Guilty of being a human being. LolYeah, that's true. I find that the one thing I cannot force myself to do on this board is to follow my own advice.
Sorry for the over-reaction.
2025 World Championships Women's Short Program
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
You have just confirmed my point about the "trey-and-a-quarter." A quad toe-loop or Salchow has about 3.25 revolutions in the air.180 degrees is allowed and this what they do... Just people get upset about a 4T being 180 degrees prerotated
Or you value some skills more than they do.Only one judge is ever American, the technical controller can be from any country, but it seems the decisions always seem to benefit one particular powerful fed
Even go back to junior World's we saw the technical panel and judges suddenly fall asleep for one particular skater while burying Wada :shurg:
Just seems to keep happening over and over. Hey, there are coincidences in life I guess.
I think what he was saying was that he disagreed with her score relative to the others, which you probably do as well. I think one of the main issues that is causing people to question the scoring is lack of consistency of the scoring compared to the grand prix season. In the international grand prix events during the season it was pretty well established that the top Japanese girls, barring falls, major errors, or Amber Glenn 3As, were considered superior to the top Americans. So when people see the top 4 all skate pretty clean, its logical to expect the 2 Japanese to be on top with the 2 Americans a few points behind. When they dont see that, its not unreasonable to assume the competition being in Boston and Olympic spots being determined has a role in that. Especially if you have followed skating for awhile. Lol
It's almost like one reining and one former world medalist have been off ice dealing with an injury and coming out of retirement slowly improving during the season.
Or skating the same, but being judged differently.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
To me it seemed clear that Alysa skated better yesterday than she had during the grand prix season. Isabeau skated much better -- her most satisfying performance in two years -- especially in terms of choreography and presentation. Sakamoto skated somewhat worse than usual -- well, she had one glaring mistake that cost her five points or so -- and Chiba skated very well, but about the same as we had seen earlier in the season. I am not dismayed by the results nor willing to turn things over to the conspiracy theorists yet.
As for the long program, that's still to be seen. Alysa may not have four minutes of stamina and high-powered tech left in her. Isabeau might not be as magical in the LP format. Amber may be too far behind to make up enough ground even if she nails the triple Axel and is otherwise clean.
Kaori could still win this just by doing her steady-as-she-goes thing. Mona Chiba is well-positioned only 14 hundredths of a point off the pace, plus there are others who could rise to the occasion.
I can't wait!
My point was that it is completely reasonable to think that the competition being held in the US could help the Americans with the judges. Im not making a judgement as to why. But in my opinion, the 2 Japanese girls are a notch above the American girls, so I don't think its odd that I would be suspicious after watching it. That is just my opinion, and I don't think it is unreasonable. It might be wrong, but it isn't unreasonable. I agree it is the FS that will decide. Hopefully we will see judging more consistent with the Grand Prix season.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I am still not sure why we expect that the performances at this event will be of the same quality all up and down the line as what the skaters accomplished in the fall. Some skated better yesterday than expected and some didn't. That's sports. One day you strike out, the next day you hit a home run. No reason to blame the umpire.
The problem is when the umpire calls a pitch a strike in the regular season and then calls the same pitch a ball in the championship. Even if you improve, that doesn't mean the judges should ignore the mistakes you do make. I simply don't think she improved much from one month ago. The fact Levito got placed above Higuchi as well only bolsters my view of the judging. Or do you think that was fine too? Are you saying you agree with the judging of this event? Or are you saying you always trust the judges to be fair? Im not sure which point you are trying to make.
I was right! For once...
Yes, this will be very exciting. My crystal ball is leaning towards Chiba right now. But I wouldn't be surprised if Alysa pulls it off! Everyone loves a comeback story...and the judges do too...
Can't wait!
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Actually, in sports like basketball and hockey there is a general tendency to "let the boys play" and not to call fouls so strictly in the playoffs as they had throughout the regular season. But I guess that's not particularly relevant to figure skating.
In answer to your other questions, overall, yes, I was fairly well satisfied with the judging of this event. The only thing I wish were different is that the judges could have shown a little more love to Higuchi, my long-time favorite.
But as for that, the judges are perfectly consistent -- they ALWAYS short change this lady. I was especially happy to see Levito get good marks for this fine performance -- like I said, it's the best I've seen her skate in two years, especially with respect to musical interpretation and projection to the audience. She should get higher marks than she did for not-so-stellar performances of the past months.
The other thing that I do not completely buy into is that the ISU benefits in some way if the judges inflate the scores of skaters from the host country. There may be reasons why skaters perform better before a home crowd, but I do not see any plusses for the ISU or for international judges one way or the other. Although back in the 6.0 days Tatiana Tarasova was quoted as saying, about the 1998 Olympics, "why didn't Frank Carrol just slip us (the Russian judges) a bottle of vodka -- what did we care which American girl won?" And Philippe Candeloro, two-time Olympic bronze medalist from France, chimed in with, ""Of course we (the French Federation) make deals with other Feds -- France would never win any medals if we didn't."
I do have to admit that I was happy when Stefan Lindemann won the bronze medal at 2004 Worlds in Germany (Stephane Lambiel got fourth, but at that time Lambiel wasn't' yet the skater that he was destined to become.
I wasn't mad when Adelina Sotnikova was scored higher than Yuna Kim at the Sochi Olympics. I liked Kim better but I could see why the scores came out as they did.
Last edited:
It’s a great story going into the Olympic season.Yes, this will be very exciting. My crystal ball is leaning towards Chiba right now. But I wouldn't be surprised if Alysa pulls it off! Everyone loves a comeback story...and the judges do too...
Can't wait!
Actually, in sports like basketball and hockey there is a general tendency to "let the boys play" and not to call fouls so strictly in the playoffs as they had throughout the regular season. But I guess that's not particularly relevant to figure skating.
In answer to your other questions, overall, yes, I was fairly well satisfied with the judging of this event. The only thing I wish were different is that the judges could have shown a little more love to Higuchi, my long-time favorite.
I was especially happy to see Levito get good marks for this fine performance -- like I said, it's the best I've seen her skate in two years, especially with respect to musical interpretation and projection to the audience. She should get higher marks than she did for not-so-stellar performances of the past months.
The other thing that I do not completely buy into is that the ISU benefits in some way if the judges inflate the scores of skaters from the host country. There may be reasons why skaters perform better before a home crowd, but I do not see any plusses for the ISU or for international judges one way or the other. Although back in the 6.0 days Tatiana Tarasova was quoted as saying, about the 1998 Olympics, "why didn't Frank Carrol just slip us (the Russian judges) a bottle of vodka -- what did we care which American girl won?" And Philippe Candeloro, two-time Olympic bronze medalist from France, chimed in with, ""Of course we (the French Federation) make deals with other Feds -- France would never win any medals if we didn't."
I do have to admit that I was happy when Stefan Lindemann won the bronze medal at 2004 Worlds in Germany (Stephane Lambiel got fourth, but at that time Lambiel wasn't' yet the skater that he was destined to become.
What is your opinion on why Higuchi is so underscored throughout her career? Almost every commentator has her as one of their favorites and talk about how talented she is, yet when she skates really well she is still scored like a second tier skater. Even here, completely clean, Sakamoto pops, Kim and Glenn fall, yet she is still 4th. When Glenn lands 3A she goes to the top, when Wakaba does it, nothing. Wakaba often has clocked faster top speed than Sakamoto at Nats, again so what? Gets her nothing. The word has long been that her Fed never liked her and doesn't support her. I don't know if that's another conspiracy theory, but something is wrong .Actually, in sports like basketball and hockey there is a general tendency to "let the boys play" and not to call fouls so strictly in the playoffs as they had throughout the regular season. But I guess that's not particularly relevant to figure skating.
In answer to your other questions, overall, yes, I was fairly well satisfied with the judging of this event. The only thing I wish were different is that the judges could have shown a little more love to Higuchi, my long-time favorite.
I was especially happy to see Levito get good marks for this fine performance -- like I said, it's the best I've seen her skate in two years, especially with respect to musical interpretation and projection to the audience. She should get higher marks than she did for not-so-stellar performances of the past months.
The other thing that I do not completely buy into is that the ISU benefits in some way if the judges inflate the scores of skaters from the host country. There may be reasons why skaters perform better before a home crowd, but I do not see any plusses for the ISU or for international judges one way or the other. Although back in the 6.0 days Tatiana Tarasova was quoted as saying, about the 1998 Olympics, "why didn't Frank Carrol just slip us (the Russian judges) a bottle of vodka -- what did we care which American girl won?" And Philippe Candeloro, two-time Olympic bronze medalist from France, chimed in with, ""Of course we (the French Federation) make deals with other Feds -- France would never win any medals if we didn't."
I do have to admit that I was happy when Stefan Lindemann won the bronze medal at 2004 Worlds in Germany (Stephane Lambiel got fourth, but at that time Lambiel wasn't' yet the skater that he was destined to become.
Actually you could argue Sakamoto came out of the SP in the best shape. Her 2 top threats took themselves out and a clean skate from her would blow right by Liu(if Kaori is scored like usual, meaning way over scored IMO.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I don't know. For me, I know what I do like about her skating -- "there's just something about her."
The expert and experienced figure skating judges seem not to see it like I do. Well, it's a judged sport.In this event I was taken aback by the protocols. The Slovakian judge gave Higuchi scores in the low sevens for Composition and Presentation -- despite giving her GOEs ranging from +2 to +5. The French judge gave her 6.75 in Composition and 7.00 in Presentation and ranked her 8th overalll (Sakamoto 3rd, Chiba 1st). Go figure.
But I can't believe that there is a conspiracy between the French and the Slovakian Skating Federations to suppress, for nefarious reasons, Higuchi's scores in favor of other Japanese skaters
Anyway, my take-away is this: it is not my job to tell the judges how to judge, nor is it the judges' job to tell me what to like or not to like. If it were up to me I would give Kaori a one-point deduction for dying her hair blonde -- this detracts from her natural beauty on the ice and inserts a jarring note into the whole esthetic -- but I don't expect the ISU to revise the scoring system to provide for bad hair violations.
I do worry about Alysa's chances of walking off with the whole thing. She has not yet demonstrated this season that she can produce a long program that is the equal of her short. But I hope she does.
I don't necessarily buy into full blown conspiracy, but I do think the major Feds have influence with which of their skaters get a more favorable view. I also think the ISU is very aware of the financial desirability of as many American eyes on skating as possible, especially leading into the Olympics. But, as you say, we don't know. And the ice is slippery, so even favoritism can only go so far if you do your job really well. So it will definitely be tense tonight and I would say any of the top five plus Amber could win if everything goes their way.I don't know. For me, I know what I do like about her skating -- "there's just something about her."
In this event I was taken aback by the protocols. The Slovakian judge gave Higuchi scores in the low sevens for Composition and Presentation -- despite giving her GOEs ranging from +2 to +5. The French judge gave her 6.75 in Composition and 7.00 in Presentation and ranked her 8th overalll (Sakamoto 3rd, Chiba 1st). Go figure.
But I can't believe that there is a conspiracy between the French and the Slovakian Skating Federations to suppress, for nefarious reasons, Higuchi's scores in favor of other Japanese skaters
Anyway, my take-away is this: it is not my job to tell the judges how to judge, nor is it the judges' job to tell me what to like or not to like. If it were up to me I would give Kaori a one-point deduction for dying her hair blonde -- this detracts from her natural beauty on the ice and inserts a jarring note into the whole esthetic -- but I don't expect the ISU to revise the scoring system to provide for bad hair violations.
I do worry about Alysa's chances of walking off with the whole thing. She has not yet demonstrated this season that she can produce a long program that is the equal of her short. But I hope she does.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
I see there have been a lot of comments about the women's short program. After seeing the results of this first segment, I really did not have a good feeling about judging in the rest of the disciplines. And I was right, especially about pairs. Oh boy! It looks like Japan and Italy federations are working overtime politically to set up their favored skaters for the Milan Olympics. 
There's a lot going on here, and most of it involves politics and favoritism.
For the women, U.S. fed is clearly behind Alysa Liu, and she's generally well-liked so she got a bit of sp inflation and her slight UR was ignored. It should have at least been called a Q. Amber Glenn is also supported by U.S. fed, but she needs to skate clean because of her rep for inconsistency. Still, Amber was over-punished for falling in the sp on her signature 3-axel. Who else among the ladies is competing a 3-axel! No way should Amber be way down in 9th place in the sp.
Amber is a better skater than Nina Pinzarrone, Haien Lee, and Maddie Schizas. I think Amber should be at least in 6th or 7th place in the sp. However, I am very happy for Maddie skating so well and making the final group.
Who doesn't feel that Wakaba Higuchi wuzrobbed?!
Wakaba should be in first place after the sp! The problem is that Japan fed does not back Wakaba that much. Japan fed is all in on supporting Kaori Sakamoto and Mone Chiba, though. Wakaba is there as an afterthought. No way should Wakaba be down in 4th place in the sp! Kaori eked out a double-triple, yet still she's coddled in 5th place with overly high PCS. 
Wakaba skated outstanding but is never rewarded properly.
Isabeau Levito and Chiba were given overly high PCS in my opinion. For me, Chiba's skating is too juniorish for the PCS she was given. Alysa Lui's PCS should be 37, if they are giving Kaori 35! Amber's PCS should be higher too! The top PCS should be awarded to Alysa, Kimmy Repond, and Pinzarrone. Wakaba deserves good PCS, too. I think the judges expected the top ladies to perform better, and they wanted Alysa to be up there in the scoring, but did not expect her to be first. I would have top placements: Wakaba; Alysa; Chiba; Schizas; Levito; Kaori; Amber...
In the fp, it will be interesting to see if Alysa will be called for any URs. I don't expect Alysa to remain in first place. Levito definitely seems to pull out consistent performances in big moments, but she lacks good form on her jumps. Hopefully, Amber will hold it together and pull up. I would love to see Maddie skate her gorgeous fp to best of her ability and retain a high placement. I wish Wakaba would be fairly rewarded when she skates welI. Sigh... I am not looking forward to the usual messy judging.
There's a lot going on here, and most of it involves politics and favoritism.For the women, U.S. fed is clearly behind Alysa Liu, and she's generally well-liked so she got a bit of sp inflation and her slight UR was ignored. It should have at least been called a Q. Amber Glenn is also supported by U.S. fed, but she needs to skate clean because of her rep for inconsistency. Still, Amber was over-punished for falling in the sp on her signature 3-axel. Who else among the ladies is competing a 3-axel! No way should Amber be way down in 9th place in the sp.
Amber is a better skater than Nina Pinzarrone, Haien Lee, and Maddie Schizas. I think Amber should be at least in 6th or 7th place in the sp. However, I am very happy for Maddie skating so well and making the final group.Who doesn't feel that Wakaba Higuchi wuzrobbed?!
Wakaba should be in first place after the sp! The problem is that Japan fed does not back Wakaba that much. Japan fed is all in on supporting Kaori Sakamoto and Mone Chiba, though. Wakaba is there as an afterthought. No way should Wakaba be down in 4th place in the sp! Kaori eked out a double-triple, yet still she's coddled in 5th place with overly high PCS. Wakaba skated outstanding but is never rewarded properly.Isabeau Levito and Chiba were given overly high PCS in my opinion. For me, Chiba's skating is too juniorish for the PCS she was given. Alysa Lui's PCS should be 37, if they are giving Kaori 35! Amber's PCS should be higher too! The top PCS should be awarded to Alysa, Kimmy Repond, and Pinzarrone. Wakaba deserves good PCS, too. I think the judges expected the top ladies to perform better, and they wanted Alysa to be up there in the scoring, but did not expect her to be first. I would have top placements: Wakaba; Alysa; Chiba; Schizas; Levito; Kaori; Amber...
In the fp, it will be interesting to see if Alysa will be called for any URs. I don't expect Alysa to remain in first place. Levito definitely seems to pull out consistent performances in big moments, but she lacks good form on her jumps. Hopefully, Amber will hold it together and pull up. I would love to see Maddie skate her gorgeous fp to best of her ability and retain a high placement. I wish Wakaba would be fairly rewarded when she skates welI. Sigh... I am not looking forward to the usual messy judging.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I seem to be a misfit as a figure skating fan. I do not see any evidence of Italian and Japanese politics and favoritism. The Japanese and Italian skaters have skated well. I do not see anything "going on."Oh boy! It looks like Japan and Italy federations are working overtime politically to set up their favored skaters for the Milan Olympics.
Did skater X deserve a point higher and skater Y a point lower in the opinion of fan Z? OK. What I saw was a few skaters skated well and are bunched at the top, a few made mistakes and ended up farther back than they hoped for. Someone will win the free skate and the title of World Champion. That's OK, too.
Similar threads
