ISU to allow "neutral" skaters from RUS/BLR to compete at 2026 Olympics

[Mathematician]

I just watched a lot of the world aquatics.

Russians and Belarussians were admitted. A few of them, but don't be fools, some of the most talented Russian young swimmers were able to take part. Some of the posts here are implying only weaker and not established skaters would be eligible. It wasn't the case for swimming.
As a matter of fact, Neutral Athletes B (Russians) won 10 medals. 3 of these medals were even won in relays.

So, of course, world aquatics (formerly FINA) is more permissive than ISU because that wasn't even Olympics nor a qualifying event but short course world championships (25 m pool).

Actually, Paris games were the most watched ever so I am not sure why some have the impression it was a huge debacle.

Les JO de Paris ont été « les plus suivis de l’histoire »

Les JO de Paris ont été « les plus suivis de l'histoire », regardés par « environ 5 milliards de personnes » à la télévision ou sur plateforme numérique.

ici.radio-canada.ca

Yes, the Olympics could be doing fine. I have no idea. However I dont see anyone invoking viewership as any evidence to the contrary. The arguments users made in this thread acknowledged viewership. The population is exponentially increasing and so is access to technology. Nominal viewership doesnt preclude a loss in energy and attention, or a loss of cultural relevancy. Hence anecdotal real world evidence can be valuable to assessing the holistic cultural success and trending of the games. I am basically sure that Gen-Z and younger really dont care about the games even half as much as the last generations. The old guard might be keeping it alive but pro sport organizations are eating up the energy and attention fast with the new kids. The Olympics can adapt for sure but assuming a stiff-necked trend anecdotally it doesnt look great.

 

[ajingmarg]

D

For the sake of just one entry per discipline who can't be assciated with Tutberidze, TSKA or Plushenko's teams since 2022 (if you interpret conditions to the letter as many people absolutely would) without a path forward for juniors to enter JGP, and for challengers/GP entries for seniors, with an athlete having to qualify in mid-September and not because able to substitute until Feb even in case of injury (because there is no way to requalify stated in the documents) this deal is not offered in good faith and doesn't have interests of athletes in mind.

If you factor in all the limitations, the most likely comp is Gorbacheva, Gumennik, Khabibulina/Knyazhuk and Khudaberdieva/Bazin

Dikizhi above Gumennik

 

[ajingmarg]

He is not officially listed as coach for Gorbacheva so a few lessons with him doesnt mean anything

Alexei Zheleznyakov the former choreographer of Tutberitze (you can see all the videos online of him working with Kamila) has been working with Alina Gorbachova this season, so excludes Gorbachova since support personnel can have no contact at any time with Valieva.

Even Yametova tried out with Eteri at one point, so there is that association with Kamila.

 

[ajingmarg]

That doesn't matter unless the event is in Ukraine.

UKR???? The entire country is in a mess what sports even would be held there?

 

[Artemisa]

First if other countries that are at war or don't respect the human rights are allow to participate why not russia... they are athletes .. for some of them sports is the only way of having a decent life ... and people are all trying to be moralists and punish them because they are born in russia... and expecting teenagers or young adults to oppose a president that can send them or there brothers or cousins to the front line ... stop being hypocrites and saying it's because of the war (so the juniors that are't allow to participate ... it's because of there political opinion).
Even if is one and with rules ... will make things more interesting..... I am more curious about who will be send .. and when were 3 spots were a bloodbath .. with one ... In may opinion:
_ I don't think people will be exclude by being with eteri ( if that would be a rule other athletes that compete aren't and she was never convicted or were a claim against her in the court of law) or going to some shows .. I think they will be exclude if they expressed themselves in favor of war or went to any pro-war event

_ Pairs: They can send almost anyone .. and probably they will win the gold ... but I think M/G won't be approve because of Galimov that is pro-war .. so probably B/K
_ Dance: They can send almost anyone that they won't win or medal ... but probably K/B
_ Women: Petrosian ... they have to send a women that is above everyone ... one that is equal won't be enough for victory ... and that leaves 2 ... well tuk would be the first but she isn't competing ... And one thing is landing a jump when a russian ladie isn't competing the other is the pression when a russian ladie is competing
_ Men: that's the funny part ( and who would believed that four years later russia would have so many options) ... because some of them have a shot to the podium ( except ilia the other ones weren't so different from the top russians) .. and most will not be excluded by the rules .. the question is always the same would they survive the pressure?

 

[4everchan]

First if other countries that are at war or don't respect the human rights are allow to participate why not russia... they are athletes .. for some of them sports is the only way of having a decent life ... and people are all trying to be moralists and punish them because they are born in russia... and expecting teenagers or young adults to oppose a president that can send them or there brothers or cousins to the front line ... stop being hypocrites and saying it's because of the war (so the juniors that are't allow to participate ... it's because of there political opinion).

I think one of the major differences is how athletes are linked to their government in Russia. With the funding. With the pride system. So then, athletes become "national heroes" for the government, instruments of propaganda. This is probably one of the factor, and you can add on a few other aggravating factors which don't need to be mentioned.

_ Pairs: They can send almost anyone .. and probably they will win the gold ... but I think M/G won't be approve because of Galimov that is pro-war .. so probably B/K
_ Dance: They can send almost anyone that they won't win or medal ... but probably K/B
_ Women: Petrosian ... they have to send a women that is above everyone ... one that is equal won't be enough for victory ... and that leaves 2 ... well tuk would be the first but she isn't competing ... And one thing is landing a jump when a russian ladie isn't competing the other is the pression when a russian ladie is competing
_ Men: that's the funny part ( and who would believed that four years later russia would have so many options) ... because some of them have a shot to the podium ( except ilia the other ones weren't so different from the top russians) .. and most will not be excluded by the rules .. the question is always the same would they survive the pressure?

Thank you for your analysis. Quite honestly, I don't follow Russian skating as much as I used to do... but here would be my two cents :

Pairs : I agree that it may be K/B sent out and they would have a high chance to win, if not gold, be on the podium. M/G are stronger but I don't think he would be eligible.

Dance : yup... no stepanova bukin for sure, and the others, top ten finish would be great.

Women : I watched the protocols from Nationals. Petrosian is way ahead of everyone for sure and ahead of international women in technical content. Clear shot at gold or at least podium indeed.

Men : this is where I disagree with you. Russian men are better than they were... but still not as good as Ilia, Yuma and Adam. I don't think just anyone sent would bring a medal. There are other contenders who can have strong showings as well like Aymoz,Cha and Britschgi or any other Japanese man. I don't think a medal for the men is something to count on. It certainly could happen but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[VickB]

First if other countries that are at war or don't respect the human rights are allow to participate why not russia... they are athletes .. for some of them sports is the only way of having a decent life ... and people are all trying to be moralists and punish them because they are born in russia... and expecting teenagers or young adults to oppose a president that can send them or there brothers or cousins to the front line ... stop being hypocrites and saying it's because of the war (so the juniors that are't allow to participate ... it's because of there political opinion).
Even if is one and with rules ... will make things more interesting..... I am more curious about who will be send .. and when were 3 spots were a bloodbath .. with one ... In may opinion:
_ I don't think people will be exclude by being with eteri ( if that would be a rule other athletes that compete aren't and she was never convicted or were a claim against her in the court of law) or going to some shows .. I think they will be exclude if they expressed themselves in favor of war or went to any pro-war event

_ Pairs: They can send almost anyone .. and probably they will win the gold ... but I think M/G won't be approve because of Galimov that is pro-war .. so probably B/K
_ Dance: They can send almost anyone that they won't win or medal ... but probably K/B
_ Women: Petrosian ... they have to send a women that is above everyone ... one that is equal won't be enough for victory ... and that leaves 2 ... well tuk would be the first but she isn't competing ... And one thing is landing a jump when a russian ladie isn't competing the other is the pression when a russian ladie is competing
_ Men: that's the funny part ( and who would believed that four years later russia would have so many options) ... because some of them have a shot to the podium ( except ilia the other ones weren't so different from the top russians) .. and most will not be excluded by the rules .. the question is always the same would they survive the pressure?

As philanthropist I do understand your point but the problem is the population of Russia supports Putin and the war and so probably the most of these athletes support the war too, so there's a big problem here and how are we going to get past this I have no idea...

As for Adeliia Petrosian, I do love her and support her, and hope to her see her in Olympics 2026. My advice to her stay away with troubles of Russia and to concentrate as a neutral althete and be respectful .

 

[Skating91]

He is not officially listed as coach for Gorbacheva so a few lessons with him doesnt mean anything

Anyone that offers any kind of advice or instruction to an athlete automatically becomes supporting personnel.

A suspended athlete is not allowed to offer kind of advice to another athlete while suspended this is classified as coaching. It's a prohibited association.

Anyone ever associated with Valieva is a prohibited association for any neutral athlete.

Gorbachova has been in violation of this rule.

That's if we interpret the rule as many have. I'm just highlighting the absurdity of their interpretation of it.

But I interpret simply as similar to the WADA code where it is prohibited to associate with any suspended athlete for the period they are suspended, not it is prohibited to have ever had any kind of association in the past at any point in their life or at the present with an athlete that is still currently serving a suspension.

The only difference is that under the WADA code it doesn't seem to explicitly exclude associating with someone socially it relates purely to a sporting context where advice might be offered. To be safe, WADA and the anti-doping organisations always say to the athletes no contact at all with any banned athlete because if any type of comment relating to sport or something construed as diet advice (maybe a comment as harmless why not try the salad) will be considered coaching and result in a ban for the athlete the comment was made towards.

Whereas here the ISU is seemingly prohibiting any association at all while someone is suspended. I guess they don't want them taking a photo with Kamila or making a comment on social media, then it will be weaponised by some of the world's media (I think we guess which media, which social media personalities will exploit it ).

 

[Skating91]

In general, my initial excitement has died down this is not something to get excited about until February 2026. As unbeatable as Adelia is now, a lot can change for a 17 year old girl in the next 14 months (growth, injuries any athlete can suffer) but they have to lock her in in two months time. Her mother is tiny like her though, so maybe she won't grow much over the next 12 months.

I suppose one advantage of being told a year in advance is that she won't have an indulgent summer break with an Olympic gold on the horizon.

Imagine if the USA locked in Levito 12 months ago, Belgium locked in Hendrickx, Korea Haein Lee, France Adam Siao.

A lot can happen.

The stupidity of this rule as well not being able to substitute her for injury after September it encourages a skater to compete carrying injuries. They might start to hide pain or injuries from coaches, feel like they can't withdraw because they've taken on this huge responsibility. A skater might also not be 100% (illness, injury, etc) going into the September qualification event, but don't want to give up the one opportunity of a lifetime so they go out there injured to lock their place in for the Olympics. Why not let both of them compete at the qualification event so that there is a backup.

The ISU made a big thing about is a medal worth someone's life, etc when changing the rules, they said it was "for the sake of protecting the physical and mental health, and emotional well-being of the skaters." How does this do anything to protect these skaters? It's like they've created some kind of Hunger Games obstacle course for a 12 month period, where basically their entire skating life comes down to one event in China. Can you imagine how shot their nerves will be at that event?

The ISU instead of trying to protect the skaters, it seems like they've created rules to create physically endanger the skaters, and to cause maximum mental and psychological distress.

 

[Skating91]

OK normally i am not here to discuss politics, but accidentally i saw this tread on X ( i am not active at all on social media, created an account just to read others for being at the actuality from time to time) :

x.com

x.com

I hope the lobyists like them can not interfere in the decision of selection.
see you next year

Mishin was support personnel for Valieva in the team event in 2022, so Mishin can't take part. He was in her kiss and cry. Tuktamysheva had skated in Eteri shows with Kamila and in Navka Shows. I think they even referred to each other as girlfriends that have socialised. Remember people like Lees are saying it's ANY association. These are clear associations with Valieva.

M/G have appeared with Kamila in Eteri shows.

You need to exclude any skater that has trained with her at Novogorsk too which would be most that have been in the national team over the past several years, and you would have to look at who associated in juniors as well.

Then there was a pre-Olympics camp at Krasnoyarsk in 2022 before heading to Beijing, so anyone selected for Beijing associated with her.

 

[lariko]

D

Dikizhi above Gumennik

I posted it before the FS. Gumennik has an advantage of better PCS and years of narrative that he was the raising star of Russian Men while he skated in juniors, but that FS probably closed the door for him. Dikidzhi is this typical Russian story in men, when they capitalize on a brief moment between late adolescence and full-on adulthood in men and skate a few competitions with high technical content and clean. This is not the same as actual stability or mastery. If he is still in this honeymoon phase next February, great. Otherwise, he has little to offer. Calling it a year ahead is about as hard as a call on Petrsoyan--despite her brilliant performances at RusNats. After RusNats, Semenenko is probably going to be theRusFed's pick. I am sad that it's not Gumennik, tbh. I am rooting for him.

I don't know to which extent ISU will use the Ukranian list in determination of the suspected warmongers, but it can be foundational. If it is, then Semenenko is out.

And, to reiterate, I find the conditions set out by ISU too dangerous for athletes' wellbeing to be acceptable without amendments. I hope Russians excerise their bazaar hugging talents to the max to be able to qualify a substitute for each discipline in China, rather than put them all to use to get Petrosyan to skate.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

With all due respect to the moderation team, but with such specific requirements and restrictions on what can be discussed, why not just lock the thread? At this point, it is essentially recapping Russian Nationals. We already have an entire forum dedicated to that event.

 

[KhinSuShein]

Mishin was support personnel for Valieva in the team event in 2022, so Mishin can't take part. He was in her kiss and cry. Tuktamysheva had skated in Eteri shows with Kamila and in Navka Shows. I think they even referred to each other as girlfriends that have socialised. Remember people like Lees are saying it's ANY association. These are clear associations with Valieva.

M/G have appeared with Kamila in Eteri shows.

You need to exclude any skater that has trained with her at Novogorsk too which would be most that have been in the national team over the past several years, and you would have to look at who associated in juniors as well.

Then there was a pre-Olympics camp at Krasnoyarsk in 2022 before heading to Beijing, so anyone selected for Beijing associated with her.

Well here they said it is not allowed to discuss politics, however who will discuss politics if it is not involved/impacted. It is just a sad thing (or i am angry) that they regulate everything that way. I personally disagree. Hope i can disagree because i alone can not change things and i am very unimportant person. Hope they can ignore me what i said here.

 

[Skating91]

With all due respect to the moderation team, but with such specific requirements and restrictions on what can be discussed, why not just lock the thread? At this point, it is essentially recapping Russian Nationals. We already have an entire forum dedicated to that event.

We can discuss the nuances of the ISU conditions. It does seem vague and badly written. I think I will be correct that Adelia goes with Eteri it applies to no contact with a suspended skater while suspended. The ISU will have some fun and make Russian skaters and coaches squirm a little in the meantime. Also, it generates a bunch of controversy which is a tried and tested way to generate attention for the sport. Everyone remembers only the controversial Olympics. The ISU has been trying out new things like electronic advertising boards, more social media engagement, but the GP final showed it wasn't very successful. 4,000 seat arena they were struggling to fill for what is the best annual competition of the year (outside of one particular domestic tournament).

The question is, why isn't the ISU applying this stipulation to all skaters and coaches in the world? And why can Eteri sit in the kiss and cry with Georgian skaters but not Russian skaters when they train on the same ice. It seems hypocritical, and it weakens their argument that Eteri is drugging skaters. What they're saying is, it's okay to drug skaters if they only finish 15th. It is really strange. Deep down they don't believe she is doing any of these things the conspiratorially minded accuse her of.

It really is simple, Russian girls are just better because it is a bigger sport in Russia. Why are Canadian ice hockey players better than the rest of the world, American basketball players better than the rest of the world? It's not doping (although the NHL and NBA are not party to the WADA code but this is a different discussion). They are more popular in these countries so have a larger talent pool to choose from.

 

[el henry]

The rules were not written to accommodate "Russia".
The rules were written to accommodate individual athletes who are willing to declare themselves as neutral and skate for themselves only and not for Russia.

A neutral skater has no need for a substitute. The spot is "theirs", not the country's. How does a person pick a substitute? How would I pick a substitute for the El Henry team if I were an individual neutral athlete? Not logical or rational.

Although I am not convinced for the need for neutral athletes to participate, the rules make perfect sense if they do.

 

[AlexBreeze]

The rules were written to accommodate individual athletes who are willing to declare themselves as neutral and skate for themselves only and not for Russia.

But it's RusFed who has to choose the entries and send them.

 

[el henry]

But it's RusFed who has to choose the entries and send them.

Yes, this is a conundrum for me too. How does a Fed select "neutral" athletes?

 

[lariko]

If they are supposed to be neutral and want to take part as an individual and not compete for Russia/Belorussia, then why emulate the country quota, stipulate that only one of them in each discipline can attempt to qualify and put RusFed in charge? This Schrodinger both Russians/Belorusians while not Russians/Belorussians box applies an unreasonable pressure on the athletes and only increases the already unreasonable amount of power RusFed wields over these individuals. I can't comment on Belorussian Fed, but to rely on RusFed to make decisions that uphold the interests, health and wellbeing of athletes over Mother Russia's pride... are we really there?

If they are neutral individuals and had been proven to be neutral via a careful examination, why are they not allowed to speak?

IOC just created another problem/scandal for Olympics where there was none. Russians/Belorussians are banned. Until conditions exist for a normal re-entry into competitive circuit, inventing this...thing was just bad.

Comically, they are also putting these gagged Russians/Nonrussians under the ISU banner, which is an intriguing symbology, to say the least.

 

[Mathman]

It really is simple, Russian girls are just better because it is a bigger sport in Russia. Why are Canadian ice hockey players better than the rest of the world, American basketball players better than the rest of the world? ... [These sports] are more popular in these countries so have a larger talent pool to choose from.

The other international sport that I somewhat follow is chess. Historically, Russia has been dominant in this pastime (although the last four world champions were two Indians, a Norwegian and a Chinese.) Every Russian child learns the game and many became enthusiastic competitors.

World champion Mikhail Tal, a school teacher by profession, once observed two boys in his class surreptitiously carrying on a chess game at their desks when they were supposed to be attending to their schoolwork. Tal called them into his office and gave them a stern lecture -- on how to avoid a certain opening trap that one had fallen into.

How is this related to figure skating and to this thread? Tal was succeeded (after a brief comeback by former long time champion Mikhail Botvinik) by Tigran Petrosian, though I have been unable to establish whether he has any connection to Adelina. Strangely, none of these Soviet champions was actually Russian. Tal was Latvian, Petrosian was born in Georgia of Amrenian parents, and Botvinik was born in (the Grand Duchy of) Finland. The most famous Russian champion, Alexader Alekhine, was born in Moscow but competed for France.

Spectator attendence at the just-concluded world chess championship ijn Singapor was 7000. (No one complained about how boring the performances were.) Ticket prices, $64 per game (14 ganes in all), 10% discount if you buy three or more games. VIP single game pass, $280. Includes meet-and-greet with famous grandmasters.

 

[Duality]

I am Russian, live in Russia myself but I don't want to see Russian athletess compete before the war is over and maybe several years after that. Russia deserves to be banned from OG for decades not only for war but for the support of doping. Also there is no way that all these people are neutral athletes, they are deeply incorporated in the whole mix of government and sport. Mishina\Gallyamov, Kondratyuk, Stepanova\Bukin and others happily visted events with Putin. And now they are neutral and don't support war? I'm not buying that. Also for someone who'd like to say that Russian athletes are suffering for being born in Russia, they aren't suffering in any way, they are paid more by the government than atletes in other countries can dream to see. And participating in OG aren't some basic human rights to begin with.