KSU Suspends Hae-in Lee and Young You

[gkelly]

The priority for the ISU is simply to ban any overlap between juniors and seniors in skating, in skating camps, etc. A non-negotiable 17 year old maximum for junior competition and 18 year old minimum for senior competition must be brought in immediately.

That is impossible, because skaters have birthdays and turn 18 all year round. Sometimes between a short program and long program at the same event.

What could be possible would be to have "17 as of July 1" and "18 as of July 1" be separate age categories for that year's competition season.

There would need to be overlaps in pairs and dance (maybe less than 7 years age difference, but more than 1), or else there would be far fewer team that could form at all and even those that do, most of them would have to sit out of competition entirely for at least a year. Even with only days of age difference if one's birthday is in June and the other's in July.

And what about synchro teams in countries or clubs with limited numbers of potential members?

We can't have a sport where children mix with adults in camps and competition as peers, then act shocked when something romantic develops between skaters who train together (I'm talking about two teenagers not two people with a huge age difference).

The ISU could change the age rules to separate 17-year-olds from 18-year-olds in competition.

They could offer guidelines for training camps, especially when traveling as a group away from home, but it would be difficult for them to enforce what various federations all around the world do for all domestic training opportunities sponsored by the federations.

It would be completely impossible for the ISU or large national federations to police what happens at local rinks. Skaters of all ages often train on the same ice.

Some federations already have restrictions on how participants over 18 can interact with minors in official capacities. Which wouldn't cover, e.g., skaters of different ages chatting by the side of the boards or while putting on skates.

Not even coaches can police how their skaters might socialize away from the rink.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

She's a teenager who is being publicly accused as being a rapist and child molester for what could be merely a hickey and drinking some soju. I don't think you can really expect her to sit there and wait 2-3 years for this to go to trial to clear her name while she is accused of the most horrible crimes on social media everyday (her career will be over in 2-3 years anyway she can't wait for a trial if she wants to clear her name and reputation).

What crime has she committed releasing text messages with the name concealed?

Posting private messages between two people is NEVER okay no matter what the case is. She didn´t have permission. His identity is alraedy known wide around so that she covered the names doesn´t help. Skater C is undergoing therapy and is traumatized of the whole situation and aftermath, and he is the minor here. Posting this messages will not helping any of them and just make it worse.

It doesn´t matter what your stand of view is if the situation, that you feel the actions were innocent or small and that you feel that she has the right to defend herself in public, is basically confirmed that skater C is feeling uncomfortable about the situation and is having a reaction to it all, and that is enough for it to be taken seriously and he is the victim here!

 

[Karoltyna]

In a sport rife with cases of abusive coaches (physically, psychologically, sexually and even receive awards despite sleeping with children), it's incredible that it's a drunken teenage hickey between skating peers is where the line is drawn (she might be lying of course but I don't think so). It's so typical to make an example of a teenage female like this. Absolutely destroyed her life, taken away something she has dedicated her entire life too (much like happened to another teenage girl back in January). Even if she fights this and is given a reprieve, they will just lowball he in competition and overlook her for selection any way as payback.

The priority for the ISU is simply to ban any overlap between juniors and seniors in skating, in skating camps, etc. A non-negotiable 17 year old maximum for junior competition and 18 year old minimum for senior competition must be brought in immediately.

We can't have a sport where children mix with adults in camps and competition as peers, then act shocked when something romantic develops between skaters who train together (I'm talking about two teenagers not two people with a huge age difference).

The sport isn't healthy, there are many predators around, but this doesn't make this situation any less serious and doesn't cause that her deeds can be justified. I was 12 when a boy I hanged with (in a group of other kids) decided it's right to touch my intimate areas and kiss me. I told him many times I don't want it. I knew it was wrong, he knew it was wrong and we were much younger. Do you think that it mattered that he was 14? It destroyed my life exactly the same way as if he was 20 or 30. I recovered far past my 20 and couldn't built healthy relationship with men for even longer time. You don't habe to penetrate to destroy a person. The fact that she is young and is remarkable skater doesn't erase that what she did was wrong and it's disgusting that people are sugesting it (sorry for strong word, but I've been there, in victim's place and it's hard to hold back). Yes, I agree, children should not compete with adults.

 

[Skating91]

Posting private messages between two people is NEVER okay no matter what the case is.

Haein Lee can post her own conversations unless the other people specifically asked them to remain private.

There is nothing libelous in these conversations, there is nothing false or defamatory.

You probably should rethink how you converse with people online if you believe everything you write will remain private.

It is fortunate she retained copies of the conversations because it might save her reputation from the cyber bullies.

She didn´t have permission.

Likely she does have permission to repost her own conversations.

His identity is alraedy known wide around so that she covered the names doesn´t help. Skater C is undergoing therapy and is traumatized of the whole situation and aftermath, and he is the minor here. Posting this messages will not helping any of them and just make it worse.

We don't know the entire story of course, but it seems C was enthusiastic about the relationship until the hickey. Maybe he was embarrassed about it, or got in trouble from his parents (skating parents can be strict and Korea can be quite conservative). Maybe the trauma is as much from the pressure placed on him by his parents, or maybe the pressure of being a figure skater, or maybe there's shame for getting in trouble for going into the female dorm of his own volition, maybe he's upset his parents won't allow him to see A any more, rather than trauma from the act of the hickey or from receiving a provocative photo from B. Sorry, but I'm skeptical that a hickey and photo is something that would trigger a 15 year old male to experience profound trauma and psychological difficulties. I'm not doubting C, but that alone should not have that affect on someone. Dating is simply too dangerous for teenagers if an unrequited hickey is grounds to lose your livelihood and destroy your reputation.

It doesn´t matter what your stand of view is if the situation, that you feel the actions were innocent or small and that you feel that she has the right to defend herself in public, is basically confirmed that skater C is feeling uncomfortable about the situation and is having a reaction to it all, and that is enough for it to be taken seriously and he is the victim here!

That is life sometimes people feel uncomfortable. Maybe feel a little embarrassed about a hickey, but it is a part of growing up and being a teenager I suppose.

If it is indeed a drunken hickey that sparked all of this, I would have thought a sincere apology from C to A would have sufficed (which she did in the text messages). Skating is a real pressure cooker of a sport that breaks most athletes, attracts hysterical parents and abusive coaches. If he's experiencing trauma from a hickey maybe the KSU should look into his parents and coaches and make sure he's living and training in a healthy environment.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Just want a bit of clarification. In Korean law of consent, do they use international age or Korean age.?
Korean age
It is always one or two years more than your international age. In counting someone's age in Korea, Koreans also consider a year in the womb, so everyone is one year old at birth. Everyone gets one year added to their Korean age on New Year's Day. South Korea is also the only country that practices this.
I assume in Italian law, they use international age.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Thanks to our Korean members who help me with cultural Questions here behind the scenes. I am leaving them alone for now about this situation. I feel for them. But after reading Korean "fans" responses on IG to Haein's apology , many of which are cruel or untrue, I am haunted by the remarks two wonderful Korean fans who spent their time with me explaining their view on the KSU and other Korean fans at Four conts 2023. You are so right. I am ashamed of some of my own skating event buds ...long term buds..serious fans....for making cruel statements about American skaters and have distanced myself from them.... don't like bullies and dont need any more in my life. Not a Christian but unless you walk a mile in some ones shoes or feel like you are without sin, I wouldnt be casting too many stones....

 

[Diana Delafield]

Just want a bit of clarification. In Korean law of consent, do they use international age or Korean age.?
Korean age
It is always one or two years more than your international age. In counting someone's age in Korea, Koreans also consider a year in the womb, so everyone is one year old at birth. Everyone gets one year added to their Korean age on New Year's Day. South Korea is also the only country that practices this.
I assume in Italian law, they use international age.

Off topic, but this is confusing. One of my grandsons was born just before midnight on a New Year's Eve, December 31. So when he was still being examined and wrapped up in the delivery room minutes later, and the clock showed it was now January 1, he would be labelled as two years old in South Korea? One year at the moment of his birth and then another year added when the clock hands moved past midnight?

 

[Sabsi]

Skater B‘s Statement

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

Off topic, but this is confusing. One of my grandsons was born just before midnight on a New Year's Eve, December 31. So when he was still being examined and wrapped up in the delivery room minutes later, and the clock showed it was now January 1, he would be labelled as two years old in South Korea? One year at the moment of his birth and then another year added when the clock hands moved past midnight?

It's the same here in Japan (I also was confused when first moving here that I was almost 1 year older, and being that they are quite liberal/lenient in the abortions thing, but if someone is born, this person, as someone stated above is already almost 1 year old)

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

She's a teenager who is being publicly accused as being a rapist and child molester for what could be merely a hickey and drinking some soju.

With this phrase you exactly explained my personal opinion about this whole commotion. Way, way too overblown, way, way out of proportion and unnecessary in my opinion.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

Off topic, but this is confusing. One of my grandsons was born just before midnight on a New Year's Eve, December 31. So when he was still being examined and wrapped up in the delivery room minutes later, and the clock showed it was now January 1, he would be labelled as two years old in South Korea? One year at the moment of his birth and then another year added when the clock hands moved past midnight?

@Diana Delafield I thought of a way to explain better, hopefully it makes sense.

For example:
I was born December 2nd/1986. Now we are 2024.
Anywhere else, I am 37 years old until December 2nd/2024.
Here in Japan, I am 38 since January1st 2024 at midnight and 1 second. It is by the year.
Now makes sense?

 

[saine]

I have nothing to do with the other half of the topic for the time being, especially because C's press release doesn't really reveal what jared him so much that he needs to see a psychiatrist. there is no mention of video, pornographic images, or violence.

He didn't understand what the act entailed and was uncomfortable and upset with what happened. There doesn't need to be pornographic images or violence to upset him. He seems to be processing everything that happened and now has private conversations being made public in order to downplay what happened.

I hope he is getting all the support and help that he needs at this time. My thoughts are with him.

 

[Diana Delafield]

@Diana Delafield I thought of a way to explain better, hopefully it makes sense.

For example:
I was born December 2nd/1986. Now we are 2024.
Anywhere else, I am 37 years old until December 2nd/2024.
Here in Japan, I am 38 since January1st 2024 at midnight and 1 second. It is by the year.
Now makes sense?

I see that that's the way the rule works out (like with racehorses). It just doesn't seem logical, in my grandson's case, to call him two years old when he was really less than an hour old. However, I'm sure they had some reason for establishing that system centuries ago, or however long ago it was.

A friend of mine was born in a small village in northern China, and has no idea when her birthday is or even what year. Births weren't recorded. Eventually someone took an arbitrary guess as to the year, and she chose July 1, Canada Day, as her birthday when her family moved here.

 

[Joekaz]

If Haein think she is treated wrong and wants justice she should leave it to the trial with all the proof and not show private messages off to the public without permission, particular when the person involved is a minor. She is the adult person her but doesn´t act like one.

Her career didn´t need to be ruined if she stayed calm and left it up to the court to decide, but with the ways she reacts now in public she certainly does destroy her career on her own without even having the final outcome of the suspension.

I also think she potentially risk a bigger suspension now with posting all those messages on story without permission.

She probably is responding to all the moral avengers out their jumping to conclusions and condemning her

 

[Diana Delafield]

He didn't understand what the act entailed and was uncomfortable and upset with what happened. There doesn't need to be pornographic images or violence to upset him. He seems to be processing everything that happened and now has private conversations being made public in order to downplay what happened.

I hope he is getting all the support and help that he needs at this time. My thoughts are with him.

As I said in an earlier comment, having four brothers, two sons, and now six grandsons, I know how confusing it can be for adolescent boys. They feel one way about a situation like this but think they're supposed to put on a show of feeling something else, and I'm sorry for the kid. The court of public opinion has no jurisdiction over this event at all.

 

[Joekaz]

As I said in an earlier comment, having four brothers, two sons, and now six grandsons, I know how confusing it can be for adolescent boys. They feel one way about a situation like this but think they're supposed to put on a show of feeling something else, and I'm sorry for the kid. The court of public opinion has no jurisdiction over this event at all.

I'm also sure you realize how confused and illogical teenage girls can be when it comes to romantic situations, and that she shouldn't be thrown under the bus either.

 

[triplelutzzzzz]

It's wildly disturbing how quickly some of y'all turn your backs on victims of sexual assault/harassment/misconduct. Yes, the victim is a male, but that doesn't mean he should feel lucky for having been assaulted. If the genders were reversed and it was a junior female skater who was harassed by a senior male skater, we wouldn't be having this much debate.

We don't know how old the junior male skater is, but given the people at the camp, there were only a select number of people there who were junior and male. There is a high possibility that this boy was quite young (14-15) in comparison to the 19 and 20 year old senior skaters. And, to be honest, the age shouldn't even matter. What should matter is that someone was sexually assaulted. Now, maybe I'm wrong, maybe something else happened, however, we will never know because we weren't there! What I do know is that believing victims should come first and be paramount.

To sit here and debate over the validity of a sexual harassment claim is ridiculous. This is not an attempt to ruin a female skater's career, this is not misogynistic; this is a sexual harassment case. Both of the senior female skaters are adult women, they should know better, so infantilizing them by saying "they didn't know any better" is insane (and, in my opinion, it's racist because the infantilization of Asian women is a widespread issue). Saying it was just a mistake is also insane because in what world is sexual assault/harassment/misconduct a mistake?

The age shouldn't matter and the circumstances shouldn't matter. Unwanted sexual contact took place and that is assault. We don't know everything, but we do know is that unwanted sexual contact took place and that should be enough.

 

[Azikin]

It's wildly disturbing how quickly some of y'all turn your backs on victims of sexual assault/harassment/misconduct.

So you still think he's been "assaulted"? I think it's more disturbing how quickly some people turn their backs on those two girls being accused.

 

[Joekaz]

So you still think he's been "assaulted"? I think it's more disturbing how quickly some people turn their backs on those two girls being accused.

Absolutely right. For some weird reason the skating power structure and community loves to over sexualize the young girls and infantilize the boys, both usually for the benefit of grown men.

 

[Skating91]

A & B's statements seem believable and credible, whereas the C's lawyer made a somewhat evasive statement.

The lawyer says A kissed C on the neck leaving a mark. C did not know what a hickey was and was very embarrassed, so immediately left the room? Hickeys don't really show up absolutely immediately (it's been a long time), then he would have had to have been at a mirror staring at his neck waiting for it to show up. Then if he was confused about the bruising on his neck, he should have asked one of the females they could have said that is a hickey or even used something like google or a Korean equivalent to look up neck kiss left a mark and it would have shown that it was a harmless mark that would eventually go away and not some kind of disease. He's a figure skater and has probably taken heavy falls on his knees and bruises have appeared many times and they eventually go away. Surely he realised the mark was from her sucking on his neck and surely he didn't think it would be there permanently.

This explanation is not credible or believable, whereas everything coming from the two women is credible and makes sense.

Then the lawyer added that the client suffered severe psychological shock due to the incident, he had to see a psychiatrist because it's making it difficult for him to train.

Severe psychological shock? It would be believable if they left it at finding it difficult to train (conflicted feelings maybe about the female, about breaking up, parents won't let him see her, maybe a little distracted so missing his jumps, etc), but I just don't believe severe psychological shock as a result of this hickey. Especially when they express feelings for each other on a messaging app, when they were actually together in the past, when he voluntarily broke the rules to go visit her in the female dorm (you can almost excuse her for interpreting his actions the wrong way).

I hope C can get the help that he needs, but it just seems like the hickey was a trigger for some severe psychological issues that were bubbling away under the surface (no doubt due to figure skating being a pressure cooker of a sport).