2023-24 Russian Women's Figure Skating | Page 27 | Golden Skate

2023-24 Russian Women's Figure Skating

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"All other forums?" Which forums "hate Russians"? :scratch2: That's a pretty broad statement.
Ask the guy I replied to. He insinuated "forums" would go on fire if Russians came back to dominate.

My interpretation was that only another site was vehemently anti-Russian (it observably is), which is natural given the reputation of that forum.

Therefore, I was asking a question about the other forums, not making a statement. The term "all" being used is just a figure of speech.
 
Ask the guy I replied to. He insinuated "forums" would go on fire if Russians came back to dominate.

My interpretation was that only another site was vehemently anti-Russian (it observably is), which is natural given the reputation of that forum.

Therefore, I was asking a question about the other forums, not making a statement. The term "all" being used is just a figure of speech.
Objectively, I agree it's 99.99% another site users seething with hate and then they act surprised when in real life most don't agree with their hatred of certain people. But I recommend avoiding the another site site overall like the plague.

Even outside of figure skating through observation most subreddits are rampant with wild hatred. Hatred is gloried in general over there in almost all the main/top subreddits (most advertisers don't go to another site for that reason, and another site struggles to make money like other social media sites due to it's extreme toxicity. It can't even monetize without its own users turning off access to the subreddits in protest). If you do a search you'll find tons of questions on google asking why is another site so "toxic"/"mean" etc. Horrid reputation. It's a hive of hatred and attracts more of those types of people to that forum/site. I highly recommend avoiding most of another site not just the figure skating stuff.

My view is that in every forum there's a group of certain individuals who can't stand the Russians winning and have a major hypocrisy complex, but personally I wouldn't say it's most people or the forums in general (other than another site). I think the main ones seething with hatred in those forum are who the Op is referring to when saying "the different forums including another site in fire" if the Russians dominate international again.

Not sure why you got called out specifically on this topic when you didn't make the original statement though. Interesting... (it's also clear that you asked a question not made a statement).

Also, what revenge is brewing from Titova? Have you seen anything? I need some hope.
She's so far had a terrible run this year and her latest GP. I thought it was because of the Plushenko shows, but I don't know anymore. Has she lost her jumps? What's happening to her? I thought she had a 3A + 3Lo combo earlier this year? Now she has nothing?
 
Objectively, I agree it's 99.99% another site users seething with hate and then they act surprised when in real life most don't agree with their hatred of certain people. But I recommend avoiding the another site site overall like the plague.

Even outside of figure skating through observation most subreddits are rampant with wild hatred. Hatred is gloried in general over there in almost all the main/top subreddits (most advertisers don't go to another site for that reason, and another site struggles to make money like other social media sites due to it's extreme toxicity. It can't even monetize without its own users turning off access to the subreddits in protest). If you do a search you'll find tons of questions on google asking why is another site so "toxic"/"mean" etc. Horrid reputation. It's a hive of hatred and attracts more of those types of people to that forum/site. I highly recommend avoiding most of another site not just the figure skating stuff.

My view is that in every forum there's a group of certain individuals who can't stand the Russians winning and have a major hypocrisy complex, but personally I wouldn't say it's most people or the forums in general (other than another site). I think the main ones seething with hatred in those forum are who the Op is referring to when saying "the different forums including another site in fire" if the Russians dominate international again.

Not sure why you got called out specifically on this topic when you didn't make the original statement though. Interesting... (it's also clear that you asked a question not made a statement).

Also, what revenge is brewing from Titova? Have you seen anything? I need some hope.
She's so far had a terrible run this year and her latest GP. I thought it was because of the Plushenko shows, but I don't know anymore. Has she lost her jumps? What's happening to her? I thought she had a 3A + 3Lo combo earlier this year? Now she has nothing?
Yes, I'm well aware about the state of another site. Its not just toxic but an ideological echo chamber for chronically online giga-liberals. An impenetrable hivemind that requires cheap consensus on shallow fallacious philosophies to compensate for severe psychological shortcomings and not being accepted IRL. Typical internet stuff I guess.

As for why I got called out, I think the mod team alongside the internationally focused forum megastars don't like me very much in particular, for multiple reasons (some of which are valid). So, when interacting with the non-Russian paradigm of this forum, oftentimes whatever I say tends to cross a certain interpretive filter where its impossible for my actual ideas to be assessed as they are (see any of my interactions in the non-Russian forum sections). However, the team has been very fair and kind to give me a 2nd chance here after I was (deservedly) permabanned, so I dont have any lasting grudge against them.

With Titova I'm mostly just praying for her without any real evidence supporting her. I changed my bio to this after her first stage where the judges kind of treated her unfairly. Unfortunately her 2nd stage was a severe disaster. I do think in her first stage she was suffering from ice show syndrome and I'm going to suppose the 2nd stage was a fluke. I believe she gets a pass to Nats anyways because she is on the national team (waiting for AlexBreeze to confirm) so I'm praying that she brings revenge on the scene and shows us the beautiful performances I know shes capable of. I think her programs in themselves are lackluster though and I've been saying it since test skates. Shes a lyrical/artistic talent so giving her these mediocre and shallow programs was a mistake from her team (again, something likely due to ice shows eating too much of her time).
 
Yes, I'm well aware about the state of another site. Its not just toxic but an ideological echo chamber for chronically online giga-liberals. An impenetrable hivemind that requires cheap consensus on shallow fallacious philosophies to compensate for severe psychological shortcomings and not being accepted IRL. Typical internet stuff I guess.
Damn, i would like to be able to speak english like that:laugh:
 
After six domestic GPs we can safely take off rose-tinted glasses and conlude the era of triple axels and quads in Russian senior ladies figure skating has officially ended.

Rest in peace ultra-c, we'll always have youtube. :pray:
What an era.
2018-2023, she was a baby🥹🕊️
 
After six domestic GPs we can safely take off rose-tinted glasses and conlude the era of triple axels and quads in Russian senior ladies figure skating has officially ended.

Rest in peace ultra-c, we'll always have youtube. :pray:
I disagree. First, some of the main girls are out with injury:

Sofia A. will be out the entire season with that stress fracture. Let's pray for her as she may not come back (stress fractures end careers).
Veronika Z. is injured not sure when she'll be back.
Anastasia Z. is injured not sure when she'll be back.

Then...
Liza T. suspended her career. Will not be back until international comps are offered.
Sofia S. is transitioning to another country


Current ladies left with ultra-c:

Adeliia P. landed both 4F, 4T, and 3A this season (the only one).
Kamila V. failed all 4T's in comp.
Sofia M. failed all 3A's in comp.
Alina G. failed 4S in comp
Daria S. failed all 4T's in comp
Maria Paramonova failed her 4S in comp
Angelina Palagina failed all 3A's in comp (new ultra-c senior)

Last season we had 8 total senior women with ultra-c jumps at major comps.
This season we had 12, but lost 5 so were left with the 7 above until some of the others heal and come back.

The era hasn't ended. Most of the ladies above still skating are inconsistent with landing their ultra-c jumps in competition which some can land in warm-up before their program.

The failure rate for all the quads at the GP's are normal except if anyone is doing any direct comparison to Anna and Sasha who had each other as competition. If Anna or Sasha did not exist to battle with the other we don't know if they would have pushed so many difficult 4Lz's, 4F's, and 3Lz 3Lo's back to back in competition to stay at the top against each other. Also Kamila came through in top shape at that time causing those two to push at the maximum even more with no break. It was non-stop ultra-c.
If you remove Anna and Sasha who are abnormal demons (in a good way) this failure rate is normal. Not landing at least one quad per comp is normal without these two women used as a reference. If without them during the 2017/2018 - 2021/2022 with the exception of Kami's rise starting in the 2019 season or Aliona peaking her 3A in 2019 season you'll see that the complete failure of quads and 3A is normal for everyone else competing. Only those two kept going non-stop landing quads from early on for 4 -5 seasons back to back. That isn't normal for most women.

Liza failed for years before she stabilized that 3A as an adult woman and always failed the 4T. This is more realistic for most women. I would completely remove Anna and Sasha as examples or as a standard for landing ultra-c as that's more on the extreme end.

Last season Adeliia was and now is always landing at least one quad with a 3A attempt per comp with multiple 3-3's so she is the only one following the Anna/Sasha path at the moment from the same team. Especially being the only one with 4F now in seniors. She's an outlier. Her biggest rival was Sofia A who she thought was in but is now out with injury. She's Sasha without an Anna to beat so she may reduce her load even more now that the competition isn't pushing both 3A and quads. One optional 3A in the short and a clean 4F in the free is suffice for her to win. Unless Zhilina comes back consistent with her 4Lz by Rus Nats. Then it's the battle of two Sashas since they both have so many quads (4T 4Lo 4F vs 4T 4S 4Lz) plus their 3A.

Last season Kamila
failed until the jumping comp then landed her quads at nationals, and the GP final. This is her new normal with her current fully grown adult non-prepubescent body type and no olympic season to get in top shape for.

Last season Sofia M
was on fire with her 3A but fizzled out drastically at the end. It's better for her to peak near the end rather then peak at the start and burn out at the end. Also, in juniors prior to last season the same thing happened at the Russian GP's when she first stabilized her 3A. She had some failures on 3A and completely failed her 4S attempts (never did it again). Her first semi-consistent season EVER back to back with her triple axels in the short and free was last season. We might be seeing a reverse trajectory with her.

Last season Alina G
was always a hit or miss like she is now. She failed her last two GP's last season almost the exact same way she did right now. Normal for her. Last season was the first season she EVER landed her 4S clean at a major Russian comp.

Last season Angelina Palagina had no 3A in major domestic comps. This is her first season trying it at the GP's so of course it's inconsistent.

Last season Daria Sadkova was a junior without any ultra-c attempts until the GP final. She landed her 4T for the first time EVER last season at the GP final. Not surprised she can't land it right now in comp. Maybe at the GP final.

Last season Maria Paramonova failed the 4S attempts in small comps and she's still failing it now, but is also sadly dealing with death in her family so it's affecting her more. Otherwise it's normal for her. Never landed in comp.

The failure rate was very similar to last season or previous seasons for most of these ladies so far with the exception of Muravieva who's 3A peaked for the first time EVER last season, but maybe you didn't notice. It wasn't as clear to see last season as the most consistent ultra-c jumpers like Sofia A, and Liza T were there to mask some of the struggle when others failed and vice versa. Even Anastasia Z landed a clean quad at one of the GP's to create a smoke screen, but now that these skaters are all out with injury or soft retired we can see the normally struggling ultra-c skaters even more. It's like a magnifying glass on inconsistent skaters who are or at least were at one point always prone to inconsistency in their ultra-c jumps.

This is normal for them or their new normal (in Kami's case). Nothing is ending or has ended.
 
I disagree. First, some of the main girls are out with injury:

Sofia A. will be out the entire season with that stress fracture. Let's pray for her as she may not come back (stress fractures end careers).
Veronika Z. is injured not sure when she'll be back.
Anastasia Z. is injured not sure when she'll be back.

Then...
Liza T. suspended her career. Will not be back until international comps are offered.
Sofia S. is transitioning to another country


Current ladies left with ultra-c:

Adeliia P. landed both 4F, 4T, and 3A this season (the only one).
Kamila V. failed all 4T's in comp.
Sofia M. failed all 3A's in comp.
Alina G. failed 4S in comp
Daria S. failed all 4T's in comp
Maria Paramonova failed her 4S in comp
Angelina Palagina failed all 3A's in comp (new ultra-c senior)

Last season we had 8 total senior women with ultra-c jumps at major comps.
This season we had 12, but lost 5 so were left with the 7 above until some of the others heal and come back.

The era hasn't ended. Most of the ladies above still skating are inconsistent with landing their ultra-c jumps in competition which some can land in warm-up before their program.

The failure rate for all the quads at the GP's are normal except if anyone is doing any direct comparison to Anna and Sasha who had each other as competition. If Anna or Sasha did not exist to battle with the other we don't know if they would have pushed so many difficult 4Lz's, 4F's, and 3Lz 3Lo's back to back in competition to stay at the top against each other. Also Kamila came through in top shape at that time causing those two to push at the maximum even more with no break. It was non-stop ultra-c.
If you remove Anna and Sasha who are abnormal demons (in a good way) this failure rate is normal. Not landing at least one quad per comp is normal without these two women used as a reference. If without them during the 2017/2018 - 2021/2022 with the exception of Kami's rise starting in the 2019 season or Aliona peaking her 3A in 2019 season you'll see that the complete failure of quads and 3A is normal for everyone else competing. Only those two kept going non-stop landing quads from early on for 4 -5 seasons back to back. That isn't normal for most women.

Liza failed for years before she stabilized that 3A as an adult woman and always failed the 4T. This is more realistic for most women. I would completely remove Anna and Sasha as examples or as a standard for landing ultra-c as that's more on the extreme end.

Last season Adeliia was and now is always landing at least one quad with a 3A attempt per comp with multiple 3-3's so she is the only one following the Anna/Sasha path at the moment from the same team. Especially being the only one with 4F now in seniors. She's an outlier. Her biggest rival was Sofia A who she thought was in but is now out with injury. She's Sasha without an Anna to beat so she may reduce her load even more now that the competition isn't pushing both 3A and quads. One optional 3A in the short and a clean 4F in the free is suffice for her to win. Unless Zhilina comes back consistent with her 4Lz by Rus Nats. Then it's the battle of two Sashas since they both have so many quads (4T 4Lo 4F vs 4T 4S 4Lz) plus their 3A.

Last season Kamila failed until the jumping comp then landed her quads at nationals, and the GP final. This is her new normal with her current fully grown adult non-prepubescent body type and no olympic season to get in top shape for.

Last season Sofia M was on fire with her 3A but fizzled out drastically at the end. It's better for her to peak near the end rather then peak at the start and burn out at the end. Also, in juniors prior to last season the same thing happened at the Russian GP's when she first stabilized her 3A. She had some failures on 3A and completely failed her 4S attempts (never did it again). Her first semi-consistent season EVER back to back with her triple axels in the short and free was last season. We might be seeing a reverse trajectory with her.

Last season Alina G was always a hit or miss like she is now. She failed her last two GP's last season almost the exact same way she did right now. Normal for her. Last season was the first season she EVER landed her 4S clean at a major Russian comp.

Last season Angelina Palagina had no 3A in major domestic comps. This is her first season trying it at the GP's so of course it's inconsistent.

Last season Daria Sadkova was a junior without any ultra-c attempts until the GP final. She landed her 4T for the first time EVER last season at the GP final. Not surprised she can't land it right now in comp. Maybe at the GP final.

Last season Maria Paramonova failed the 4S attempts in small comps and she's still failing it now, but is also sadly dealing with death in her family so it's affecting her more. Otherwise it's normal for her. Never landed in comp.

The failure rate was very similar to last season or previous seasons for most of these ladies so far with the exception of Muravieva who's 3A peaked for the first time EVER last season, but maybe you didn't notice. It wasn't as clear to see last season as the most consistent ultra-c jumpers like Sofia A, and Liza T were there to mask some of the struggle when others failed and vice versa. Even Anastasia Z landed a clean quad at one of the GP's to create a smoke screen, but now that these skaters are all out with injury or soft retired we can see the normally struggling ultra-c skaters even more. It's like a magnifying glass on inconsistent skaters who are or at least were at one point always prone to inconsistency in their ultra-c jumps.

This is normal for them or their new normal (in Kami's case). Nothing is ending or has ended.
I think he/she was mainly joking. And also wanted to stir up some drama so this thread could be a bit alive.
 
Kamila's about to miss three consecutive world championships and would have been an automatic selection at all of them, add psychological burden of what she has dealt with for nearly two years now is almost the worst kind of punishment that she could have been given. She probably has some kind of PTSD. She's had rapid growth, maybe even worsened by extreme stress she has experienced. People around the world in the media or social media making threats of what will be taken, what will happen to her, saying she's dirty, etc. For a teenage girl not even an adult what does that do to her self worth. For her, even if free to compete, there will be no international events on the horizon for her or anyone with only a Russian passport. There is little to be motivated for except for personal pride.

Still, her short program is a masterpiece every inch perfect, no-one else could pull it off. The free skate has issues but is improving. For all intents the quad has returned and jumped a 4T-2A-2A in the warm up which is insane. Bit by bit getting into competition shape for the biggest starts of the year.

If there were a GP final coming up for her next week she would have been in peak shape by now, programs fully worked out (let's not forget she had eye surgery just before test skates).

It's some what of a miracle the child can get out of bed in the morning let alone jump a 4T-2A-2A in a warm up.

Let's not forget the age rules were changed. Adelia is probably the most lucky in terms of genetics for jumping ultra-c, but even she is starting to lose stability as she gets older. They are making a some what rational decision to not put ultra-c above all else especially with no international starts on the horizon and they'll be 17+ competing against other girls 17+.
 
After six domestic GPs we can safely take off rose-tinted glasses and conlude the era of triple axels and quads in Russian senior ladies figure skating has officially ended.

Rest in peace ultra-c, we'll always have youtube. :pray:
(Looks at Alena Prineva's quadruple Lutz and Rita Bazyluk's triple quads) Amen.
 
By the way, I expect a quad battle in the young girls' category on December 9, as well as the boys'. Of the six participants, three own quads. Bazyliuk will face the combined efforts of the team of Alisa Dvoeglazova and Alena Prinyova, and it should be a glorious battle. Perhaps Victoria Morozova will also decide to try the promised quad? Then only Sofia Dzepka and Agata Petrova will turn out to be girls without ultra-c elements.
 
I disagree. First, some of the main girls are out with injury:

Sofia A. will be out the entire season with that stress fracture. Let's pray for her as she may not come back (stress fractures end careers).
Veronika Z. is injured not sure when she'll be back.
Anastasia Z. is injured not sure when she'll be back.

Then...
Liza T. suspended her career. Will not be back until international comps are offered.
Sofia S. is transitioning to another country


Current ladies left with ultra-c:

Adeliia P. landed both 4F, 4T, and 3A this season (the only one).
Kamila V. failed all 4T's in comp.
Sofia M. failed all 3A's in comp.
Alina G. failed 4S in comp
Daria S. failed all 4T's in comp
Maria Paramonova failed her 4S in comp
Angelina Palagina failed all 3A's in comp (new ultra-c senior)

Last season we had 8 total senior women with ultra-c jumps at major comps.
This season we had 12, but lost 5 so were left with the 7 above until some of the others heal and come back.

The era hasn't ended. Most of the ladies above still skating are inconsistent with landing their ultra-c jumps in competition which some can land in warm-up before their program.

The failure rate for all the quads at the GP's are normal except if anyone is doing any direct comparison to Anna and Sasha who had each other as competition. If Anna or Sasha did not exist to battle with the other we don't know if they would have pushed so many difficult 4Lz's, 4F's, and 3Lz 3Lo's back to back in competition to stay at the top against each other. Also Kamila came through in top shape at that time causing those two to push at the maximum even more with no break. It was non-stop ultra-c.
If you remove Anna and Sasha who are abnormal demons (in a good way) this failure rate is normal. Not landing at least one quad per comp is normal without these two women used as a reference. If without them during the 2017/2018 - 2021/2022 with the exception of Kami's rise starting in the 2019 season or Aliona peaking her 3A in 2019 season you'll see that the complete failure of quads and 3A is normal for everyone else competing. Only those two kept going non-stop landing quads from early on for 4 -5 seasons back to back. That isn't normal for most women.

Liza failed for years before she stabilized that 3A as an adult woman and always failed the 4T. This is more realistic for most women. I would completely remove Anna and Sasha as examples or as a standard for landing ultra-c as that's more on the extreme end.

Last season Adeliia was and now is always landing at least one quad with a 3A attempt per comp with multiple 3-3's so she is the only one following the Anna/Sasha path at the moment from the same team. Especially being the only one with 4F now in seniors. She's an outlier. Her biggest rival was Sofia A who she thought was in but is now out with injury. She's Sasha without an Anna to beat so she may reduce her load even more now that the competition isn't pushing both 3A and quads. One optional 3A in the short and a clean 4F in the free is suffice for her to win. Unless Zhilina comes back consistent with her 4Lz by Rus Nats. Then it's the battle of two Sashas since they both have so many quads (4T 4Lo 4F vs 4T 4S 4Lz) plus their 3A.

Last season Kamila failed until the jumping comp then landed her quads at nationals, and the GP final. This is her new normal with her current fully grown adult non-prepubescent body type and no olympic season to get in top shape for.

Last season Sofia M was on fire with her 3A but fizzled out drastically at the end. It's better for her to peak near the end rather then peak at the start and burn out at the end. Also, in juniors prior to last season the same thing happened at the Russian GP's when she first stabilized her 3A. She had some failures on 3A and completely failed her 4S attempts (never did it again). Her first semi-consistent season EVER back to back with her triple axels in the short and free was last season. We might be seeing a reverse trajectory with her.

Last season Alina G was always a hit or miss like she is now. She failed her last two GP's last season almost the exact same way she did right now. Normal for her. Last season was the first season she EVER landed her 4S clean at a major Russian comp.

Last season Angelina Palagina had no 3A in major domestic comps. This is her first season trying it at the GP's so of course it's inconsistent.

Last season Daria Sadkova was a junior without any ultra-c attempts until the GP final. She landed her 4T for the first time EVER last season at the GP final. Not surprised she can't land it right now in comp. Maybe at the GP final.

Last season Maria Paramonova failed the 4S attempts in small comps and she's still failing it now, but is also sadly dealing with death in her family so it's affecting her more. Otherwise it's normal for her. Never landed in comp.

The failure rate was very similar to last season or previous seasons for most of these ladies so far with the exception of Muravieva who's 3A peaked for the first time EVER last season, but maybe you didn't notice. It wasn't as clear to see last season as the most consistent ultra-c jumpers like Sofia A, and Liza T were there to mask some of the struggle when others failed and vice versa. Even Anastasia Z landed a clean quad at one of the GP's to create a smoke screen, but now that these skaters are all out with injury or soft retired we can see the normally struggling ultra-c skaters even more. It's like a magnifying glass on inconsistent skaters who are or at least were at one point always prone to inconsistency in their ultra-c jumps.

This is normal for them or their new normal (in Kami's case). Nothing is ending or has ended.
Btw, Nelyubova had 4Lz planned and Kamila mentioned that Kamilla had done it in official practice.
 
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I disagree. First, some of the main girls are out with injury:

Sofia A. will be out the entire season with that stress fracture. Let's pray for her as she may not come back (stress fractures end careers).
Veronika Z. is injured not sure when she'll be back.
Anastasia Z. is injured not sure when she'll be back.

Zinina I'm less familiar with but the other 2, honestly their inability to stay healthy makes me question if they will ever get back to where they were and stay there.
 
Zinina I'm less familiar with but the other 2, honestly their inability to stay healthy makes me question if they will ever get back to where they were and stay there.
Veronika Z and Sofia A do get severely injured back to back to back and season after season, but they thankfully always come back. I do fear one day they might not. Hoping they always pull through and get stronger. Given the back and forth injuries for the girls I don't think they'll stay healthy throughout their career. I think the cycle will keep going until there's more advancement in the way skaters train as well as advancements in the way skating boots are made or until their career ends. Whichever comes first.
From what I've followed Anastasia Z has also been injured back to back to back from the end of juniors to the start of seniors to mid senior season and now the start of her second year of seniors. She's missing most competitions constantly. I hope she comes back stronger too, but she seems to get injured just as hard each season too.
These ladies are the most unlucky.
 
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