ISU releases official agenda with proposals for 2024: age limits, jump limits and more

[TallyT]

Ice Jumping = rules of Russian ice jumping tournament. It was perfect this year. The best event this year. Absolutely outstanding! Though maybe somehow one less round, because by the last round guys looked tired enough to make fatigue based mistakes. Also, shows how much more entertaining it is because the exhibition programs competition was like two orders of maginitude less interesting, despite balancing choreo in oodles with jumping. Jumping tournament offered the grid where the skaters went directly against one another, fast and flashy, very exciting, something the figure skating actually needs. And, the combos shown in this tournament were so, so fun! I had an absolute blast. Obviously, unlike the Russians, the ISU can't put women into it with men, except Shimada, but, well...anything is better than nothing, and maybe it will give women incentive to jump, because in Russian show Bazylyuk was an undeniable star. Yes, in a jumping tournament. Yes, with senior men participating. And, like, Popov won silver by jumping 4S and 4T versus higher quads.

That is the whole point. YOU found it a blast. Others and yes I do mean me, would find it a snoozefest. Neither of us speak for the masses and the ISU wants some sort of masses.

I'll wait and see which changes actually get through (maybe few, after all) and how they actually do affect things.

 

[lariko]

The Russian show program event was a disaster, not sure it had to be.
Maybe for you (and the Russians) the jumping tournament was very interesting, but me, I would not have watched had there not been skaters taking part I already know and appreciate from normal skating. I wonder, do you also watch other similar sports, like diving, trampolin, long jump, high jump...?

Nope. Jumping tournament is specifically interesting because it is in the same sport as the SP and FS. It perfectly added the component now so lacking. For the choreo and footwork fests there are ice dance, synchro and galas. But there is nothing to see the top skaters going to the top of their jumping ability, unless their name is Malinin. But I bet, Malinin can jump cascades that will blow one's mind. Compare to what the skaters were doing in the tournament, FS is nothing, limiting the number of jumps per a jumping pass far too much.

 

[icewhite]

Ice Jumping = rules of Russian ice jumping tournament. It was perfect this year. The best event this year. Absolutely outstanding! Though maybe somehow one less round, because by the last round guys looked tired enough to make fatigue based mistakes. Also, shows how much more entertaining it is because the exhibition programs competition was like two orders of maginitude less interesting, despite balancing choreo in oodles with jumping. Jumping tournament offered the grid where the skaters went directly against one another, fast and flashy, very exciting, something the figure skating actually needs.

And, the combos and cascades shown in this tournament were so, so fun! I had an absolute blast. You never ever get to see combos like that, because nobody puts them in exhibition. And it would be dangerous in stroking light. But omg, those cascades!

Obviously, unlike the Russians, the ISU can't put women into it with men, except Shimada, but, well...anything is better than nothing, and maybe it will give women incentive to jump, because in Russian show Bazylyuk was an undeniable star. Yes, in a jumping tournament. Yes, with senior men participating. And, like, Popov won silver by jumping 4S and 4T versus higher quads.

For me the fact that a very light 12 year old girl is able to outjump almost all adults and that she is very likely to lose that ability when she becomes an adult herself, is one of the strongest arguments against making the number of rotations of jumps the absolute end game of skating.

 

[lariko]

For me the fact that a very light 12 year old girl is able to outjump almost all adults and that she is very likely to lose that ability when she becomes an adult herself, is one of the strongest arguments against making the number of rotations of jumps the absolute end game of skating.

And for me it's what makes it exciting. It gives all the power to women to perform when and whatever they want and to reach the biggest accolades

 

[icewhite]

Nope. Jumping tournament is specifically interesting because it is in the same sport as the SP and FS. It perfectly added the component now so lacking. For the choreo and footwork fests there are ice dance, synchro and galas. But there is nothing to see the top skaters going to the top of their jumping ability, unless their name is Malinin. But I bet, Malinin can jump cascades that will blow one's mind. Compare to what the skaters were doing in the tournament, FS is nothing, limiting the number of jumps per a jumping pass far too much.

Galas are not competitions. Synchro is not Olympic and it's about a team of 16 working together. Ice dance has lifts and other stunts and is a lot about synchronization of two skaters.
Single skating should be at least to a not irrelevant degree about gliding, steps, turns, musical interpretation of a single skater.

 

[icewhite]

And for me it's what makes it exciting. It gives all the power to women to perform when and whatever they want and to reach the biggest accolades

A girl who at 8 gets questioned about eating an additional yoghurt is hardly an example of women's empowerment, come on.

 

[lariko]

Galas are not competitions. Synchro is not Olympic and it's about a team of 16 working together. Ice dance has lifts and other stunts and is a lot about synchronization of two skaters.
Single skating should be at least to a not irrelevant degree about gliding, steps, turns, musical interpretation of a single skater.

And it also shouldn't be cutting out jumping passes and it should consider additional venues to showcase jumping talent while it opens new venues for showcasing not jumping stuff, instead of continously shaming and berating people for liking the jumps.

 

[TallyT]

A girl who at 8 gets questioned about eating an additional yoghurt is hardly an example of women's empowerment, come on.

Rather I would say that the quad girls are clear evidence of disempowerment. Maybe that will change if the rise in age means they can become (still very young) women before being damaged and discarded.

 

[lariko]

A girl who at 8 gets questioned about eating an additional yoghurt is hardly an example of women's empowerment, come on.

negligence and cruelty towards minors is negligence and cruelty. It is also done in pursuit of choreography, flexibility and steps when it's done. If you think Japanese or Korean super-gliders are treated any differently...

 

[skatesofgold]

Firstly, I think it's fair to remember that even if we don't admit or even recognise it, everyone views these proposals and pretty much everything officiadom, the judges etc do, through the lens of 'how will it affect my favourite competitors' (unless you don't actually have favourites competing at the minute, like, well me, there are some I like, like a lot, but there's no one I'm that invested in even enough to remember what their programs are. I'm hoping that changes when the juniors start coming up the ranks.) Objectivity is a furphy in sporting fandom and that is right and good and natural. So many (not all, I'm not alone in not having 'em) comments are subjective that way. Again, right and good and natural.

Malinin won't be harmed by these proposals, but it's natural that his fans, who want him to be the Next Superstar since... ummm... the last one who proved not so much to be, want the rules to be canted towards his strengths. As will those with the next candidate for superstardom.


It's not. It's one way to like the sport. But it's not the only, or right, or modern, or 'true' way, because there's no such animal. And if more folk on this board prefer to like a balance, that's just another way to like.

Sure seems like it to me. We wouldn't get into these debates then. It's just my perspective.

 

[Anna K.]

negligence and cruelty towards minors is negligence and cruelty. It is also done in pursuit of choreography, flexibility and steps when it's done. If you think Japanese or Korean super-gliders are treated any differently...

That's why there is only one way how to fight it. Stop giving the biggest accolades to it. That's all

And/or stop deeming it "super exciting" in your social media posts

 

[lariko]

Jumping tournament was open to everyone who can jump well, without prejudice against age or gender. And it is up to eqch woman to evolve her career and skills, adapting to changing body and lifestyle--just like men do as they age. They have an additional option while in juniors to rely on their lighter and slimmer build. Nothing says they can't continue toward perfecting skills more in synch with a women's bodies in their later teens and twenties. So, yes, it's an empowerment and acknowledging the changes in a woman with adolescence and adulthood.

 

[skatesofgold]

negligence and cruelty towards minors is negligence and cruelty. It is also done in pursuit of choreography, flexibility and steps when it's done. If you think Japanese or Korean super-gliders are treated any differently...

Yeah, it's not like there aren't horror stories, like Gracie's, in other countries besides Russia. Just because a woman is an adult doesn't mean coaches won't treat them with cruelty.

 

[lariko]

That's why there is only one way how to fight it. Stop giving the biggest accolades to it. That's all

And/or stop deeming it "super exciting" in your social media posts

How about bashing the nations that at least speak out about it and pretending that all the other ones that keep quiet have healthy, happy children figure skaters and they don’t suffer the same abuse and eating disorders. The fact that we know about the Russian yogurt is a positive development. The fact that we don’t know about Japanese or Swiss one...is not. The next step is ISU becoming tough on abuse, starting with referees and medical teams getting empowered to take skaters off the ice. Period.

Russians made a great scapegoat, but if banishing them is something that satisfies people for long where abuse is concerned, that's just cruel toward the athletes and doesn't solve the problem of systematic abuse in sport.

 

[skatesofgold]

How about bashing the nations that at least speak out about it and pretending that all the other ones that keep quiet have healthy, happy children figure skaters and they don’t suffer the same abuse and eating disorders. The fact that we know about the Russian yogurt is a positive development. The fact that we don’t know about Japanese one...is not. The next step is ISU becoming tough on abuse, starting with referees and medical teams getting empowered to take skaters off the ice. Period.

Yeah, and it's like haven't we heard about male figure skaters having crappy diets.

 

[icewhite]

This is getting so off-topic that I'll stay off this debate now, but I don't think I'm guilty of thinking or expressing that children and teenagers are only abused in figure skating in Russia. That's not what I said or meant and not the point, my point was Bazylyuk's jumping is not a sign of female empowerment, so I don't see any need to adjust rules or tournaments to have more of that.

 

[Anna K.]

How about bashing the nations that at least speak out about it and pretending that all the other ones that keep quiet have healthy, happy children figure skaters and they don’t suffer the same abuse and eating disorders. The fact that we know about the Russian yogurt is a positive development. The fact that we don’t know about Japanese or Swiss one...is not. The next step is ISU becoming tough on abuse, starting with referees and medical teams getting empowered to take skaters off the ice. Period.

Russians made a great scapegoat, but if banishing them is something that satisfies people for long where abuse is concerned, that's just cruel toward the athletes and doesn't solve the problem of systematic abuse in sport.

I absolutely agree with you. We can only reach a positive development worldwide if we don't pretend that ousting Russia has solved the problem.. Instead, we need to analyze and learn from Russian mishaps as anyone should learn from any negative example. Then, by time, we can hope that skaters and coaches who are fans of Tutberidze group methods in Japan, Switzerland and elsewhere will also question their choices and we will finally enjoy some positive impacts of this sad story.

 

[Anna K.]

Talking about the jumping competitions, I think that development is perfect right now. The discipline is new, so it needs to boil in its own juice for a while. Which is exactly what it can currently do in Russia. Later, if the participation grows wide enough, it can apply for becoming an ISU or X-sport competition or even becoming an Olympic sport.
It would provide an extra medal option for best jumpers. And, it would also absorb the jump-obsessed segment of FS fandom who are now hanging around in FS sites around the web regardless of having zero interest in skating

 

[Mathman]

The discipline is new,

Not all that new. The ISU used to sponsor Top Jump competitins as dar back as the turn of the century..

Here is an article from the New York Times about the 2001 event (Alexei Yagudin won). You might have to sign up for an account to read the whole article, bt the title is "More Spills than Thrills in Skating's Top Jump."

More Spills Than Thrills In Skating's 'Top Jump' (Published 2001)

There were more spectacular spills than jumps, more duds than fireworks as figure skating attempted to showcase its athletic side over the weekend..In a sport where the thin line between athleticism and entertainment is often . blurred, the "Top J

www.nytimes.com

"While the concept — a jumping shootout where the last skater standing wins — was refreshingly simple, the competition also proved that stripped of spins, music, titillating costumes, elaborate choreography and marks for artistic impression, not to mention all of its stars, figure skating is, well, boring."

The 2003 event was cancelled, as was noted by this brief Golden Skate thread at the time.

Top Jump competition Cancelled (FYI)

Was informed by ISU that this event, scheduled to be held in Lyon, France this week, has been cancelled.

www.goldenskate.com

Besides the official ISU series, there have been many attempts over the years by national federations and local entrepreneurs to stir up interest in this type of thing. Everything old is new again.

 

[el henry]

And for me it's what makes it exciting. It gives all the power to women to perform when and whatever they want and to reach the biggest accolades

It gives power to tweens.

It gives absolutely no power to women.

ETA: And maybe I shouldn't comment, since I cannot imagine anything more boring and less athletic than a pure jumping tournament. I have not watched and cannot imagine the circumstances under which I would watch such a contest.