2024-25 Senior Grand Prix Final Men's Free Skate

[cailuj365]

I love unusual or bizarre costumes, Since I am a huge Anthony Paradis fan, Ilia's "blood" in the previous costume was mild by comparison.

His SP top was very Anthony Paradis with the shoulder cut out! I do love that Ilia is not afraid of a good amount of sparkle.

Ilia's music choices are one of the best things about him, so different than what anyone else is currently doing or what has been done. I actually thought he should have turned his GPF Billie Eilish gala into his SP this year when he was skating it over the summer. It had some interesting additions today. I've never seen him do a layback spin.

Very hard to beat someone though when they are getting 10's for PCS like in the short.

No, it's just hard to beat someone when you fall in the SP, pop in the LP, do a 3-2 combo, and have generally less difficult elements overall compared to someone who ONLY does quads and has the whole set. Like that's just logic and math. I thought the q's for Ilia's 4Lz in the SP and 4A in the LP were very strict, and I would not have given them. The other q's and < calls were fair, and it's a shortcoming of Ilia's that he should work on. The PCS 10s are completely out of touch with reality, but I also think the 4A base value should be worth 3 more points.

Personally, I don't think q calls should exist at all in figure skating. I'm not talking about Ilia here, but just in general. It makes no sense when judges give a jump +3 GOE in real time only to have to reduce it later, because they clearly otherwise really loved the jump. It gives the q too much weight over the rest of the components of a great jump -- height, flow out, speed, air position, entry, exit -- saying that all of those get essentially negated when one lands exactly a 0.125 revolution short that even the judges have trouble seeing in real time. It also creates discordance between audience/viewer reaction and the final score, and it renders the real-time TES/GOE display tracker somewhat useless. I'm totally fine with giving visible URs their GOE reduction, and then downgrades should get additional BV reduction but not necessarily down to the previous revolution.

 

[cailuj365]

Of course, that's why I mentioned that in addition to all the political push Illia beneficiates from, as an "extra help", it so happens that his theoretical competitors simultaneously underperform. Sadly, I do believe that even if they were to have perfect skates, the political push would still prevail And honestly, if skater X has to skate lights out and Illia has to fall 5 times just so skater X has a remote chance of winning an event, well I think that kind of actually proves the point. I don't know how truly invested you're in Yuma's result at Worlds, but I would focus my hopes in a silver medal for him, which is still not a given but at least somewhat realistic (please don't take this to be rude, I hesitated to write it as of course whatever hopes you have are up to you, it's just that I have been there for other skaters and it has been hard seeing that hopes never materialized, so I rather be realistic now )

I don't think Ilia would prevail just because of the political push. If it's a perfect skate, then it would be the TES that gives him the win.

I get political push in figure skating. My feeling is that there is always a push to have an American or Russian champion with big jumps (if one is available). Ilia, an American with roots to Russia and with the biggest jumps and tricks of them all, looks like the obvious winner before he even gets on the ice, especially since Russia is no longer in the international game. However, people have to deliver, and a lot of this is timing, momentum, and what happens on the day. There was an article in The New York Times today about how Ilia is the current favorite, but the fact that the OG are still >1 year away works against him as others try to chip away at him.

I am not invested in Yuma, but I want him to do well, because he is incredibly talented, he's beautiful to watch, and he is no technical slouch (usually). I said for Yuma's sake, because if he doesn't have a chance of winning one day over Ilia, then why are we even here, why is he even here? Maybe you should tell him this, that he will never win for the next few years, no matter what he does, no matter what Ilia does. It's absolutely not true. And again, he only lost by 10 points to a guy who attempted 7 quads, who got sent a message that he's a chronic under-rotator, and who cannot seem to get above 105 in the SP even with a 4F and backloaded 4Lz combo. If anything, if I were Yuma, I'd come away from this competition even MORE encouraged that that I can compete and one day win over Ilia, that even when I did not bring my best and he tried to throw the kitchen sink, I beat him in the FS and was still close.


Anyway, random thoughts on the rest of the actual competition.
- All of the men, except for Grassl, had at least one major error so there wasn't a slam dunk performance.
- Ilia's music - I suppose the "hiding your daughters" line was too risque and disturbing. Despite some struggles, he still got a partial standing ovation, maybe the only of the night, for his trailblazing effort.
- Yuma's step sequence was outstanding. Maybe the best I've seen from him this year, so I don't understand why it received a Lvl 2. But if we're gonna be strict with q's and <s, then we can give his 4F a q as well, not the best I've seen from him. The ending spins and the final clap with the ending position are brilliant.
- I really love Shun's LP music, and this was miles better in terms of performance than in China. Great job.
- Grassl should be pleased with his FS. Yes, he finally got hit with the two URs, but otherwise, it was clean. He's been quite consistent this first half of the year. His posture is poor as always, but it's what we come to expect.
- Shaidorov - bravo for also being a technical trailblazer. The program isn't great though. He's had issues with his spins for years, so he really needs to work on those. Also got dinged with < calls, the 3A one looked more like a q, but with all these reductions from otherwise what looks like a clean skate save the fall, you get the boos from the audience. There has to be a happy medium!
- Aymoz - love him no matter what. Not his best, but he is a gem. As long as he doesn't give up, I'm fine with however he skates.

 

[msteach3]

Probably bc he wanted to escape his team? He feels they aren't acting in his best interest and probably wants to be remembered as oustanding skater, not just the guy who jumped 4A. He is smart guy and knows what his weaknes is.

How do you know this? Do you know him personally? Do you know his agent, family, friends? This sounds like complete conjecture to me.

 

[Magill]

With ISU advertising Ilia Malinin on its official social media channels as displaying "unmatched artistry" (literal quote, repeated in many posts, so obviously it is an approved copy), it is difficult not to notice the aggressive PR creating a completely false image of him as a skater. I literally burst out laughing when I saw it, and I bet I was not the only one, as this is everything Ilia Malinin is not.
Add a 10 in PCS here and there, and you do not need any conspiracy theorist, it is all ISU-own-making

 

[Skating91]

With ISU advertising Ilia Malinin on its official social media channels as displaying "unmatched artistry" (literal quote, repeated in many posts, so obviously it is an approved copy), it is difficult not to notice the aggressive PR creating a completely false image of him as a skater. I literally burst out laughing when I saw it, and I bet I was not the only one, as this is everything Ilia Malinin is not.
Add a 10 in PCS here and there, and you do not need any conspiracy theorist, it is all ISU-own-making

I love Ilia and was defending him when everyone was hating on him, but it's gone so far the other direction now giving him 10's for the SP, the over the top gushing from Mark and Ted for a mistake riddled performance (while nit picking a couple other skaters).

They did this as well for a couple of women in recent years from regions of the world that are very helpful to them from a marketing perspective, the tech panel and officials got caught up in all this over the top PR as they are simply humans with emotions who believe the hype and probably want to be invited back, so increase the scores in unison when nothing has really changed. Those skaters then become complacent, now they can barely jump a clean combo and have injury problems.

Ilia has had the same push and he's become complacent he had problems on almost every jumping element. Long term it is bad for skaters when the scores no longer match reality.

 

[amanda b]

Frankly, I listed the tech panel in my top 3 favs list for the whole GP event. They didn't miss a hair. This sport should be so lucky to have them at every ISU event.

This event seemed much more fairly scored than other ISU events in the past - far less resting on reputation or family connections.

 

[amanda b]

This event seemed much more fairly scored than other ISU events in the past - far less resting on reputation or family connections.

Though can hardly bear to watch Ilia - so perhaps its not fairly scored!

 

[Karoltyna]

How do you know this? Do you know him personally? Do you know his agent, family, friends? This sounds like complete conjecture to me.

He put his name on PGE Cup - event that took place exactly the same time as a show his agent said Ilia will participate. When a person tries to do something agains their agent's plans, it means there is a power struggle going on - from my many years of experience in media and entertainment it wasn't Ilia forgetting the date or something like this. Other possibility is that ISU messed - I admitt, it's quite plausible.

 

[Kris135]

He put his name on PGE Cup - event that took place exactly the same time as a show his agent said Ilia will participate. When a person tries to do something agains their agent's plans, it means there is a power struggle going on - from my many years of experience in media and entertainment it wasn't Ilia forgetting the date or something like this. Other possibility is that ISU messed - I admitt, it's quite plausible.

I honestly think it was Ilia trying to tell Ari that he wanted to work on his skating not do a show that he cooked up in the first week of November. Ilia is not stupid, he was running behind on get his programs ready all season because of all the shows that he had done during the summer. I really think only at Lombardia that Ilia had even done full run thoughts of his long programs. It still wasn't polished during the GP's so think Ilia had planned to do that for the month of November in California so it would become ready for the GPF. Ari decided since it looked like Ilia had a gap that he would throw him into show that he was planning. Ilia tried to get out of this show by saying he would compete in Europe because at least he find some way to practice his skating before GPF. It did not happen and the mess at the GPF was the result. I really think that every skating event that is not related to repeating as World Champion need to be cut or moved to after the season is over. I really that someone on his team needs to rein in Ari and stop him from killing Ilia. He needs to prepare for Nationals and Worlds not do nearly a dozen of ice shows though out the US and even Europe over the next few months. Ilia is young and thinks he can do it all but he is human and he needs to have enough time to train so he will be ready to defend his title.

 

[Karoltyna]

I honestly think it was Ilia trying to tell Ari that he wanted to work on his skating not do a show that he cooked up in the first week of November. Ilia is not stupid, he was running behind on get his programs ready all season because of all the shows that he had done during the summer. I really think only at Lombardia that Ilia had even done full run thoughts of his long programs. It still wasn't polished during the GP's so think Ilia had planned to do that for the month of November in California so it would become ready for the GPF. Ari decided since it looked like Ilia had a gap that he would throw him into show that he was planning. Ilia tried to get out of this show by saying he would compete in Europe because at least he find some way to practice his skating before GPF. It did not happen and the mess at the GPF was the result. I really think that every skating event that is not related to repeating as World Champion need to be cut or moved to after the season is over. I really that someone on his team needs to rein in Ari and stop him from killing Ilia. He needs to prepare for Nationals and Worlds not do nearly a dozen of ice shows though out the US and even Europe over the next few months. Ilia is young and thinks he can do it all but he is human and he needs to have enough time to train so he will be ready to defend his title.

My thoughts exactly. How can he improve when he isn't working on his programs? And now Ari went to the media blabbing some nonsense that judges harmed Ilia and Jason Brown is "talented in his own way". No, he is the one who harms the boy.

 

[Arigato]

My thoughts exactly. How can he improve when he isn't working on his programs? And now Ari went to the media blabbing some nonsense that judges harmed Ilia and Jason Brown is "talented in his own way". No, he is the one who harms the boy.

What is Ari's last name? If I recall, when the ISU met for all the votes and I was watching the whole thing live, I was asking who the guy was in the room acting in a particularly obnoxious way - like a used car salesman.

 

[Karoltyna]

What is Ari's last name? If I recall, when the ISU met for all the votes and I was watching the whole thing live, I was asking who the guy was in the room acting in a particularly obnoxious way - like a used car salesman.

Zakarian - yep, that was the guy.

 

[lariko]

Okay, the complaint about the lyrics of the emo vampire song being too vile takes the cake...peeps sit through decades of Roxanne being used million times lol. Skaters are allowed to skate antiheroes and even (gasp) villains. I mean, I saw people on this very forum saying it would be nice to see darker characters. It reminds me insane people on instagram who trash actors who play villains in the shows for things their characters do on screen. Newsflash: It's not real! Ilia Malinin doesn't turn into a bat as the last ray of sunshine fades away and haunts the streets to seduce innocent maidens with his pale and tragic gorgeousness, luring them into eternity of sin and depravity.

 

[el henry]

My thoughts exactly. How can he improve when he isn't working on his programs? And now Ari went to the media blabbing some nonsense that judges harmed Ilia and Jason Brown is "talented in his own way". No, he is the one who harms the boy.

What is this nonsense?

I have never been a fan of Ari Z. and now Jason is out there catching strays? What did Jason have to do with GPF scoring?

What a tool

 

[Kris135]

My thoughts exactly. How can he improve when he isn't working on his programs? And now Ari went to the media blabbing some nonsense that judges harmed Ilia and Jason Brown is "talented in his own way". No, he is the one who harms the boy.

I.am really at the point where someone should ask Ilia what he wants. In regards to what events he wants to do and how much he wants to take on. I honestly think Raf should go to Virginia after Christmas and take Ilia back with him and get Ari as far away from Ilia as he can and sit down with with him and his parents with a Calendar for the next 14 months all the way to the 2026 Olympics and plan the way forward. First put the essential competitions like his GP's, GPF,, Nationals, World Championships, Olympics, then put the nice to have competitions like Challengers, 4CC's and other competitions that may come up. Then every other skating event like shows and other things like that and truly look and start cutting them down to manageable level that he able to take on and still manage to do all of the preparation that is needed for his competitive programs this year and next year. Then nothing else can be put on the Calendar unless Ilia and all coaches agree to it and it is not going affect his preparation time for his skating. Then hand it back to Ari and let him handle the cancellations and rescheduling of the events that Ilia and his tean has rejected. Ari doesn't like then he can quit. I am tired of watching one the greatest skater I have ever seen being run into the ground by an agent that does not have his best interests at heart and only wants to make money off of him. Ilia deserves so much better than this and should be able to have his career and stay sane at the same time. I do not think that is too much to as

 

[Isk]

Just dropping that I was mesmerised by Shun. Fall, no fall - the program is SPLENDID and Shun shines in it so beautifully.

I wouldn't call the program splendid. Skills are there, transitions are there, technique is there except imperfections on the spins, some pretty music, but there is no program. For the first 40 seconds, the music is delicate piano key stroking with pauses, but Shun just runs around the rink at the same fast pace circling it three times, never slowing down, never minding the music pauses, and does 2 jumping passes. Then there is a bit of a crescendo, he could use it to build up some drama, some tension, but he just keeps going, never minds it. Then there are a couple of minutes in about the same tempo. The culmination of the music is somewhere in the second half of the step sequence, then it should release, and this should be reflected in the choreo, but it's not. The release is cut out from the music, there is a very hearable glue-together before the final spin. He starts and ends his elements mid-music phrases, and music phrases start and end mid-elements, so there is very little minding of the music phrasing in choreo phrasing, and not much expression of the few accents that this monotonous musics has. So, no, this program is not great. The skater is great, but the program is not.

 

[Isk]

Okay, the complaint about the lyrics of the emo vampire song being too vile takes the cake...peeps sit through decades of Roxanne being used million times lol. Skaters are allowed to skate antiheroes and even (gasp) villains. I mean, I saw people on this very forum saying it would be nice to see darker characters. It reminds me insane people on instagram who trash actors who play villains in the shows for things their characters do on screen. Newsflash: It's not real! Ilia Malinin doesn't turn into a bat as the last ray of sunshine fades away and haunts the streets to seduce innocent maidens with his pale and tragic gorgeousness, luring them into eternity of sin and depravity.

Never thought much of Roxanne or the movie it comes from, that's a pretty low bar. On a larger scale, skaters are supposed to interpret music and not heroes: the best kind of programs are the ones in which you don't need a libretto/program. I sometimes find lyrics distracting, but I think most people don't mind them. In theory, lyrics can bring a lot of opportunities, in practice, the first few flights of an average competition (or the Sr. ladies event at the Challenge) turn into a discotheque with 20 slow dances in a row. On a yet larger scale, when an average skater will skate to her favourite pop-song anyway, choreographers loose interest in digging deeper into music.

 

[cailuj365]

I wouldn't call the program splendid. Skills are there, transitions are there, technique is there except imperfections on the spins, some pretty music, but there is no program. For the first 40 seconds, the music is delicate piano key stroking with pauses, but Shun just runs around the rink at the same fast pace circling it three times, never slowing down, never minding the music pauses, and does 2 jumping passes. Then there is a bit of a crescendo, he could use it to build up some drama, some tension, but he just keeps going, never minds it. Then there are a couple of minutes in about the same tempo. The culmination of the music is somewhere in the second half of the step sequence, then it should release, and this should be reflected in the choreo, but it's not. The release is cut out from the music, there is a very hearable glue-together before the final spin. He starts and ends his elements mid-music phrases, and music phrases start and end mid-elements, so there is very little minding of the music phrasing in choreo phrasing, and not much expression of the few accents that this monotonous musics has. So, no, this program is not great. The skater is great, but the program is not.

As someone who loves Shun's FS music and have added it to my Spotify playlist, I also recognize that the cut of it actually does not translate to a great skating program. The climax is in the step sequence, but the music is almost too fast for him to really bring out the emotion and for it to be satisfying for the audience. He's stuck trying to do complex steps instead of highlighting the highs and lows of the music, as you say. I do think he did a much better job at GPF compared to COC, where it really felt kind of boring.

Okay, the complaint about the lyrics of the emo vampire song being too vile takes the cake...peeps sit through decades of Roxanne being used million times lol.

I don't know what actually made him change it. He got rid of the "Mothers better lock your doors and hide your daughters" line, but the "I can lure any woman that I want to in my bed with me. Whiskey seems to be my holy water" lines are very much intact.

 

[Kris135]

As someone who loves Shun's FS music and have added it to my Spotify playlist, I also recognize that the cut of it actually does not translate to a great skating program. The climax is in the step sequence, but the music is almost too fast for him to really bring out the emotion and for it to be satisfying for the audience. He's stuck trying to do complex steps instead of highlighting the highs and lows of the music, as you say. I do think he did a much better job at GPF compared to COC, where it really felt kind of boring.




I don't know what actually made him change it. He got rid of the "Mothers better lock your doors and hide your daughters" line, but the "I can lure any woman that I want to in my bed with me. Whiskey seems to be my holy water" lines are very much intact.

We also have the line that he insane and when he gets so cold now. Well on ice that is partly true but is something to state out loud

 

[museksk8r]

I’ve watched Ilia’s FS twice and the only rotation issue that I didn’t catch in real time was the 4Axel. I do think the tech panel was strict on calling that jump as landed with a q. Otherwise, I think the rotation calls on his jumps and on the other skaters’ jumps were fair in this event. The truth is that Ilia was tight in the FS here; it played out like one of his Nationals FS where he does tend to be sloppier. Unfortunately, Kagiyama did not capitalize on Ilia’s errors to seize the moment here. The tech panel justly did their job, but Ilia still came away with the gold medal at the most prestigious event of this season so far. The wuzrobbed crying from those like Ari really come across as petty and this sore/sour winner mentality is not a good look at all. Ilia and his camp should be thanking their lucky stars that the judges haven’t been burying him in the PCS scoring because they certainly have the right to do so. Let it fully sink in that Malinin is receiving 10s and high 9s in PCS and then realize how absolutely ridiculous anyone is for claiming that the ISU is robbing him of anything.