt that the younger generation will feel much less strongly about the Olympics, considering how Sofia Samodelkina was literally praying every day for them to be postponed just that she could have a chance to even try and qualify for them when she is at her physical peak. You don't do that if you don't care about the Olympics.
 
Anna has tougher competition in her country than out of it. Heck she has tougher competition at her camp than out of the country.

One of the best ways to keep anyone motivated is money. Get some investors and get some good money in this sport. The ISU hasn’t done jack to grow the sport. 25,000 prizes for gold medals is quite insulting if you ask me.

Now is a good time to break the ISU monopoly. Don’t know why everyone respects them so much. The skaters are what make the sport great, not any governing body.

You can have international competitions without the ISU running it. I have no love for that organization. It’s detrimental to women’s figure skating.

As for the Olympics, Medvedeva didn’t win gold and she has done quite well for herself. Zagitova is marketable any way you slice it. She doesn’t need a medal to have a successful career.

Anna is headstrong to say the least. She will succeed in anything she puts her mind to.
Agreed all the way around.

The key is getting investors I wish these athletes could make more money than they do. I am not sure there has to be a separate organization in competition with the isu I am okay with that if that's the case but I would like to see something in place so the b-level skaters have somewhere to go in the future.
There just are not enough Challengers.

Of course money is the issue I don't know where they will get investors because the world isn't exactly in a good place for that actually how to do a S figure skating organization.

Hopefully the Russians will be back in competition in the fall but if not then they need a long-term Plan B.
 
Once again, you are looking at this from a spectator's perspective. But look at it like this: The Olympics are only once every 4 years and Russian Nationals are every single year. Plus: As a Russian skater, making it to the Olympics is even more precious because they are competing against a very strong field for a very limited number of spots.

Let's take for example Evgenia Medvedeva. She competed in 16 Russian Championships if we include novice and junior championships. At the same time, she competed in only one Olympics. Is it hard to understand why she might feel like the Olympics were something special and more important than the Russian Championships? Especially because for so many skaters (and athletes in general), the Olympics come after years of hard work and after years of staying at the very top in their sport. It's like a reward for all of that hard work, and a motivation as well. If you've won Russian Nationals at 14 (like Anna for example), and that is as high as you can go, what else is there to strive for? What motivates you as an athlete?

Plus, it's easy for us to overlook just how much winning an Olympic medal can help athletes after they have ended their active careers, because we think "Oh, they're so well known anyways." or "Oh, they are so marketable." or whatever else. I do not think that Zhenya or Alina would have had as many sponsors and half as much attention inside and outside of Russia as they did if it hadn't been for the Olympics. (And it is not even necessarily just about the medals, look at how Kamila's following on IG developed and you'll see that most followers came after her Free in the individual event.)

And also, I doubt that the younger generation will feel much less strongly about the Olympics, considering how Sofia Samodelkina was literally praying every day for them to be postponed just that she could have a chance to even try and qualify for them when she is at her physical peak. You don't do that if you don't care about the Olympics.
Good and well thought out post.

We might not see eye to eye on a few things here, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that this was a good read.

Obviously, I’m looking at it from a fan viewpoint since that’s what I am. You don’t want me being a competitor or near a rink even. Or maybe you do if you want to have a good laugh at me falling all over the place. Haha

Yes, you get more eyes on you at the Olympics since you get a lot of people that don’t follow the sport, but I would counter that those folks are just fleeting. The vast majority of your income is still coming from the skating fan.

Kamila is back to being “that Russian girl“ in the USA. Everyone moved on.

And the vast majority of international events the last few years were processions anyway.

It wasn’t who was going to win, but by how many points would Kamila and Anna destroy them by. The rest of the world is still far behind.

The discussion about Maiia earlier here really drove the point home. Her “bad” year wasn’t so bad after all.

From a fans‘ perspective, the Russian ladies is all you need to have a top class event. And, best case, a handful of others from outside Russia. Probably 5 or so (Kaori, Rika, and 2 or 3 South Koreans, and since I like them, Loena and Mikutina as my wildcards).

Speaking of, without the Russian ladies, the Olympics mean nothing, and a “world” championship without them is a glorified challenger event.

As a fan, this split weeding out the Russian lady skater haters is beyond awesome. So refreshing not having to focus on doping, or how everyone is being abused by the devil herself. I can‘t lie, as a fan I want to keep it as it is now. A world where the ISU is non existent.

Man, why couldn’t I have been a billionaire so I could pour money into this discipline as a labor or love? Wouldn’t be a billionaire for long doing that but you can’t take it with you when you go, right?
 
Good and well thought out post.

We might not see eye to eye on a few things here, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that this was a good read.

Obviously, I’m looking at it from a fan viewpoint since that’s what I am. You don’t want me being a competitor or near a rink even. Or maybe you do if you want to have a good laugh at me falling all over the place. Haha

Yes, you get more eyes on you at the Olympics since you get a lot of people that don’t follow the sport, but I would counter that those folks are just fleeting. The vast majority of your income is still coming from the skating fan.

Kamila is back to being “that Russian girl“ in the USA. Everyone moved on.

And the vast majority of international events the last few years were processions anyway.

It wasn’t who was going to win, but by how many points would Kamila and Anna destroy them by. The rest of the world is still far behind.

The discussion about Maiia earlier here really drove the point home. Her “bad” year wasn’t so bad after all.

From a fans‘ perspective, the Russian ladies is all you need to have a top class event. And, best case, a handful of others from outside Russia. Probably 5 or so (Kaori, Rika, and 2 or 3 South Koreans, and since I like them, Loena and Mikutina as my wildcards).

Speaking of, without the Russian ladies, the Olympics mean nothing, and a “world” championship without them is a glorified challenger event.

As a fan, this split weeding out the Russian lady skater haters is beyond awesome. So refreshing not having to focus on doping, or how everyone is being abused by the devil herself. I can‘t lie, as a fan I want to keep it as it is now. A world where the ISU is non existent.

Man, why couldn’t I have been a billionaire so I could pour money into this discipline as a labor or love? Wouldn’t be a billionaire for long doing that but you can’t take it with you when you go, right?
What do you mean by your Kamila comment she is that Russian girl and everyone in USA moved on?

I think Maya will be fine I think she needs more time than the other girls partly because she's so tall. And if the Russians are not skating internationally next season then that will hurt her development.

I wish you were a billionaire too.
 
Wow, just went back to look at her record this year.
What's there to wow, except GPin the beginning of the season? She polished the ice in Warsaw for that gold and came 8th in RusNats when people where saying last year that she is gunning for the 'old girls'. Not selected for Eu, not selected for Oly and no redemption skate in the last internal competition. Same falls, same unhappy mine.
 
What's there to wow, except GPin the beginning of the season? She polished the ice in Warsaw for that gold and came 8th in RusNats when people where saying last year that she is gunning for the 'old girls'. Not selected for Eu, not selected for Oly and no redemption skate in the last internal competition. Same falls, same unhappy mine.
Take Liza for instance. She wasn't selected for Euros and worlds. Between her 2015 worlds gold and 2018/19 season she had plenty of skates of very low quality. And even when she returned back among the russian elite, she still delivered numerous skates that lacked behind her potential. It is intersting how people condemn the "pressure" on skaters, the demands and so, but at the same time they start to conemn a skater, when the skater is not perfect all the time.

That Maiia wasn't selected for the Euros and olympics in the presence of Anya, Sasha, Kamila is hardly a mark of weakness. It's not like in Canada for instance where any below average skater has an instant access to ISU championships if she at least fulfills the technical criteria thanks to lack of valuable competitors in her own country. Maiia has my full respect. She knows she has such top quality comepetitors in her own country and she is aware of having flaws, but many times she is able to overcome them and deliver and win over much more celebrated skaters from abroad.
 
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What's there to wow, except GPin the beginning of the season? She polished the ice in Warsaw for that gold and came 8th in RusNats when people where saying last year that she is gunning for the 'old girls'. Not selected for Eu, not selected for Oly and no redemption skate in the last internal competition. Same falls, same unhappy mine.
If you expected Maya to be selected for Europeans Olympics and worlds this year you are mistaken. No one was going to put her in the top 4 of the Russian ladies. It's not a big deal to her career. I hope Maya makes it big but if she doesn't there's a lot of other girls around her age and a few even younger who have great potential.
 
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If you expected Maya to be selected for Europeans Olympics and worlds this year you are mistaken. No one was going to put her in the top 4 of the Russian ladies. It's not a big deal to her career. I hope Mia makes it big but if she doesn't there's a lot of other girlsAround her age and a few even younger who have great potential.
I actually wasn’t expecting it, in fact, I am surprised she is still around given how poor her consistency is and that she has nothing on offer that other women in Russian skating have more of. I just don’t get it. No spirit, no technical exceptionality, no outstanding skating skills, and… she is apparently still there? 🤷‍♀️ Like Tuktamysheva brings her solid 3A, artistic package you can debate the merits of but that is recognizably hers, and her exceptional age for Russia.
 
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I actually wasn’t expecting it, in fact, I am surprised she is still around given how poor her consistency is and that she has nothing on offer that other women in Russian skating have more of. I just don’t get it. No spirit, no technical exceptionality, no outstanding skating skills, and… she is apparently still there? 🤷‍♀️
Of course she is still around. Any coach would gobble her up in a heartbeat if she was leaving TT. Maya has plenty to offer. You will be proven wrong. She is doing fine. Not everybody can be Anna at 15 or Alina at 15 or Sasha at 15.

Maya is better than many countries number one ladies. She needs time to develop. She will get that time.
 
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Of course she is still around. Any coach would gobble her up in a heartbeat if she was leaving TT. Maya has plenty to offer. You will be proven wrong. She is doing fine. Not everybody can be Anna at 15 or Alina at 15 or Sasha at 15.

Maya is better than many countries number one ladies. She needs time to develop. She will get that time.
I was told that same thing last year when upon endless tries, Khromykh finally had that one skate where she landed a quad after manger many competitions that went like, Khromykh comes on ice, falls on quad… and this year is a repeat of the goes on ice, falls on quad, only with addition of falls on triples. If she wasn’t with Tutberidze, I doubt she would have seen those scores.
 
If you expected Maya to be selected for Europeans Olympics and worlds this year you are mistaken. No one was going to put her in the top 4 of the Russian ladies. It's not a big deal to her career. I hope Maya makes it big but if she doesn't there's a lot of other girls around her age and a few even younger who have great potential.
I'm pretty sure Maya would have been sent to the Worlds this year if Russians were not banned. Kamila and Sasha wouldn't compete.
 
Now is a good time to break the ISU monopoly. Don’t know why everyone respects them so much. The skaters are what make the sport great, not any governing body.

You can have international competitions without the ISU running it. I have no love for that organization. It’s detrimental to women’s figure skating.
I thought Russia with the help of China is planning to stage their own version of Grand prix? I would think that if these events push thru, ISU will take it as a direct threat to them.

Skaters with no GP assignments will probably welcome this but at the end of the day, their own federations which are ISU members will have the say if they can go or have to fund their own trip.

i would assume ISU and its members will do everything to prevent active skaters from attending these events.

But again at the end of the day it will boil down to funding and $$ to make this a reality.
 
I'm pretty sure Maya would have been sent to the Worlds this year if Russians were not banned. Kamila and Sasha wouldn't compete.
KV would not have gone but sasha would have. It's certainly possible Maya would have been one of the replacements But there's no way sasha would have missed worlds. Missing the channel one cup it's due to frustration I seriously doubt she would have missed a world championship since she's only been to one.
 
I was told that same thing last year when upon endless tries, Khromykh finally had that one skate where she landed a quad after manger many competitions that went like, Khromykh comes on ice, falls on quad… and this year is a repeat of the goes on ice, falls on quad, only with addition of falls on triples. If she wasn’t with Tutberidze, I doubt she would have seen those scores.
You mean Maya got the Eteri bounce?
Maya is the tallest lady skater to ever land an ultra jump in competition. That might not put her in the Guinness book of world records but it's something.
 
I thought Russia with the help of China is planning to stage their own version of Grand prix? I would think that if these events push thru, ISU will take it as a direct threat to them.

Skaters with no GP assignments will probably welcome this but at the end of the day, their own federations which are ISU members will have the say if they can go or have to fund their own trip.

i would assume ISU and its members will do everything to prevent active skaters from attending these events.

But again at the end of the day it will boil down to funding and $$ to make this a reality.
Skaters with no grand prix events is like 80% of the world class skaters.

How can the isu prevent skaters from skating in another Figure skating league or association? That would be quite dictatorial of them.

A new organization should do something and host events in countries that do not have gp or challengers. Countries like South Korea Georgia Norway Kazakhstan etc. And Russia if the ISU takes their Grand Prix event next season. Of course all of this is a pipe dream and will take a lot of investors to get this off the ground and the world is going broke except for for the super wealthy who have benefited immensely from the pandemic.

There is more than one soccer league in the world there is more than 1 baseball league in the world there is more than 1 basketball league in the world there is more than 1 hockey league in the world. Why not more than one figure skating league or association in the world? The reality is the ISU limits chances for figure skaters around the world which is why so many of them retire so young. Having another league like the International skating association for instance would give more opportunities to more skaters which is what we want and it would not have to be a direct threat to the International skating union. The new league for figure skating could even have a season like between between July and October for starters.
 
How can the isu prevent skaters from skating in another Figure skating league or association? That would be quite dictatorial of them.
The sticky point is that ISU has control over who competes in their championships, and at this moment I would say Russia is not in the position to be more attractive as an alternative due to both things we are not allowed to mention on these boards and obvious bias in scoring. I would expect they would do expanded national Cup of Russia with maybe some entries ‘outside competition’ from other skaters still training in Russia. I feel that the only skaters who would willingly compete in Russia are those who have no alternative, as in the Russians themselves.
 
The sticky point is that ISU has control over who competes in their championships, and at this moment I would say Russia is not in the position to be more attractive as an alternative due to both things we are not allowed to mention on these boards and obvious bias in scoring. I would expect they would do expanded national Cup of Russia with maybe some entries ‘outside competition’ from other skaters still training in Russia. I feel that the only skaters who would willingly compete in Russia are those who have no alternative, as in the Russians themselves.
So are they going to ban somebody if they compete in a competition in Russia open to the world and then want to compete in a challenger for the isu? They would look really bad and bush league if they did that. It should be just like free enterprise just like soccer players move from one league to another nonstop.
 
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