2025 U S.Nationals Senior Women's Short Program

[CoyoteChris]

I assessed that jump as an under-rotation, but judging from that photo, it should have been a downgrade.

Tara , or Tara was told to, carefully chose her words as to not be inflamatory or judgmental to anyone and let the ultra slow motion speak for itself. It is a pity that a judge/tech panel has this tiny screen and not anything close to the technology of NBC sports. I played the NBColympics post back and forth several time, stopping the action. I am no judge but it appears to be a downgrade. In the future, maybe boot sensors or even AI will be able to assist the judges/tech panel to make accurate decisions. We shall see if tonights Johnny and Tara show of three hours has more on this.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Naw, the most vocal critics would be us. "Oh, those nefarious scoundrels at the ISU have hacked their own program to cheat as usual."

GS will see post after post along such lines -- written by the posters' own AI composition programs for maximum effect.

True, but the problem is you cant argue with math. It is unforgiving. If a boot sensor says it hit the ice at 1 hour 38 min 37.09876543 seconds and the video time matches the boot sensor, and the angle is 127.3874 degrees, then the only thing to argue is the certification of the accuracy of the equipment...something I argued and testified in court for the Washington State Patrol.

 

[Skater Boy]

It was a decent competition. Alyssa was wonderful. Amber got dinged appropriately. But with her content she can come back. Zhang has nice skating skills. Happy for Bradie though her skating never wows me. Honestly if it were not for the fact Isabeau was defeinding worlld silver medalllist she would n ot be a contender to go to worlds. She hasn't skated mmuch or super well being beaten by lesser skaters. I really wonder about Starr and Lindsay is it time to say farewell. As long as they love the journney.

 

[TontoK]

Tara , or Tara was told to, carefully chose her words as to not be inflamatory or judgmental to anyone and let the ultra slow motion speak for itself. It is a pity that a judge/tech panel has this tiny screen and not anything close to the technology of NBC sports. I played the NBColympics post back and forth several time, stopping the action. I am no judge but it appears to be a downgrade. In the future, maybe boot sensors or even AI will be able to assist the judges/tech panel to make accurate decisions. We shall see if tonights Johnny and Tara show of three hours has more on this.

I don't object to a "lack of meanness" but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect truthful commentary, especially as it relates to the technical aspects of the sport. I think television commentary is where most of us learned to differentiate between good and bad elements. I'm not interested in Canadian Nationals style commentary, where a new fan would think everyone skates a World Champion caliber program.

 

[snowflake]

For however long they keep it up, NBC put Alysa's SP on Youtube:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Well NBC or whoever doesn't want to share this with the rest of the world? Not available

 

[Mathman]

True, but the problem is you cant argue with math. It is unforgiving. If a boot sensor says it hit the ice at 1 hour 38 min 37.09876543 second...

Still, I would not like to see figure skating go in the direction of, skater A did 127.3874 degrees and won the gold medal while skater B dot in only 127.3873 degrees and took silver. To me, part of figure skating and of figure skating judging will always be, was the performance pleasing to the eye?

I feel the same way about music. Music should sound good. If it doesn't;t, then what's the point?

Sound good to whom? To the AI program, of course!

 

[noskates]

I was not bashing Amber but merely stating an opinion. Since Amber has been competing she's sang pretty much the same tune year after year with only some of the details changing. It used to make me nervous to watch her because I was just waiting for her to implode - and most times she did! Since winning Nats last year she's had a great run and her skating has been masterful. BUT......every skater is human and probably has things outside of the rink that impact them. Money, being away from family, boot issues, etc.etc. but many of them just suck it up and skate. Figure skating is a rough, demanding sport and I'm definitely not minimizing that. I just don't want to hear the excuses. She had a skate that wasn't up to what she considers her par. So go out there tonight and ace it!

 

[TontoK]

Still, I would not like to see figure skating go in the direction of, skater A did 127.3874 degrees and won the gold medal while skater B dot in only 127.3873 degrees and took silver. To me, part of figure skating and of figure skating judging will always be, was the performance pleasing to the eye?

I feel the same way about music. Music should sound good. If it doesn't;t, then what's the point?

Sound good to whom? To the AI program, of course!

To be clear, my fantasy projection of an AI system applied to only the tech side of the sport - well, the jump side anyway... although an AI system could probably differentiate between L3 and L4 steps and spins, too.

"This jump is cleanly rotated. That jump is not; it falls within the boundaries of a q." This is one aspect of the sport that I think can be clearly defined, and I think everyone (in theory) would agree that we should have accuracy and consistency.

In terms of the artistic aspect, I would agree with you. GOE and components are more subjective.

 

[Mathman]

I don't object to a "lack of meanness" but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect truthful commentary...

That's therdistinction. "Fans" and critics who, event after event, stalk the skaters that they don't like, looking for any opportunity to pounce -- thsat is what is off-putting, to me.

 

[TontoK]

That's therdistinction. "Fans" and critics who, event after event, stalk the skaters that they don't like, looking for any opportunity to pounce -- thsat is what is off-putting, to me.

On this point, we can agree. Fully agree.

But in this case, I was talking about professional commentators, not "fans" and I put that in quotes because someone who acts as you describe is not a true fan of figure skating. (In my mind, I'm facing a minor rebellion. "There has to be an exception when reminiscing about Urmanov." No, Tonto, there is no exception, so act better about him.)

I wish all skaters well. I hope they all fully rotate their jumps and get their levels and excite me as a viewer. I hope they skate to their potential and achieve personal goals and make their coaches and families and admirers proud.

But I also don't want to be gaslit about what I just saw.

 

[Mathman]

By the way, it is interesting to me how these issues are resolved in other sports. In NFL football, for instance, it the referees wanted to, they could call "holding" or "unnecessary roughness" or "pass interference" on every play. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. The TV commentators say (on the instant replay, "hey, look, #76 got away with an illegal block" #76's team hurries up to the line of scrimmage to get off the next play before the opposing coach can register a protest and review. Now that's sport!

When a player gets real, real close to a first down, they make a big show of bringing out the carefully calibrated measuring chains. But the ball has already been "spotted" by human eyeballs -- where was the nose of the ball at the exact instant when the ball-carrier's knee touched the ground at the bottom of the pile?

As for the defending Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs, "everybody knows" that the referees consistently cheat in their favor in every game.

(I don't know what the moral of this story is or what it has to do with figure skating. I just hope everyone has a performance in the LP that she can be proud of.)

 

[TontoK]

You know, @Mathman, one of my favorite aspects of the forum is when the main topic has sort of run its course, and people like us meander around debating side topics. It makes the board a place for real human connection.

Best wishes my friend, and I suspect we'll cross paths in the other competition threads soon, as the events of the day are about to unfold. I'll try not to harp on the tech panel tonight. They've certainly tipped their hands about the lack of strictness, so it won't come as a surprise... not that it should have come as a surprise in the first place.

 

[moonvine]

On the one hand, I don't have a problem with Lindsay getting dinged for rotations. Those dings were accurately applied.

On the other hand, dinging her and ignoring similar (and more egregious) deficiencies from other skaters supports a narrative that the playing field is not level, and that officials are tinkering with the scores to achieve an outcome they desire.

In the future, suppose an AI program is developed to accurately mimic a tech panel without bias. I suspect the most vocal critics of this would be the federations. It would limit their ability to "massage" the results.

And lest I be accused of my own bias in pointing out the unfairness of Lindsay's situation in relation to the other skaters, I'll add this: I don't particularly enjoy her skating.

I really like Lindsay's skating but USFS is clearly not going to support her. Perhaps she will follow many others in such situations and go into pairs.

 

[Mathman]

You know, @Mathman, one of my favorite aspects of the forum is when the main topic has sort of run its course, and people like us meander around debating side topics.

"There has to be an exception when reminiscing about Urmanov."

Urmanov was actually a fine skater. Five-time Soviet/Russian champ, landed his first quad a1 17, he hit highs and lows in international competition, the lows usually the product of untimely injuries and inadequate training facilities.

When he turned pro he was cast in the role (in pro competitions" in North America) of the evil, pompous, fancy-pants Russian villain against our valiant heroes Brian Boitano and Kurt Browning, Elvis Stojko and Todd Elldrege. The audience booed lustily when he took the ice in a jewel-studded Prince Igor costume, or as Rasputin's butler in a flowing scarlet cape.

In real life, I don't think he was like this at all. I hope he made a ton of money.

Anyway, off to the rhythm dance!

 

[TontoK]

Urmanov was actually a fine skater.

You are dead to me.

 

[midori green]

I really like Lindsay's skating but USFS is clearly not going to support her. Perhaps she will follow many others in such situations and go into pairs.

I'm hoping she keeps working to fix her rotation issues...remove all doubt, continues to improve performance, and dominates in a few years. I think her recent injuries have been the biggest hindrance. She performed more last season. This season, she seems like she's fighting to get through everything. (Also, she doesn't seem like a pairs girl to me.)