ISU releases official agenda with proposals for 2024: age limits, jump limits and more

[el henry]

The official agenda for the 2024 ISU Congress (h/t to @saine for the link).

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/33753-isu-communication-2629/file

Now we can discuss what is actually before the ISU.

If someone wants to provide an executive summary of the FS proposals, that would be great. That would not be me.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I’ll make my plea for the jump limit to have a nay vote.

 

[icewhite]

actually the parts I was/am most interested in was/is whether they change the bv/GOE limits of the non jumping elements and the rules for switching feds

 

[saine]

Page 76, the Netherlands is proposing an automatic 50% reduction on base value for a fall on a jump with the added -5 GOE (so a 4A with a fall would be at 6.25 BV with -5 GOE for a score of 3.13)

Page 77, Austria is proposing not to go to the qualifying rounds for the upcoming season since there's questions on the Combined TES and what it will be. Plus fewer skaters listed in the final results could mean reduced funding.

 

[4everchan]

Page 76, the Netherlands is proposing an automatic 50% reduction on base value for a fall on a jump with the added -5 GOE (so a 4A with a fall would be at 6.25 BV with -5 GOE for a score of 3.13)

loving this

Page 77, Austria is proposing not to go to the qualifying rounds for the upcoming season since there's questions on the Combined TES and what it will be. Plus fewer skaters listed in the final results could mean reduced funding.

this too.. i hate the q rounds

 

[TontoK]

Some online chatter/gossip confirmed in these proposals:

Euler doesn't count as a jump in a sequence. So jump-Eu-jump-jump (for example) seems permissible.

Somersault elements removed from "banned elements" because they are "very spectacular", and it no longer makes sense to ban them.

 

[ladyjane]

loving this

this too.. i hate the q rounds

I like the Dutch proposal (I am from The Netherlands myself, but didn't know beforehand), and also the one on the qualifying rounds. I'd rather they lift the minimum TES than introduce those.

 

[saine]

Anything GOEs has an article on the proposed changes for Pairs. Fabio Bianchetti is interviewed as part of it, also has reactions from skaters and coaches.

 

[Mathman]

Somersault elements removed from "banned elements" because they are "very spectacular", and it no longer makes sense to ban them.

I don't have an opinion on this, but sometimes the ISU gives the impression that they don't know their own mind.

Backflips were spectacular in 1998 when Surya Bonaly did one. They were spectaular in 1976 when Terry Kubricka did it. Now all of a sudden they are "very spectacular" and therefore to be alllowed and encouraged? What changed?

 

[Arigato]

No hysteria in the agenda regarding somersaults. Imagine that.

 

[saine]

I don't have an opinion on this, but sometimes the ISU gives the impression that they don't know their own mind.

Backflips were spectacular in 1998 when Surya Bonaly did one. They were spectaular in 1976 when Terry Kubricka did it. Now all of a sudden they are "very spectacular" and therefore to be alllowed and encouraged? What changed?

They got attention on social media from outside the figure skating community. That makes them very spectacular now.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I sort of doubt that all of them will be voted through.

 

[FlossieH]

I am very unsure about the proposed upper age limits for Junior pairs. I don't feel it is right for established senior pairs such as the current Georgian and Australian pairs to still be able to compete as juniors. I am okay with teams being allowed to compete in both categories for one season to aid the transition to seniors, but not longer-term. Beyond 19 and 21 the female and male partners have matured into adults and, in pairs, I feel that gives them a significant competitive advantage over those in the 15-19/21 age group.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I am very unsure about the proposed upper age limits for Junior pairs. I don't feel it is right for established senior pairs such as Georgian and Australian pairs to still be able to compete as juniors. I am okay with teams being allowed to compete in both categories for one season to aid the transition to seniors, but not longer-term. Beyond 19 and 21 the female and male partners have matured into adults and, in pairs, I feel that gives them a significant competitive advantage over those in the 15-19/21 age group.

In addition, we shouldn't be encouraging HUGE age differences in pairs when the girl is still around 13-15/16. And the dude is like 20. Or 19 for 13 and 14.

 

[FlossieH]

In addition, we shouldn't be encouraging HUGE age differences in pairs when the girl is still around 13-15/16. And the dude is like 20. Or 19 for 13 and 14.

They are proposing a maximum age gap of 7 years in the Junior category (and the same for ice dance). There are safety reasons why it is beneficial for the male to be older than the female in Junior pairs, but 7 years is still a big age gap. However, it is permitted with the current minimum age of 13 and maximum of 21 for males in pairs.

 

[cheerknithanson]

They are proposing a maximum age gap of 7 years in the Junior category (and the same for ice dance). There are safety reasons why it is beneficial for the male to be older than the female in Junior pairs, but 7 years is still a big age gap. However, it is permitted with the current minimum age of 13 and maximum of 21 for males in pairs.

For sure. Like back in the 2022-2023 season, the partnership of Sophia B and Daniel T (Not trying to look up the spelling right now) of the USA made me uncomfortable as she turned 14 in like November 2022 and he turned 21 in February/March 2023.

Obviously it's safer in juniors when the male partner is older since he's bigger and stronger, but an age gap of 13 and 20 in pairs is a giant yikes for me. I don't care how good they are.

 

[ladyjane]

Obviously it's safer in juniors when the male partner is older since he's bigger and stronger, but an age gap of 13 and 20 in pairs is a giant yikes for me. I don't care how good they are.

Exactly! That's why I would see an age gap of 7 years as a first step, and reduce that to max 4-5 yrs later on. I get that girls mature earlier but 13 and 20 is still wrong. And don't quote me on age gaps when the skaters are adult and senior, that really is not the point. The older you get, the less it's an issue.

 

[el henry]

No hysteria in the agenda regarding somersaults. Imagine that.

Since there is no "hysteria" anywhere regarding somersaults, why would there be "hysteria" in the agenda? Imagine that.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

A Summary of the Agenda of the 59th Ordinary Congress as Outlined in Communication No. 2629​

The Boring Part: The Constitution​

• The ISU wants to create a new Constitutional framework because "the current Constitution is difficult to read and is unnecessarily long". That is a dramatic understatement.
• There's a lot of drama over the requirements to be a technical specialist/referee/judge/ISU official, not having ISU officials serve on judging panels, and setting term and age limits
• Canada is fixing every single grammatical error, redundant sentence, and unclear date. That's literally half of this proposal. There is a whole amendment for a missing bracket.
• The United States would like to split the Singles & Pairs Technical Committee so pairs has their own committee. The ISU says "LOL nah, we don't have the money".
• Canada wants to have the levels of difficulty and program requirements published by April 15th of each year. The Council says that it's a good idea and they probably should do that, but we change the rules every two years in June so sorry skaters, have fun reworking your programs next season!

The Boring Part 2: General Regulations​

• More Canada wanting to fix date stuff. Go Canada, I guess they're (rightfully) mad about unclear ISU rules
• The Netherlands wants skaters to be able to display logos, brands, designs, and/or sponsorship markings on their boots. The marking may not be larger than 20 cm², and only one is permitted per boot
• The ISU Council wants to raise the age limit for junior women in pairs to 21 and junior men to 23, but only a 7-year age gap is permitted between the skaters. The basic novice age maximum will rise to 14, the intermediate novice to 16, and advanced novice to 16 for singles skaters and paired girls and 18 for pairs/dance boys
• The US would like to lower the age limit for senior pairs skaters to 16 in order to help "rebuild pairs". The ISU Council is not happy about this, and instead points to their above junior pairs age limit changes.
• Canada wants to raise the ice dance age limit in juniors to 21 for both partners, citing gender equality. The ISU Council again says "see above"
• Canada wants any skater who switches countries who, after they receive their permit from their former federation, must sit out one season and submit proper documentation. The ISU Council says that this is too much paperwork.
• Finland wants entries to only be able to be withdrawn by the country that made the entry, or by a team leader or ISU representative, and the host federation must immediately be notified. The ISU Council says that this is too much detail, even for them, but they will maybe publish it somewhere else
• Austria wants any ISU official to not officiate any major ISU event, and the Council agrees but it will take effect next season because rules
• Medal ceremony stuff. Very boring

The Juicy Stuff: Proposals for the Figure Skating Section

• Canada proposes that music rotation order will be alphabetical (when not based on start order), so that in seasons beginning with years ending with an odd number, the rotation will go from countries in an A-Z order and in even-number-ending-season-beginning-years, the order will start with M and end with L. Confused yet? Good.
• Japan has the best proposal EVER. Competitions should not begin earlier than 9am and cannot finish later than 10pm. Thank you, as I (and the athletes) very much so enjoy sleeping and not waking up at 4:30 in the morning for official practice
• The ISU recommends not calling names in the dressing room prior to competition so that skaters can concentrate
• Skaters are now allowed to bow before skating a program. I didn't even know this was still a rule
• The PCS factors are recommended to be moved to the current season communication and the Scales of Value chart with GOE and the like
• Germany wants a point deducted in ice dance for every time the skaters adjust the music to fit a certain tempo. Which... like... that's a lot of music and also how are you going to check that? Is Barbara Fusar-Poli going to go all detective and listen to the two pieces to determine if they've been altered?
• The Netherlands wants all quadsters to be punished for a fall. The Violations deduction chart will no longer include falls, and instead a fall will be attached to an element and reduce the base value by 50%, just like with a downgrade. So... how are we doing downgraded jumps then? You get 0% of the BV if you fall?
• The US wants a clock on-screen to determine extended lifts, not Barbara Fusar-Poli with her stopwatch
• The ISU wants Championship events to not exceed 8 days, as opposed to the prior seven
• Entries should be put out 28 days before an event, as opposed to the previous 21
• Austria would like to get rid of the Qualifying Round, which will begin next season.
• More editing and judging requirements. Blah.
• Seminar attendance for judging. Carry on. Not important.
• It's still going. It's like fifteen pages of this stuff
• Referees and Technical Controllers no longer have to participate in victory ceremonies. Huzzah, said everyone! Now, we will no longer have awkward handshakes!
• The ISU wants to have stricter penalties for identified national bias
• Composition will will have unity, connections, and pattern and ice coverage moved to Skating Skills category
• The ISU would like to go back to all FS events being done in reverse starting order. Hallelujah!
• An Euler will no longer be counted as a listed jump. It will have no value and will not be counted as a jump in a combination (ie a 2A+1Eu+3S is now a 2-jump combo). It may not be executed in the SP and only once in the FS. A step-out Euler will still be counted, and you may not change foot in an Euler.
• Somersault type jumps and choreographic lifts with wrong holds are now permitted (Canada I found another typo for you to fix here, the ISU wrote except Chorographic Lift:;"
• A singles FS will now contain a choreographic spin, six jumps, and two combination for both juniors and seniors. In both programs, one jump still must be an axel-type jump
• A jump type, regardless of number of revolutions, may only be included three times or less in a FS, which means that you cannot to two 4Ts and two 3Ts. You can still only jump two 4Ts and two 4Ss and then not repeat another jump.
• A choreographic spin must match the music, have three revolutions executed on a blade, any position is allowed. If it cannot be identified, the third spin will be marked as a ChSp regardless of whether it is or not. Like the choreo sequence, it will have a fixed BV and be scored on GOE
• Twists do not have to land on a backwards outside edge, and death spirals do not have to have a woman's body close to the ice (but her head must be)
• The pairs SP will include a pairs spin combination instead of a solo spin combination, which must have two different basic positions with two revolutions in each position by each partner, must include one change of position and one change of foot by each partner, and a minimum of eight revolutions
• Pairs will have two lifts and one choreographic life, and one choreo spin, in the FS. Only two jump combos are allowed. A choreographic lift must be ascending and descending whilst moving across the ice and have a minimum of one revolution. A choreographic spin is similar to the singles one. The pairs choreo sequence will be removed in the FS.
• Ice dance wants to change the definitions for cross roll, mohawk, choctaw, and swing rocker or counter. Dance lifts will have a minimum length of three seconds

...and we're done! Great job, that was a lot! Obviously, these are all recommendations, and will be amended and voted on at the ISU Congress in June. Nothing is set in stone yet, so don't panic

 

[el henry]

whole post

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