Replay Lounge 2025 GP de France

[frompolandwithlove]

They are humans, and they can have subjective opinions. Objective opinion is also not necessarily the opinion you, personally, agree with.

"Objective opinion" is kind of an oxymoron, isn't it? But still - of course they are human, of course they can have opinions and even feelings about skaters. And I (also a human) can be annoyed that too much of their feelings make me feel like i'm listening to a fanboy rant and not a sport commentary.

To me, the bottom line is still what Tonto K said. If you want to beat Malinin, you have to beat him. Whining on the Internet won't do it.

Yes, but who disagrees with that? I don't see any whining that Ilia won.

 

[TontoK]

Yes, but who disagrees with that? I don't see any whining that Ilia won.

My point was more about fans thinking Ilia is unbeatable, and he's not. Skaters are going to have to do a better job taking care of their own program and forcing Ilia to beat them.

Example from last WC: Yuma was very close to Ilia at the WC after the short. And sadly, he had a free program meltdown that left him lucky to even make the podium. Ilia takes the ice with almost no pressure and breezes away with the title skating a flawed program. I think he popped a lutz, lost a combo, and maybe had a q or two thrown in.

How might things have turned out if Yuma had skated a clean program with his planned content and put some pressure on Ilia? Who knows. We'll never know, of course, because he didn't do what he needed to do. Very infrequently do the other men do their part and force Ilia to deliver the goods. It's been a year plus of botched short programs that leave them no chance or solid short programs that DO give them a chance, followed up with a LP meltdown.

I was going to say those shortfalls don't have anything to do with Ilia - that's all on the competitors - but on reflection, maybe that's not right. Perhaps they're psyched out because they believe even one mistake will ruin their chances, or maybe they're trying unreliable content because they'll be blown out if they don't.

 

[Mathman]

Yes, but who disagrees with that? I don't see any whining that Ilia won.

There is no whining about the fact that he won. The whining comes in with all the, "He'll never be Gillis Grafstrom no matter how many medals he wins, and plus, I don't like his personality, so there!"

Edit to add: Along with, "He wouldn't win so much if the judges didn't cheat all the time."

 

[Arigato]

Not "god", but "quad god."

For goodness sakes, he created that username/acct when he was 13. And I think he has more than earned the right to use it.

The way that post reads, it suggests someone started an account with the username "quad god" at age 13 before they even landed a single quad in competition. Ilia didn't land his first quad in competition until age 15. (If In fact you were referring to Ilia.) So, no, nothing was earned when the account was opened.

An account Ilia started at age 13 was this one:
https://www.instagram.com/lutzgod/?hl=en

lutzgod


Daniel Grassl was the youngest male skater to land a quad lutz in international competition at age 15. If anything, one could argue Daniel would earn the right to call himself "lutzgod," before someone who hadn't even landed a quad lutz in international competition.

62K views · 796 reactions | At the age of 15, young Italian figure skating prodigy, Daniel Grassl became the youngest person to land a quad Lutz jump in an international competition. Now a promising star of the next Winter Olympic Games @milanocorti

At the age of 15, young Italian figure skating prodigy, Daniel Grassl became the youngest person to land a quad Lutz jump in an international competition. Now a promising star of the next Winter...

www.facebook.com

 

[gsk8]

Malinin has changed the username several times over the past several years. However, he had the "quad" username for quite some time. It's also a term that's been coined by commentators. Who chose it first, I don't know nor does it really matter.

The point is that you are taking the fact that he calls himself a "god" out of context

 

[Arigato]

Along with, "He wouldn't win so much if the judges didn't cheat all the time."

Got any links? I'm curious who would say such nonsense.

 

[Mathman]

Bo-yang Jin is the Lutzgod.

 

[4everchan]

My point was more about fans thinking Ilia is unbeatable, and he's not. Skaters are going to have to do a better job taking care of their own program and forcing Ilia to beat them.

Example from last WC: Yuma was very close to Ilia at the WC after the short.

It's not really in the short with most of the top guys able to do 2 quads that Ilia can run away with the title. Even with Ilia doing flip and lutz while others may do salchow and toe, the BV advantage is nothing compared to the BV advantage he has in the LP. This is also why a guy like Adam, also able to include 4-5 quads in his LP was able to bounce back at worlds in 2024. With men, the LP is really where things are won most of the time.
With women, it's another ball game because most of them have the same content (except for a few bringing a triple axel in the short) so the SP is where the game can be played.... not necessarily in terms of winning it but remaining in contention. So I don't buy the argument that Yuma could have won if he had skated both programs flawlessly. Ilia's BV is too far ahead in the LP. The only way would be if Yuma got the credit for his incredible skating skills not in terms of the scores he gets but in terms of the differential compared to some of the other skaters. Unfortunately, it's not happening. PCS cushions are more or less dead.

 

[rabidline]

PCS cushions are more or less dead.

The natural conclusion of the men's quad race era, and fitting as its purpose is to overcome such PCS cushion.

 

[ice coverage]

FWIW:

Ilia once had an Instagram account called @lutzboi. In addition to his @lutzgod account. He liked lutz!
(He also has had at least two other Instagram accounts for off-ice stuff and who knows what else.)
After Ilia had a total of four successful quads at 2020 Skate America (two in each program), he renamed the @lutzboi account to @quadg0d.
A video that he posted on the @quadg0d account on Nov 6, 2020, showed a successful quad lutz from his training.
(Some of my old GS posts have documentation of all of the above.)​

ETA:

Lest anyone wonder, I have been an Ilia fan since 2019 JGP Lake Placid.
My understanding is that the term "quadg0d" was born as an expression of Ilia's self-motivation and "go big or go home"-type drive.​

 

[TontoK]

It's not really in the short with most of the top guys able to do 2 quads that Ilia can run away with the title. Even with Ilia doing flip and lutz while others may do salchow and toe, the BV advantage is nothing compared to the BV advantage he has in the LP. This is also why a guy like Adam, also able to include 4-5 quads in his LP was able to bounce back at worlds in 2024. With men, the LP is really where things are won most of the time.
With women, it's another ball game because most of them have the same content (except for a few bringing a triple axel in the short) so the SP is where the game can be played.... not necessarily in terms of winning it but remaining in contention. So I don't buy the argument that Yuma could have won if he had skated both programs flawlessly. Ilia's BV is too far ahead in the LP. The only way would be if Yuma got the credit for his incredible skating skills not in terms of the scores he gets but in terms of the differential compared to some of the other skaters. Unfortunately, it's not happening. PCS cushions are more or less dead.

COULD have won is different than WOULD have won. As I pointed out, Ilia had a popped lutz and subsequent loss of a combination, as well as at least one just with a q (might have been 2 - I don't recall). My belief is that for others to win, they need to skate their best and hope Ilia opens the door. Well, the door was open to some degree - and if he had felt any pressure whatsoever, the door may have opened wider. But we'll never know. Most of Ilia's wins have been no-pressure coronations. I want to know what will happen when he has to skate under pressure.

 

[4everchan]

COULD have won is different than WOULD have won. As I pointed out, Ilia had a popped lutz and subsequent loss of a combination, as well as at least one just with a q (might have been 2 - I don't recall). My belief is that for others to win, they need to skate their best and hope Ilia opens the door. Well, the door was open to some degree - and if he had felt any pressure whatsoever, the door may have opened wider. But we'll never know. Most of Ilia's wins have been no-pressure coronations. I want to know what will happen when he has to skate under pressure.

Pressure doesn't have to come from others. It can come from within.

Anyways, I still don't believe that with the current set of rules, there is a way for Ilia to lose anything, unless he really messes up.. it will take more than a pop and a botched combo

 

[TontoK]

Pressure doesn't have to come from others. It can come from within.

Anyways, I still don't believe that with the current set of rules, there is a way for Ilia to lose anything, unless he really messes up.. it will take more than a pop and a botched combo

You think if Yuma had skated a blinder and really brought the house down (that Boston crowd supported anyone who skated well), and he'd scored some tremendous point total... it wouldn't have made any difference in the pressure Ilia might have felt? Maybe, maybe not. But for once, I want to find out.

 

[4everchan]

You think if Yuma had skated a blinder and really brought the house down (that Boston crowd supported anyone who skated well), and he'd scored some tremendous point total... it wouldn't have made any difference in the pressure Ilia might have felt? Maybe, maybe not. But for once, I want to find out.

I don't think Ilia is the "getting nervous about others' scores" kind of guy. Just my opinion.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Could they jump?

I think they did single jumps (& throws). Like I said, they were essentially hobby skaters who were just doing pairs for fun and as a way to show off (& improve) their acrobatic skills on the ice. If they had been seriously focused on skating, things might have been different (they were both very strong in a physical sense, so lots of pairs elements would not have been an issue with proper technique and training), but that wasn't their goal.

 

[lariko]

Do not forget GoEs. Maxed out PCSs and maxed out GoEs on every element would make Kagiyama competitive if he skates clean. Kagiyama's problem with scoring is not being underscored, it's his multiple falls. There is no secret that when a skater falls it throws off the program from the pace, eliminates choreography as they try to catch up. Even musically gifted skaters like Uno have troubles reducing programs after falls to synch back with the music, as he had once explained in his interview. I mean, is it really something that has to be mentioned on GS forum?

That's why Malinin's programs looked so good in France, he didn't make major mistakes, so they proceeded fluidly as designed and trained. Everything was in its place. Choreographer's work could be viewed as intended, not abbreviated and slapped together on the fly, in a rush.

Malinin is a human being as well, a talented individual who also makes mistakes. In each competition, his mistakes would be weighed against mistakes made by others. That includes what judges saw in practices too.

 

[Anna K.]

I guess I am just easy to please. All a commentator has to do is follow the 3+1 rule. Say three nice things about each skater's performance, and one thing that he can improve on.

I would wish it the other way round. Just dreaming, of course, but still...

What's good about sport and competition in general is that this is a great drive to improve. So I'd like a commentator say 1 nice thing (i.e. "everything's nice about this skater" - before you start splitting hairs, you'd put it into proportion with everything else, you know) and then give me 3 things he/she can improve on.
Allright, if this is an absolute blade master on the ice, then I agree to 3+1: one thing that is still in making and then 3 excellent things close-up with explanation what makes them good so that everybody else can watch and improve

 

[Mathman]

I look at it this way. These earnest young people sacrifice everything for their spot and receive nothing in return but the warm applause of supportive onlookers. If they mess up, they know they have messed up without commentators rubbing it in or detailing exactly why and in what ways they suck.

 

[Anna K.]

they know they have messed up without commentators rubbing it in or detailing exactly why and in what ways they suck.

Look, if I do a sport and I miss a target then maybe for you it is "you messed up" and "you suck" but for me it is a problem to solve. This is the attitude that I prefer to keep myself and the same attitude I prefer to see in any earnest young person and any commentator because I believe that this attitude is a productive attitude
But, quote Mathman, different strokes for different people.
I'm fine with you looking at it as you like. Hope that you are fine with me looking at it as I like.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think Chris is old school. I used to like him and Simon on Eurosport in the 2000 teens. Chris sometimes comes off as bored or jaded. Part of it is probably that commentating is not easy. Chris falls back on turns of phrase and occasional hype and platitudes. But I have been noticing that sometimes he also gives very good insights, and he generally has a good eye for under-rotation calls.

The sport is different now, and it requires good commentators who are able to consistently educate the audience without resorting to overdone superlatives. With Chris, it's a mixed bag. I actually think Johhny Weir is a good analyst, but not when paired with Tara (which is most of the time). Charlie & Tanith White were excellent and insightful together as commentators for every discipline, but they preferred to move on to coaching.

I really like Mark Hanretty and Ted Barton. They have fun together on the JGP. However, I could certainly do without their sugarcoating things and cheerleading for the ISU. I think Mark is usually quite good when he's solo. Still, that's not easy, which is probably why Ted & Mark will be taking over for Chris, reportedly, at some GPs this season. Jean-Luc Baker is also a very good commentator, but so far, he's only covered practices at U.S. Nationals. Many fans say that Belinda Noonan is good, but I have barely heard her coverage, since I don't have a subscription to the streaming channel she works for.