Ladies Short Program

[myasada]

I wonder that Asada is that high up on the list, because she did not do the triple lutz but the triple flip twice (according to our commentator).

Rochette´s short programme is not good transitionswise, in my opinion. It looks like it were a 6,0 choreography, which is an disadvantage as the skaters are able to do more these days.

I was surprised about Meier´s placement, because her performance should have been higher up, in my opinion. Also I would have expected Meissner´s performance to be higher up. She also interpreted that music really well, much better than Kwan did, IMO.

Your commentator is correct.
I think -1~-2 deduction for Mao's FLUTZ doesn't make sense at all.
Her flip and FLUTZ look exactly the same and you can't do the same jump twice in a short program.

 

[Kinga]

I think it does make sense to keep harping on Mao, and all other skaters with edge issues on lutz/flip jumps. Some skaters, like Sarah Meier I believe, are trying to fix the problem. Didn't she do just a 3salchow in the SP here at Worlds, because she is re-working her flip to make it a real flip? True, it lowers her base mark but if it helps her in the future, then its worth the effort. Kimmie Meissner is trying to fix the flip and yes, it has affected her consistency but at least she is attempting to address the problem. I would rather see a skater leave out a certain jump in competition, or struggle with it as they re-learn it, than to blatantly flutz/lip with absolutely no attempt to fix it.

I agree. This is even a bit arrogant. 'Hey, I am not going to fix it, but I am going to get away with it anyway. It pays off.' In my opinion, if you flutz in the SP, you should not get any points for that jump (especially if your second jump was flip). SP, at the end, is so called technical programme. The deductions should be more restricted.

 

[_Ladybug_]

I agree with the (f)lutz thing, absolutely. And a couple of skaters I love do a bad flutz.

 

[carolinefan177]

I agree. This is even a bit arrogant. 'Hey, I am not going to fix it, but I am going to get away with it anyway. It pays off.' In my opinion, if you flutz in the SP, you should not get any points for that jump (especially if your second jump was flip). SP, at the end, is so called technical programme. The deductions should be more restricted.

Who's to say Mao isn't going to fix it though? What she's doing is not arrogant at all. If she tried to fix her flutz during the season, she could risk messing up her flip, and then, the only jumps she would have in her programs are loops and axels. I say she is doing the smart thing by waiting until the season is over.

 

[greig]

Im so angry with the result.....how on earth did kirra koepi finish higher than sarah meier.Imo sarah skated the best yesterday.she may not have a tripple tripple like some of the others but she has star quality.wonderfull to watch!!should be placed in the top 5 anywyas..

sarah meier was robbed big time!!!!

would like to see mao asada win.....

 

[gourry]

I feel so sorry for Yuna.
And I don't understand about her score. Actually I'm quite shocked at the score.
Ok, she fell down on lutz which is usually very strong jump for her, and she looked a bit slower than usual.

BUT.
After the fall the rest was pretty good. I mean, it was not the breaking record performance but I expected something like early(or even mid)-60, never expected 59!!
Level 2 step? Level 2 spin?? And level 1 spiral??? Are they kidding??

Do you really think she was slower than other skaters? Of course she was slower than Caro but others? ...No, I don't think so.
And one more thing. What is it with her GOE for 3-3?? Is Caro's 3-3(+1.71 GOE) really better than Yuna's 3-3(+1.43 GOE)?? Was her 3-3 that worse than her usual super 3-3(+2 GOE)???

I know it's meaningless to compare between competitions but I can't help but think about her SP scores of this season (which were never clean) and Mao's GPF SP score with bad 3-3 and no lutz!!!

I know Caro did fantastic performance and Mao finally did clean SP and I have no objection for their scores or placement.
I just feel very very upset and even hurt for Yuna.

 

[Wrlmy]

And one more thing. What is it with her GOE for 3-3?? Is Caro's 3-3(+1.71 GOE) really better than Yuna's 3-3(+1.43 GOE)?? Was her 3-3 that worse than her usual super 3-3(+2 GOE)???

Is this true? I thought Carolina had a slight wobble on her landing of 3-3. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[fourclover]

I feel so sorry for Yuna.
And I don't understand about her score. Actually I'm quite shocked at the score.
Ok, she fell down on lutz which is usually very strong jump for her, and she looked a bit slower than usual.

BUT.
After the fall the rest was pretty good. I mean, it was not the breaking record performance but I expected something like early(or even mid)-60, never expected 59!!
Level 2 step? Level 2 spin?? And level 1 spiral??? Are they kidding??

Do you really think she was slower than other skaters? Of course she was slower than Caro but others? ...No, I don't think so.
And one more thing. What is it with her GOE for 3-3?? Is Caro's 3-3(+1.71 GOE) really better than Yuna's 3-3(+1.43 GOE)?? Was her 3-3 that worse than her usual super 3-3(+2 GOE)???

I know it's meaningless to compare between competitions but I can't help but think about her SP scores of this season (which were never clean) and Mao's GPF SP score with bad 3-3 and no lutz!!!

I know Caro did fantastic performance and Mao finally did clean SP and I have no objection for their scores or placement.
I just feel very very upset and even hurt for Yuna.

As much as I'm a big time Yu-na fan, I have to agree with the judges here. Actually, I thought the score was pretty high considering that she was off a full 5.5 points from missing lutz AND minus 1 point deduction. That means had Yu-na landed her lutz as usual, her score would have been the highest. I did think that she skated slower than usual and her expression wasn't as "free flowing" as when she skated at Cup of China or at GPF. AND, I was totally disappointed with her DRESS which didn't suit HER or THE MUSIC AT ALL. The blue dress was at least classy and showed Yu-na's beautiful shoulder line. THIS dress - I hope she never wears it again - looked as if she borrowed it from a friend's younger sister that's too small. I noticed lavender color doesn't suit Yu-na as does Mao AND the dress had a WEIRD short (TOO SMALL) skirt and LUMPY glittery shoulder decoration which together made Yu-na look chunky and shortlegged which she ISN'T. The dress actually dulled her figure and lines. Gosh, I miss that blue dress.

I got a glimpse of her LP dress and it's MUCH better. PLEASE, if anyone working at Yu-na's camp is reading this, YU-NA SHOULD GO STRAPLESS or AT LEAST SHOW HER SHOULDERS.

OH, and I did notice that Yu-na's fitness level wasn't up to par as her usual pre-competiton level like Yu-na said herself. She's looks more like when she was competing at the World's last year - a few pounds heavier - than her ideal competiting fitness level. Thus, I noticed decreased speed in her skating.

 

[cera]

I think it does make sense to keep harping on Mao, and all other skaters with edge issues on lutz/flip jumps. Some skaters, like Sarah Meier I believe, are trying to fix the problem. Didn't she do just a 3salchow in the SP here at Worlds, because she is re-working her flip to make it a real flip? True, it lowers her base mark but if it helps her in the future, then its worth the effort. Kimmie Meissner is trying to fix the flip and yes, it has affected her consistency but at least she is attempting to address the problem. I would rather see a skater leave out a certain jump in competition, or struggle with it as they re-learn it, than to blatantly flutz/lip with absolutely no attempt to fix it.

well, mao can't replace the lutz in her sp because she doesn't have any other reliable triples. there was some talk about her trying to fix the flutz between nationals and worlds but i guess it started messing with that jump (see various shows she did and also 4cc) so i guess it was safer to leave it alone for now and work on it after worlds...which is a good idea since she actually has a shot at the title. unlike other skaters...

on another note, i just watched yukari nakano's sp and i'm still breathless from her spins!!!! they are SO fast!!! they make everyone's look slow..esp the top few skaters...like yu na, mao, miki...she's even faster than zhang, i think!!

 

[ChrisH]

I imagine that if Yu-Na was 100%, Mao would've gone with the 3A instead of the 3Lz(e). And if the penalty for a flutz was bigger, Mao certainly would've gone for the 3A. Hasn't Mao hit her 3A in three competitions in a row? Her 3A at Four Continents was rock solid.

 

[gourry]

As much as I'm a big time Yu-na fan, I have to agree with the judges here. Actually, I thought the score was pretty high considering that she was off a full 5.5 points from missing lutz AND minus 1 point deduction. That means had Yu-na landed her lutz as usual, her score would have been the highest. I did think that she skated slower than usual and her expression wasn't as "free flowing" as when she skated at Cup of China or at GPF. AND, I was totally disappointed with her DRESS which didn't suit HER or THE MUSIC AT ALL. The blue dress was at least classy and showed Yu-na's beautiful shoulder line. THIS dress - I hope she never wears it again - looked as if she borrowed it from a friend's younger sister that's too small. I noticed lavender color doesn't suit Yu-na as does Mao AND the dress had a WEIRD short (TOO SMALL) skirt and LUMPY glittery shoulder decoration which together made Yu-na look chunky and shortlegged which she ISN'T. The dress actually dulled her figure and lines. Gosh, I miss that blue dress.

I got a glimpse of her LP dress and it's MUCH better. PLEASE, if anyone working at Yu-na's camp is reading this, YU-NA SHOULD GO STRAPLESS or AT LEAST SHOW HER SHOULDERS.

OH, and I did notice that Yu-na's fitness level wasn't up to par as her usual pre-competiton level like Yu-na said herself. She's looks more like when she was competing at the World's last year - a few pounds heavier - than her ideal competiting fitness level. Thus, I noticed decreased speed in her skating.

As much as I'm a big time Yuna's blue dress fan, I also like her new SP dress in which she really looked like a fairy. But beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and everybody has one's own taste so I'm not gonna argue with you about it any more.

She is not off a full 5.5 point, actually it is -3 GOE and -1 deduction so she lost -4 point there. Just a little correction.

When I first saw Yuna's performance(SBS live web streaming) I was acknowledge that her condition was subpar and that affected my view that I felt she is slow and not that, how to say, radiant as usual. But later, I watched it again(Fuji ver.) and I felt I was biased. She was just as lovely as ever.
I'm not an expert. It's all just my humble opinion and what am I to say anything. But, still I feel something is wrong about some of her levels of elements.

 

[Lumi]

not off a full 5.5 point, actually it is -3 GOE and -1 deduction so she lost -4 point there. Just a little correction.

Expect that Yuna's lutz was apperently underrotated and only recieved base value of 2Lz...

 

[capcomop]

I disagree with that. Kimmie was judged fair enough IMO and with these scores she could have been 9th or 5th dependind on which judges were chosen randomly.
And Bebe should be really happy that she did made the top 10 and she got really big PCS for her skatig soo early because yes PCS are still affected by the draw order but thats not the same as judging cheating.

Why should Bebe "be happy" with something if she deserved more? It isn't like she fell on a jump and still made the top ten.
She made no errors in her program and got lower technical marks then skaters who started with the same content and then had errors. Why should that make her happy?
And as for PCS being lower at the beginning... if a judge gives a later skater a higher score for no other reason than when she skated it is cheating becasue the judge is not judging what happened on the ice but by some other criteria. At least it is very wrong and a serious flaw in the system!
But hey Bebe, be happy you actually made the cut with your clean program. I mean you skated early, the judges could have ignored you all together!

 

[Wrlmy]

Apparently, some judges handed out 4's to Bebe
I think we can all agree skating order and pcs are almost proportional. But that means Bebe's pcs would rise today, so good luck to her. I hope all three American ladies can stay in top 10 after free skate. BUT I just read on FSU that all of tech panel and 10 of 12 judges are Europeans. :disapp:

 

[carolinefan177]

Apparently, some judges handed out 4's to Bebe
I think we can all agree skating order and pcs are almost proportional. But that means Bebe's pcs would rise today, so good luck to her. I hope all three American ladies can stay in top 10 after free skate. BUT I just read on FSU that all of tech panel and 10 of 12 judges are Europeans. :disapp:

^
Why is it that they do that? Why can't they balance the boards with judges from other continents? That always confused me.

 

[Medusa]

Why should Bebe "be happy" with something if she deserved more? It isn't like she fell on a jump and still made the top ten.
She made no errors in her program and got lower technical marks then skaters who started with the same content and then had errors. Why should that make her happy?
And as for PCS being lower at the beginning... if a judge gives a later skater a higher score for no other reason than when she skated it is cheating becasue the judge is not judging what happened on the ice but by some other criteria. At least it is very wrong and a serious flaw in the system!
But hey Bebe, be happy you actually made the cut with your clean program. I mean you skated early, the judges could have ignored you all together!

You are correct with your criticism of strange PCS etc. - but it bugs me, really bugs me, that lots of people on this board only get worked up because of these judging problems / mistakes if their favourites are involved.

What is Ksenia Doronina supposed to say? She certainly has not much artistry, but a solid skating style and solid technique - she skated in the first half of the ladies and got the third lowest PCS of all the girls who made the final. I certainly prefer her program and style over Mira Leung's - who got 2 points more PCS. What about Dytrt, Marchei - who also had good clean programs and are not placed higher than Liang. Or that girl from Taipeh who was apparently really good and was so unlucky to start in the 2nd group or so.

It's not just poor little Bébé who suffers from certain flaws in the system.

 

[Wrlmy]

^
Why is it that they do that? Why can't they balance the boards with judges from other continents? That always confused me.

Probably cuz it wouldn't hurt to have a few European world medalists going into next worlds and Olympic both held in NA.

 

[Linny]

Balance

In the old scoring system, it wasn't so much the score that a judge awarded, but the placement. So one judge could give 3 skaters a 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3, placing the third skater first with a 5.3 while another judge could give the same 3 skaters a 5.6, 5.7 & a 5.8. In either case, the third skater was placed first by both judges.

Most of the judges at high levels learned to judge under the old scoring system. Therefore, they are still in the habit of "leaving room" when earlier skaters appear. Maybe they still feel responsible for placing the skaters in the order in which they feel they should be placed, rather than just punching in numbers and letting the computer figure out the placement order.

That's my theory, anyway.

Bottom line - this is a subjective sport. Always will be. So if a judge simply likes one performance better than another, the judge will give that performance higher PCS. It's a matter of taste.

Linny

 

[SamuraiKike]

Why should Bebe "be happy" with something if she deserved more? It isn't like she fell on a jump and still made the top ten.
She made no errors in her program and got lower technical marks then skaters who started with the same content and then had errors. Why should that make her happy?
And as for PCS being lower at the beginning... if a judge gives a later skater a higher score for no other reason than when she skated it is cheating becasue the judge is not judging what happened on the ice but by some other criteria. At least it is very wrong and a serious flaw in the system!
But hey Bebe, be happy you actually made the cut with your clean program. I mean you skated early, the judges could have ignored you all together!

Bebe should be happy cause she skated great and got very good scores for her and a top 10 placement. Do you honestly think any of the girls ahead of her was worse judging their performances as a whole?? If so, then fair enough and good for you but I think that "clean is always better than not so clean" thinking is too easy. there's just much more in a program and in FS in general.

As for the PCS and the draw order, you are looking the problem with the wrong perspective, is not that a judge automatically gives higher PCS cause someone skated last, they rather not give very high PCS to the early skaters cause who knows whos gonna come next and skate better and by far. Its almost a reflex and a very hard thing to avoid in a subjective judging. And frankly it was waaaayyy worse before COP. Now you have the Taipei girl skating in the first groups of more than 50 skaters and still making it to the FP. That would have never ever ever happened during 6.0 era. No system is perfect of course but in this deparment COP beats 6.0.

 

[SamuraiKike]

In the old scoring system, it wasn't so much the score that a judge awarded, but the placement. So one judge could give 3 skaters a 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3, placing the third skater first with a 5.3 while another judge could give the same 3 skaters a 5.6, 5.7 & a 5.8. In either case, the third skater was placed first by both judges.

Most of the judges at high levels learned to judge under the old scoring system. Therefore, they are still in the habit of "leaving room" when earlier skaters appear. Maybe they still feel responsible for placing the skaters in the order in which they feel they should be placed, rather than just punching in numbers and letting the computer figure out the placement order.

That's my theory, anyway.

Bottom line - this is a subjective sport. Always will be. So if a judge simply likes one performance better than another, the judge will give that performance higher PCS. It's a matter of taste.

Linny

You made very good points Linny. The judging in the PC still makes us all go wtf?! a lot of times., but I think is less outrageous than what it was before. Hopefully the new generation of judges will adjust better:agree: