There have been books written about corruption and politics in skating written by former judges. Many ex skaters openly talk about the influence of the federations and how they favor skaters. You don't remember the Salt Lake City scandal? If you dont think there is a political aspect in skating, I think you are in the extreme minority.
2024 GP France: Women's Thoughts?
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I for one am not outraged by the judging in the Grand Prix this season. (Yes, i know that puts me in the minority. 
) The technical panels have been strict on rotations -- something that I expect will loosen up as the season progresses toward the big championships at season's end.
As for the judges, what stood out most to me were the overall depressed PCSs. At least in ladies the top performers are getting low to mid 8;s, unlike the men who are seeing a lot of 7's this year.
Amber Glenn delivered a clean short program and landed a triple Axel (an accomplishment that the ISU wants to encourage, I think). She banked a lot of points.
In the long program she flubbed three of her jumping passes -- and was properly nailed in GOE, dropping her to third in the segment. I do not see any reason to call foul so far.
) The technical panels have been strict on rotations -- something that I expect will loosen up as the season progresses toward the big championships at season's end.As for the judges, what stood out most to me were the overall depressed PCSs. At least in ladies the top performers are getting low to mid 8;s, unlike the men who are seeing a lot of 7's this year.
Amber Glenn delivered a clean short program and landed a triple Axel (an accomplishment that the ISU wants to encourage, I think). She banked a lot of points.
In the long program she flubbed three of her jumping passes -- and was properly nailed in GOE, dropping her to third in the segment. I do not see any reason to call foul so far.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
EVERY year there are complaints about the judging. Until or if this is ever automated it's always going to be up for criticism by people sitting in front of their TVs or rink side that don't have the benefit of replay (which I find critical to making decisions) or years of experience in judging. I didn't think the judging was so outrageous so far.
The technical panels have indeed been very strict so far. That's why Amber having 3 terrible landings and not even getting a q is more than a little suspicious, dont you think.I for one am not outraged by the judging in the Grand Prix this season. (Yes, i know that puts me in the minority.
As for the judges, what stood out most to me were the overall depressed PCSs. At least in ladies the top performers are getting low to mid 8;s, unlike the men who are seeing a lot of 7's this year.
Amber Glenn delivered a clean short program and landed a triple Axel (an accomplishment that the ISU wants to encourage, I think). She banked a lot of points.
In the long program she flubbed three of her jumping passes -- and was properly nailed in GOE, dropping her to third in the segment. I do not see any reason to call foul so far.
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2023
Bad landings do not necessarily equal underrotations, dear.
You might not necessarily like it, but the judging was fair.
Not necessarily, but 0 out of 3 is unlikely. If you watch her replays they do, dear.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
If you are asking me personally what I think, I think that I would want to see some actual evidence that Amber's jumps were short of rotation. Otherwise, I guess I am just not a naturally suspicious person. A skater can achieve full rotation and still fall.
On the other hand, on the subject of what counts as evidence rather than suspicion, I am thankful that we have passed through the era of a decade ago when skating fans, after every competition, rushed to the Internet to post their home-made videos of the performances with rulers and protractors superinposed to prove how crooked the judging was. (Imagine their exasperation when the reaction to their efforts was, "Huh? I don't see any such thing as what you are ranting about.")
As for the many books that have been written by figure skating insiders on the theme of, "every judge in figure skating is a crook except for me. I judge correctly. -- but those other guys!" ...
Well, OK -- they're probably right.
The IJS was intended to cut down on the role of politics and backroom skulduggery in competitive figure skating. Did it work? I will leave that question to the historians among us. Back in the 1990s the budget of the ISU was largely underwritten by the multi-million dollar contract between the USFSA and (US) ABC television. (This. in fact, was the basis of former ISU President Ottavio Cinquanta's reputation, in the his first years of service, as a financial wizard who brought prospreity to the sport.) As they say, he who pays the piper calls the tune.
Who pays the piper now? Japan? Anybody at all? Russia is temporarily sidelined, Canadian skating seems to have colloapsed, USA is pretty much over the sport.
Last edited:
There is a good video on YouTube with everyone's jumps on it you might want to check out. You have to remember that you have to look at how strictly the other girls were judged, not just what you think of a particular jump. Actually camera angle is often more important than slow motion,tbh.If you are asking me personally what I think, I think that I would want to see some actual evidence that Amber's jumps were short of rotation. Otherwise, I guess I am just not a naturally suspicious person. A skater can achieve full rotation and still fall.
On the other hand, on the subject of what counts as evidence rather than suspicion, I am thankful that we have passed through the era of a decade ago when skating fans, after every competition, rushed to the Internet to post their home-made videos of the performances with rulers and protractors superinposed to prove how crooked the judging was. (Imagine their exasperation when the reaction to their efforts was, "Huh? I don't see any such thing as what you are ranting about.")
As for the many books that have been written by figure skating insiders on the theme of, "every judge in figure skating is a crook except for me. I judge correctly. -- but those other guys!" ...
Well, OK -- they're probably right.
The IJS was intended to cut down on the role of politics and backroom skulduggery in competitive figure skating. Did it work? I will leave that question to the historians among us. Back in the 1990s the budget of the ISU was largely underwritten by the multi-million dollar contract between the USFSA and (US) ABC television. (This. in fact, was the basis of former ISU President Ottavio Cinquanta's reputation, in the his first years of service, as a financial wizard who brought prospreity to the sport.) As they say, he who pays the piper calls the tune.
Who pays the piper now? Japan? Anybody at all? Russia is temporarily sidelined, Canadian skating seems to have colloapsed, USA is pretty much over the sport.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
Amber fortunately was so far ahead of the rest of the field after the SP that she could make 3 mistakes and still eke out the win. She's certainly not the only skater to win the competition with a solid SP and a yucky FS. Maybe there should have been more of a deduction from the PCS when this happens. In any case, it's not rare and doesn't indicate poor or prejudicial judging. It happens.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
This seems to be a question with no clear consensus on the part of skating fans. Should technical mistakes (or exceptional technical proficiency) have any effect on the program component scores, or should the two be completely separate and independent?
Amber got component scores of 8.36, 8.54, and 8.50 for the excellent and well-received short program. In the error-flawed long program her PCSs were virtually identical: 8.39, 8,29, and 8.64. I think that a case can be made that mistakes on technical elements properly diminish our evaluation of Skating Skills, that they prevent the skater from executing the choreography and musical interpretation convincingly, and in general detract from the overall performnace quality.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2016
I think the judging has been not terrible this season thus far, technically speaking anyways. I think the skating in general this year for the ladies had been a bit lack lustre. In this event every single lady had a Q or under rotation call except Amber who had 1 fall. I think Amber .. with some will if she puts two clean programs together has a serious shot at winning the world championship.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2023
I clearly DID NOT exclude the possibility of politics in sport in my post. I'm questioning the certainty about HOW it works in the sport.
Fan theories about politics are often incorrect and contradictory- but they're still being repeated like it's fact. When they're proven wrong, it's all confusion about why reality doesn't match the theory.
if you're not talking from personal experience and aren't hearing from a genuine and direct source who does know, how can you be so certain? The Salt Lake scandal is well documented, verfied- we clearly know what happened. Some random person on the internet making up stories to fit the facts (e.g "that skater is doing well at the expense of another, it's all down to the coach choosing to politick more for that one" or "that skating federation/judges HATE that person" ) is not really the same, is it? Yet these things spread and many seem to believe them.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2023
Not really, no.
My question then is why do so many skaters and coaches believe it? That's where this belief originates, not from fans. Fans speculate as to when and who it occurs with, true. But the fact that it exists does not come from fans, its from people inside skating. Go read the books and articles about it if you want to know how. Im more concerned that it exists at all.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I blame the Internet. In last Sunday's NFL football game the referees missed a possible pass interference call ("the most obvious pass interference in the history of American football !!!!!!!!"), which allowed the Detroit Lions to go ahead and win the game when they made two field goals at the end of the fourth quarter while their opponents missed their field goal attempt which would have put them ahead.
Tik-tok erupted in outrage over this "proof" that the game war rigged beforehand by the sinister forces that control the sport (and the whole rest of the world as well) behind closed doors.
As a Lion's fan, I was less outraged.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think it is because coaches and ayheletes always get mad when officials' calls don't go their way. This is evidence of human nature, not necessarily of skulduggery on the part of those lyin', cheatin' officials who are out to get me.
That said, the worst thing that can happen in any sport is for the spectators to leave the arena grumbling about the refereeing instead of celebrating the great plays that the game delivered. Figure skating -- with its legacy of subjective judging and reliance on "style points" suffers more than most sports in this regard.
Its possible that they are all sore losers as you say. Its also possible that at least some of them honestly know what they are talking about. Its not debatable that corruption has been documented in skating however. So its up to the individual to use there own common sense to believe what they want. If I watch an Olympic boxing match where a competitor is knocked down 6 times and still wins the decision (this actually happened), and boxing , like skating is known for corruption in judging, is it wrong to be dubious of the outcome? Do I need to know exactly how this corruption happened to say anything?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
They are not sore losers, they're just human.
A baseball umpire calls a ball or a strike. Half of the stadium erupts with calls of "kill the umpire," the other half cheers. Each side 100% believes that they are objectively right -- that oitch was right down the center of the plate.
Are you blind? it was wide by a mile.
At the same time, yes, of course we should be vigilant about bad actors in the judging ranks. Throw the bums out.
The problem was when we did catch them we didn't throw them out. We allowed them to change the scoring system to better hide their corruption. Lol
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
The most hilarious response of the ISU to the Salt Lake City judging scandal was this: We will solve the probelm by introducing anonymous judging. That way, when judges cheat, no one will be able to figure out which jusdges were doing it.
What, you don't see how this will help? Well, that way when a crook like federation president Gailhaguet makes a deal to fix the results and orders the French judges to go along, he won't know if they followed orders or not, allowing the individual judges to double-cross him.
Similar threads
