Replay Lounge 2025 GP de France

[frompolandwithlove]

Forgive Chris, he is supposed to hype Ilia, ISU feels the need for new omnious skating hero who will make FS great again and desiganted Ilia for the role. Sure, why not, he has lots of qualities and wins golds everywhere and I guess with appropriate approach it is possible.

Well, it's not like a lot of men have been auditioning for that role.

Well, I guess that's the problem for me - can we really create a hero artificially by hyping one skater so out of proportions (and sacrificing the rest of the bunch in the process)? I don't think so??? If winning everything everywhere is not doing the trick by itself, then maybe, just maybe, he is not the hero they need - at least not yet. You can't gaslight an entire audience into believing they are witnessing the most complete skater that ever graced the earth, they have to recognize it themselves and only then the love and admiration will follow. I think that, frankly, praising him for something he is not is only polarizing and is doing him more harm than good in the long run.
(Another topic is if figure skating truly needs a hero in order to get more viewers and more popularity, but that's not a topic for this thread)

 

[frompolandwithlove]

Me too. At least they didn't have too far to walk this time.

Yes! Thank you! At least i'm not alone in this. True, the walk was short this time, and yet most of them were waving to a crowd already anticipating the next skater (and therefore too busy to cheer for the one still waving), when they finally reached the ice.
Could anyone watching live on the arena please tell me what other skaters already on the ice are doing when another skater is being introduced? I imagine either standing awkwardly in an informal group somewhere on the ice and waiting or already zooming, doing some drills or exercises and therefore distracting the audience from the next introduction and beating the whole purpose of it (which was suppose to be giving every skater time of undivided attention).

 

[TontoK]

Well, I guess that's the problem for me - can we really create a hero artificially by hyping one skater so out of proportions (and sacrificing the rest of the bunch in the process)? I don't think so??? If winning everything everywhere is not doing the trick by itself, then maybe, just maybe, he is not the hero they need - at least not yet. You can't gaslight an entire audience into believing they are witnessing the most complete skater that ever graced the earth, they have to recognize it themselves and only then the love and admiration will follow. I think that, frankly, praising him for something he is not is only polarizing and is doing him more harm than good in the long run.
(Another topic is if figure skating truly needs a hero in order to get more viewers and more popularity, but that's not a topic for this thread)

Hyping out of proportions? He won the event by 40 points with two clean programs. What would be a proportionate amount of praise? Sacrificing the rest of the bunch? Chris was complimentary about all the skaters - even when every single one of them skated flawed programs. What you call creating an artificial hero, others might call recognizing a man so dominant that it's awe-inspiring.

You don't like the programs. I get it, because I don't particularly like them myself at this stage of the season. But other than Yuma's Turandot - which I think is a masterpiece - who exactly do you think IS giving us Olympic-quality programs?

 

[noskates]

I don't think Ilia is being hyped more than any other "frontrunner" has been in the past. Nathen Chen. Plushenko. etc. etc. When it's so clear that one skater is performing above and beyond all others in their discipline it's hard NOT to hype them. There isn't a male skater out there that can beat Ilia when he skates clean or almost clean. Forty points is amazingly significant. The only skater that comes to my mind that's even close is Yuma. And as for Chris' commentary, I found him to be very fair to all the skaters and even tried to find something positive to say about the skaters that struggled the most. This is more than you'll get from Tara and Johnny.

 

[Mathman]

Well, I guess that's the problem for me - can we really create a hero artificially by hyping one skater so out of proportions (and sacrificing the rest of the bunch in the process)? I don't think so??? If winning everything everywhere is not doing the trick by itself, then maybe, just maybe, he is not the hero they need - ,,,

That is the problem that every American male figure skater faces. No amount of competitive success, athletic excellence, or PR hype will move the needle for U.S. sports fans in general.

Outcomes may be different in other countries, of course.

 

[frompolandwithlove]

Hyping out of proportions? He won the event by 40 points with two clean programs. What would be a proportionate amount of praise? Sacrificing the rest of the bunch? Chris was complimentary about all the skaters - even when every single one of them skated flawed programs. What you call creating an artificial hero, others might call recognizing a man so dominant that it's awe-inspiring.

Proportionate amount of praise is praising what he has - probably the best jumps in figure skating history - and not trying so hard to convince everyone watching that he is well-rounded, basically already complete package skater . The audience will tell by themselves. And keep in mind - I talk about hyping during warm-ups, introductions, little in-betweens etc., = long before he even started any of his programs. Of course hyping him when it was his time to skate is absolutely expected, normal and understandable, that's the right moment to be a fanboy. And of course Chris was nice to everyone during and after their performance, no doubt about that. (On unrelated note: I would actually love for commentators to point out difficult footwork elements during programs, that would be very educational for the viewers I think)
And by sacrificing the rest I mean: if commentators are so eager to highlight hard work of the most popular skater, the rest of them don't get their rightful recognition and it sends a message that your progress doesn't really matter if you are not popular enough. Maybe this statement does not apply that much to that particular event, I was kinda thinking about bigger picture and couple of last seasons when I wrote it.

You don't like the programs. I get it, because I don't particularly like them myself at this stage of the season. But other than Yuma's Turandot - which I think is a masterpiece - who exactly do you think IS giving us Olympic-quality programs?

And where did this conclusion come from? I didn't say a word about any of his programs.
There is no need to get so defensive, I'm really not against Ilia, I'm not denying his talent and his massive tech advantage. The only thing I said was about commentator, not Ilia himself.

I don't think Ilia is being hyped more than any other "frontrunner" has been in the past.

Maybe you are right. But I find it annoying nonetheless.

 

[lariko]

Chris doesn't know how to hype, but Malinin is the headliner of the men's program, two times World Champion, so yes, it is perfectly normal that he is mentioned more often than the others, building up to his skating in a Grand Prix stage he is participating. After he leads after the SP it is expected that he will be mentioned during the free skate of the competition as the leader. It is only 12 men. He is the star skater and an anticipated medalist (if not a winner outright). If Adam came in second or first, the emphasis would have been on the rivalry and home country versus the world champion. Egadze is neither a well-known skater, nor truly a rival to Malinin. We probably learned more about Egadze from his press-conference than in all the years he's competed so far. And he was in second after the short.

ISU assumes that some viewers in the big competition had never seen figure skating before in their lives or hadn't tuned in since last Olympics when it was a completely different set of skaters, and the whole hand-holding gets even worse during the Worlds.

During the Olympics, you can expect the commentators (hopefully not Chris) to go through quad axel and his titles every few minutes for any viewers just tuning in so they know this competition is a big deal, this year is a big deal, this Olympics is a big deal in men, and what to watch for. While we have seen Malinin landing 4A for two years a few times a season, the Olympics-only audience has no clue what's happening. They would have to be told multiple times that 4A might be coming if Malinin is in a good form. Or anything else that is going to be there. This is how it works, because it is a big deal. The last quad. The only one on the planet. A C-step performed at exactly two lengths of the blade right there on step 17 is impossible to see and nobody knows when it's coming. But everyone is going to watch Malinin's first or second jumping pass. And everyone is going to notice that his music doesn't come from the horse's cemetery.

During Malinin's second stage in Skate Canada the commentator (Ted Bartons, I assume) will be talking about Malinin as a winner of his first stage; that if he win this stage, he will be the first GPF qualifier; mention his score in the first stage, mention his clean 5-quad skate, and will also highlight who his main competitor is, etc. With Kagiyama not competing until later in the GP stages, the focus will be on Malinin, the winner of the next stage (Shaidorov or Sato or Unexpected Winner), etc... I mean, it's not hard to predict what the focus will be.

If I were a commentator and commentated on a competition with Malinin with it, I'd also be mentioning Malinin and his amazing stats a lot. Maybe it irritates someone, but most of us are excited to see a good competition and one heck of a competitor.

 

[TontoK]

And where did this conclusion come from? I didn't say a word about any of his programs.
There is no need to get so defensive, I'm really not against Ilia, I'm not denying his talent and his massive tech advantage. The only thing I said was about commentator, not Ilia himself.

Fair enough. Maybe I'm just projecting my own dissatisfaction with nearly every program this year, including Ilia's. He can do better. Everyone can do better. It's the Olympic season for goodness sake, and I don't see a whole lot of "stepping it up" anywhere.

And I'm not being defensive. Ilia will win or he won't. I like the daring aspect of men's skating in general and he leads in that category, but I'm not related to him, so it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. But it does seem like there's a whole lot of piling on, and I suspect it has a lot to do with "my favorite can't win if he's there." And honestly, I don't think Ilis's invincible, but somebody's going to have to skate a lot better than they have to beat him.

 

[Mathman]

And honestly, I don't think Ilia's invincible, but somebody's going to have to skate a lot better than they have to beat him.

 

[Arigato]

I used to like him but after a while his Scottish accent starts to grate. And I can't stand the way he keeps repeating the same phrases 'showcase' and 'Olympic cycle'. And informing us what the skater is currently studying and if their grandparents are in the audience. NOT RELEVANT!

Give me Chris any day. Ideally, Chris with Simon Reed, they were a perfect combination.

Picture two different male skaters, each having a disastrous skate. Chris Howarth bent over backwards extending sympathy for the guy, repeatedly, especially when the guy started to cry. The other skater's disaster had Mark commenting, "Even his own coaches can't look and turned away." It came across like one of those tabloid headlines: SKATER'S COACHES TURN THEIR BACKS ON HIM, IS THE LOVE FEST OVER?

For crying out loud.

By the way, is the voice who comments first Simon Reed?

 

[frompolandwithlove]

Chris doesn't know how to hype, but Malinin is the headliner of the men's program, two times World Champion, so yes, it is perfectly normal that he is mentioned more often than the others, building up to his skating in a Grand Prix stage he is participating.

Stats, scores, titles and everything else you mentioned in your post are perfectly normal, reasonable things for commentators to say. That's what we want/need to hear as viewers, especially casual, uneducated in the topic viewers. It would be perfect if commentators could stick to that type of comments - professional and mostly objective.

 

[viennaskater]

Picture two different male skaters, each having a disastrous skate. Chris Howarth bent over backwards extending sympathy for the guy, repeatedly, especially when the guy started to cry. The other skater's disaster had Mark commenting, "Even his own coaches can't look and turned away." It came across like one of those tabloid headlines: SKATER'S COACHES TURN THEIR BACKS ON HIM, IS THE LOVE FEST OVER?

For crying out loud.

What is the point you are making here? And are you talking about actual skaters or hypothetical skaters?

 

[lariko]

Stats, scores, titles and everything else you mentioned in your post are perfectly normal, reasonable things for commentators to say. That's what we want/need to hear as viewers, especially casual, uneducated in the topic viewers. It would be perfect if commentators could stick to that type of comments - professional and mostly objective.

They are humans, and they can have subjective opinions. Objective opinion is also not necessarily the opinion you, personally, agree with.

It is relatively widely accepted outside the really hard-core antiMals that Malinin significantly improved two of the three components, while he still doesn't have the skating skill of Kagiyama. However, that's said, his skating skill is within the high average range for the elite level so he doesn't stand out.

With his technical elements -- including spins and both sequences -- being high level and two of three components being champion quality, he is a balanced skater. His speed is good, his transitions in and out of elements are present, his jumps are integrated into programs far better with entrance and exit that doesn't disturb the viewing, the programs themselves are well distributed around the rink, his step and choreo sequences are complex with interesting finds and traditional stuff, including one of the best Ina Bauers in current male skaters. He changes directions well, uses upper body and performs movements freely in all of XYZ. He is at the moment the only one who fluidly commands the lateral XY when he does his raspberry. While one might not like his musical choices, he demonstrated additional work and research in movie and gaming industry to provide input into choreography and participated in the arrangement of his programs (which usually calls for praise for every skater who had done it, including Juniors).

This all is factually objectively correct, even though Malinin doesn't glide with super-deep edges. No gliding doesn't mean he is 'only a jumper' as a figure skater. If anything, people who focus only on edges to the extreme are calling for creation of unbalanced skaters. Most skaters lack in more areas than Malinin does if you'd make a spider plot and don't do it with extreme prejudice.

 

[Mathman]

I guess I am just easy to please. All a commentator has to do is follow the 3+1 rule. Say three nice things about each skater's performance, and one thing that he can improve on.

 

[Arigato]

What is the point you are making here? And are you talking about actual skaters or hypothetical skaters?

It's actual skaters. I was pointing out the differences between Chris and Mark each witnessing a male skater have a disastrous skate.

 

[Arigato]

Well, I guess that's the problem for me - can we really create a hero artificially by hyping one skater so out of proportions (and sacrificing the rest of the bunch in the process)? I don't think so??? If winning everything everywhere is not doing the trick by itself, then maybe, just maybe, he is not the hero they need - at least not yet. You can't gaslight an entire audience into believing they are witnessing the most complete skater that ever graced the earth, they have to recognize it themselves and only then the love and admiration will follow. I think that, frankly, praising him for something he is not is only polarizing and is doing him more harm than good in the long run.

Tell that to NBC sports. Trust me, one of the most beloved athletes isn't just beloved in his own sport, which is tennis, but also by athletes in other sports as well. And you don't reach that level of love, respect, and admiration by self-appointing yourself a "god."

 

[Mathman]

To me, the bottom line is still what Tonto K said. If you want to beat Malinin, you have to beat him. Whining on the Internet won't do it.

 

[gsk8]

And you don't reach that level of love, respect, and admiration by self-appointing yourself a "god."

Not "god", but "quad god."

For goodness sakes, he created that username/acct when he was 13. And I think he has more than earned the right to use it.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I think the Chinese team never competed internationally with the backflip. I think that's the kicker. I remember the post was made by @Jumping_Bean so maybe that information can be confirmed or not.

Yes, they indeed never competed internationally, and, to my knowledge, only domestically for one single season. Mostly because they weren't really skaters, but acrobats who sometimes performed on ice and did skating as a hobby. They did lots of cool stuff in their programs - Most of it illegal and without a value, like the assisted backflip, a hand-to-hand lift with both having fully extended arms, and a lift with her only holding on to his head.

 

[4everchan]

Yes, they indeed never competed internationally, and, to my knowledge, only domestically for one single season. Mostly because they weren't really skaters, but acrobats who sometimes performed on ice and did skating as a hobby. They did lots of cool stuff in their programs - Most of it illegal and without a value, like the assisted backflip, a hand-to-hand lift with both having fully extended arms, and a lift with her only holding on to his head.

Could they jump?