ISU to allow "neutral" skaters from RUS/BLR to compete at 2026 Olympics

[Mathman]

The wording of this announcement is quite a slap in the face to Russian athletes and the Russian figure skating establishment. I winder if there is any feeling in Russia of "ISU, go to hell and take the IOC with you"?

The other question that occurred to me is this. If only one Russian woman is allowed to compete, will the #2 Russian woman rush to apply for Belarus citizenship? Could Aldelina Petrosian and Alina Gorbacheva end up the gold and silver medalists in Milano?

 

[Mathematician]

The wording of this announcement is quite a slap in the face to Russian athletes and the Russian figure skating establishment. I winder if there is any feeling in Russia of "ISU, go to hell and take the IOC with you"?

Sort of. But honestly it seems mostly people are just very happy they get a chance. For example Trankoff said he almost cried from joy when he saw it. There doesnt seem to be any likelihood of Russia just ignoring the opportunity, like some theorize; telling the IOC to "go to hell" as you put it. The problem with RG for instance was that the qualifiers had their own bans on Russia so the path was basically impossible, even though the IOC allowed them. Russia didnt make some power move totally ignoring the entire Olympics cause they felt too good or subverted somehow.

I actually personally dont see this as a slap in the face. Them allowing someone like Adeliia in, even with a single spot, it quite courteous. Russian fans should be very happy. Allowing B/K as well makes the likelihood of at least one gold enormous, and two golds also highly likely. Russians expecting total allowance for more podium sweeps while they're still an aggressing nation would be sort of ludicrous.

If Eteri skaters are actually banned though by association to Valieva (which I really, really doubt), then there would probably be mostly a negative disposition. Its possible even in that case Russia would actually say the IOC can "go to hell" and ignore the event. Even if some athletes would still have a good chance at gold, like Gorbacheva or Frolova. It would be too high of a risk for them to lose, and give internationals nominal bragging rights; "hey, you guys sent the athlete, and they lost!". It would be more effective to just keep the aura of a separates "superior" (in some disciplines) league.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

They send Adelia, M/G. I don't think Russia will medal in anything else anyway.

S/B won't be eligible since they went to a rally, Mark went to a rally as well I think.

Semenenko's failure yesterday is massively costly now. Men's will be intense tomorrow.

There is still the GP final mid-February to finalise selection.

I’m don’t think the event S/B were at was a rally but a general event that lots of athletes were at? It will be interesting to see how the criteria is applied.

 

[Karoltyna]

And I think what they mean is a Carolina Kostner situation whereby she was living with a boyfriend under suspension.

Carolina was accused to actively help him conceal his whereabouts from the controllers...

 

[AlexBreeze]

The other question that occurred to me is this. If only one Russian woman is allowed to compete, will the #2 Russian woman rush to apply for Belarus citizenship?

The citizenship must be obtained before 2022, it's written in the regulations.

 

[Mathematician]

The citizenship must be obtained before 2022, it's written in the regulations.

Is that for all nations on just neutral participants? So transfers for next year arent of any interest then after all?

 

[AlexBreeze]

Is that for all nations on just neutral participants? So transfers for next year arent of any interest then after all?

For just neutrals.

 

[Mathematician]

For just neutrals.

So Zhilina is still of interest? She turns 17 in may of 2025. I heard they're looking at Azerbaijan. Anyone else?

Or wait, is she screwed because of the AOP connection? Or thats also just for neutrals I suppose, right? Since Samodelkina and Titova are fine.

 

[AlexBreeze]

I heard they're looking at Azerbaijan.

I highly doubts it's true. They didn't take a girl who is actually Azerbaijani.

 

[Mathematician]

I highly doubts it's true. They didn't take a girl who is actually Azerbaijani.

Which girl? I imagine they'd be more interested in a potential Olympic gold plus Plushenko's massive connections. I know AZJ isnt very nice with Russians though. What about Georgia? Or some other country? Just in general, what do you think are the chances of Zhilina in 2026?

 

[Jumping_Bean]

@AlexBreeze

The prohibition is against having an association while the skater is serving their suspension so since late January 2024 if you're talking about Valieva. None of these skaters have had anything to do with her since her suspension, none of the coaches.

They are fine.

Before January 2024 she wasn't serving a suspension. CAS themselves overturned the RUSADA interim suspension placed on Valieva at the Olympics.

Let's even ignore the wording of the rule itself.

Are the ISU and IOC going to allow Egadze go to the Olympics despite his association with Valieva at some point in the past, Grassl was associated with Valieva, but not allow Petrosian go to the Olympics because of her association with Valieva at some point in the past?

If it was any person who has served a period of ineligibility you would be correct, but it is whether there has been an association while that person is serving their suspension.

If this interpretation was correct, the question would however have to be why would they be specifically including and emphasizing a rule that any athlete and coach in any sport from any country already has to follow anyway?

The other points listed in this document are either rules that would only apply to neutral athletes or explaining additional supervisory measurements, but they don't state rules the athletes are already expected to follow from what I can tell.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Which girl?

Agaeva

What about Georgia?

I think they are fine with their team.

Just in general, what do you think are the chances of Zhilina in 2026?

 

[Mathematician]

If this interpretation was correct, the question would however have to be why would they be specifically including and emphasizing a rule that any athlete and coach in any sport from any country already has to follow anyway?

The other points listed in this document are either rules that would only apply to neutral athletes or explaining additional supervisory measurements, but they don't state rules the athletes are already expected to follow from what I can tell.

Thats a good point but to me it still doesnt supersede the legal understanding.

If Eteri has an infraction, you have to provide an instance. I know of zero instances in which Eteri coached an actively suspended skater. Its basically implying the accused committed a crime in the future. It just doesnt hold up. Unless, of course, you could evidence that Eteri herself, or the staff, were directly responsible for what happened in 2021.

It's not that I think ISU wouldn't do such a thing, its just if they did, I cant imagine they wouldn't use more clear legal language. I cant imagine a paid lawyer would write it out that way. Especially hired by such an organization. It would be abysmal work and totally incomprehensible. The only explanation would literally be that they wanted to mess with all Russians just for fun, which is not likely.

Basically, it seems clear: Eteri coached Kamila Valieva, she never coached a suspended athlete, unless she supersedes the constraints of time.

 

[lariko]

For the sake of just one entry per discipline who can't be assciated with Tutberidze, TSKA or Plushenko's teams since 2022 (if you interpret conditions to the letter as many people absolutely would) without a path forward for juniors to enter JGP, and for challengers/GP entries for seniors, with an athlete having to qualify in mid-September and not because able to substitute until Feb even in case of injury (because there is no way to requalify stated in the documents) this deal is not offered in good faith and doesn't have interests of athletes in mind.

If you factor in all the limitations, the most likely comp is Gorbacheva, Gumennik, Khabibulina/Knyazhuk and Khudaberdieva/Bazin

 

[Skating91]

If this interpretation was correct, the question would however have to be why would they be specifically including and emphasizing a rule that any athlete and coach in any sport from any country already has to follow anyway?

The other points listed in this document are either rules that would only apply to neutral athletes or explaining additional supervisory measurements, but they don't state rules the athletes are already expected to follow from what I can tell.

4d is talking about the Focused Olympic Anti-Doping Program of the ISU which will be implemented by the ITA. The ITA seems to be taking over procedures that would normally be handled by RUSADA, It also mentions the ITA has discretion for targeted testing, close monitoring the biological passport, thorough investigations, athletes have to fully comply with requests contact details of support personnel, etc. This is all stuff RUSADA or the doping agencies do, they are just reiterating that the ITA is handling this. It's more to reassure everyone I think.

I could be wrong and look stupid. Wouldn't be the first time, but 99.9% sure they are simply reiterating that the skaters/coaches who take part will have had no involvement with a skater under suspension.

 

[Couch Expert]

I do think the ISU want a Russian skater especially in women's they love a little controversy at every Olympics. I think this was in response to the dismal GP series and GP final, where they struggled to attract attention via the skating so they will go back to the old fashioned way of doing it -- stirring up controversy.

No, I don't think it's like that. ISU/IOC wants to get formal status of legitimacy for Olympic medals. They are perfectly aware that what they are doing is violation of olympic codex (stating independence from politics) and pure undisguised discrimination based on nationality. Therefore public opinion doubting fairness of such medals without participation of one of the strongest players in winter sport is likely - threating to hit IOC reputation even more (let's pretend there is still some margin of reputation remained). So they decided to adress this issue by allowing Russian skaters - but in the most humiliating way possible - making sure they couldn't send their strongest athletes or hoping they would refuse to participate at all. In the latter case they could lift any blame from themselves stating they did provide chance to participate - so it's not their fault.

because of the ISU being corrupted like hell

I wouldn't call it exactly corruption. It's more like full vassalage to american/european financial institutions and interests of its ruling class.

 

[VickB]

Adeliia Petrosian I believe is a neutral athlete of Armenian heritage and did amazing tribute to Anoush opera of Armenian culture in figure skating, she should be allowed to represent neutral althetes for 2026 Olympics.

 

[Skating91]

Thats a good point but to me it still doesnt supersede the legal understanding.

If Eteri has an infraction, you have to provide an instance. I know of zero instances in which Eteri coached an actively suspended skater. Its basically implying the accused committed a crime in the future. It just doesnt hold up. Unless, of course, you could evidence that Eteri herself, or the staff, were directly responsible for what happened in 2021.

It's not that I think ISU wouldn't do such a thing, its just if they did, I cant imagine they wouldn't use more clear legal language. I cant imagine a paid lawyer would write it out that way. Especially hired by such an organization. It would be abysmal work and totally incomprehensible. The only explanation would literally be that they wanted to mess with all Russians just for fun, which is not likely.

Basically, it seems clear: Eteri coached Kamila Valieva, she never coached a suspended athlete, unless she supersedes the constraints of time.

It does say the ISU has the discretion to exclude people in the athlete's support personnel, so they could simply exclude Eteri from coaching or appearing with Adelia, but then you would have the absurd situation of her sitting with Egadze, or sitting with M/B, but expressly forbidden with sitting with Adelia

Not that it matters Eteri hasn't appeared all season and she has obliterated the competition.

 

[Couch Expert]

I actually personally dont see this as a slap in the face. Them allowing someone like Adeliia in, even with a single spot, it quite courteous. Russian fans should be very happy.

But it is slap in the face. We all know how PCS/GOE judging works in figure skating. To have decent scores there - a skater should gradually build their reputation throughout the season - or even several seasons. It's especially important for new skaters. No matter how good one can skate - judges are not going to give them high scores if they are not familiar with them. And I am not even talking here about very likely bias from nonrussian judges who will have interests of their skaters on the first place anyway. If only one tournament will be allowed for Russians before Olympic Games - judges are going to bury them - and ISU knows this.

 

[Mathematician]

No, I don't think it's like that. ISU/IOC wants to get formal status of legitimacy for Olympic medals. They are perfectly aware that what they are doing is violation of olympic codex (stating independence from politics) and pure undisguised discrimination based on nationality. Therefore public opinion doubting fairness of such medals without participation of one of the strongest players in winter sport is likely - threating to hit IOC reputation even more (let's pretend there is still some margin of reputation remained).

I kind of have a similar thesis. Olympics have survived recently only as a half-hearted tradition as opposed to anything serious. The nominal viewership is ostensively maintained but the actual attention and energy is exponentially waning. I wonder if the 2030 games will garner any interest whatsoever. I think we see the Olympics borderline fully pass away in this generation, at least extrapolating current observation. Last year's Olympics literally opened in a debacle it was kind of the last straw for probably half the viewership. People see it now as a political expose as with most things conducted through international government cooperation, especially with western-centric leanings as you mention. None of my acquaintances mentioned anything about the last Olympics. Not even the controversial opening ceremony. Literally nobody cared either way. People ate up the media controversy for a few days (which was probably contrived anyways, to get the ball rolling as much as possible - a last dying attempt for some semblance of relevancy) and that was genuinely the commercial peak of the entire games. I'm the only one in my circle who even knew anything about the games and it was thanks to RG. Even with wrestling it seems there was no hype. The World Wrestling Championship seemed to garner more interest than the Olympics. I didnt even watch wrestling or remember who won.

So they decided to adress this issue by allowing Russian skaters - but in the most humiliating way possible - making sure they couldn't send their strongest athletes or hoping they would refuse to participate at all.

I think the strongest will be allowed, or you are correct that Russia will just duck the event, and I think that'll be terrible for the IOC. I dont think they win in that exchange. RG was seriously lame without Russia. The quality of performance was good (the Ukranian girl was awesome, the Italian bronze too), which makes it even worse, that no matter how much they tried to artificially manipulate the perception, natural atmosphere was impossible to generate, just due to lack of national aura. There was no passion in the community, comments, crowd; nothing. Its an inescapable subconscious effect no matter how much people try to feign indifference to national absences or excitement for the specially selected contestants. Varfolomeev saved it but there was still fan controversy over her nationality and that pretty much turned into the event's focal point. After those initial scuffles, any memory or respect of athlete achievement vanished. The Olympics do not hold memory anymore. Frankly even in more respectable but recent times, in the most legitimate, complete and internationally accepted scenarios, an athlete hoped to be remembered and venerated for a decade maximum. Yuna was a mega mega star and sizzled for a good 12 years or so. Then more recently it was more like a couple years. Now maybe a few months if you're lucky, seriously... Varfolomeev's victory was immediately disregarded by the community. Not on purpose in any sort of protest, not by Russians, but by the entire community, it was just an inescapable effect. No energy in, no energy out.

I wouldn't call it exactly corruption. It's more like full vassalage to american/european financial institutions and interests of its ruling class.

Thats one way to put it. Considering certain highly consequential, actively contentious international affairs, and the way certain comparable actions by different nations have been handled differently, and the thought-provoking discrepancy in punishment and inclusion in international cultural proceedings, I think I understand what you mean.