2025 World Figure Skating Championships Free Dance

[Dimitry]

F/G getting +3s (even a +4) on their combo lift with a VISIBLE error is just not right... mistakes are so rare in ice dance that making a blatant one HAS to be punished. Perfectly clean lifts from other teams also get +3s...
Above all I think ice dance suffers from not enough goe separation. An excellent element gets +3/+4... an ok element +1/+2. A 0/-1 is awarded if you make some visible error (unless you are F/G it seems...). Only if you fall you are getting into the -2/-3 territory, I don't even know what the dancers have to do to get -4 or -5 which basically don't exist (both of yesterday falls in the step sequence got -3 goe. If you fall from a jump you get automatic -5 99% of the time. In Ice dance you don't even get -4s for doing the worst error possibile which happens in like 2% of all the routines). This means that the teams basically are stuck in their score range and if they don't make some silly mistake literally nothing they do can ever change their score by more than +/- 3 points from their "expected" score.
I don't want to even talk about levels. An impossibile level 4 step sequence is only getting 0.74 points more than a level 2 which everyone is capable of getting. Madness. No one is even trying to get level 4 steps cause why bother when 1 point of GOE is more than the difference between level 4 and level 2???

The scoring system seems made on purpose to NOT reward good vs bad.

 

[Janice4th]

I see someone answered. There is no point in calling them all ISU then.

 

[Janice4th]

That rule changed in 2016, the judges are in order of the number assigned to them on the scoring sheets nowadays.

Well the ISU designation is pointless, then.

 

[elbkup]

I have not been watching the last flights of competitions lately b/c the outcome seems generally too obvious. By the time we get to Worlds I have seen all top contenders programs anyway; I love watching skaters from smaller feds and skaters that tend to be low balled.. they have some very interesting programs, costuming, fresh content, i.e. the young Finns, Holly and Jason of Australia (sublime!), Estonia, Israel, Sweden, Ireland, LaLa (!) and the young Japanese dancers. Congrats to all the Medalists!!

 

[slider11]

I said last Worlds, not last competition. They're definitely going for the Olympics, but probably not the Worlds immediately afterwards (as is common for the Olympic season).

I stand corrected. I can see them leaving after the Olympics. Although I think Madison will miss the glitz and glamour

 

[reneerose]

I haven't been keeping up and I have not yet watched either the Worlds short or free dances yet, but the country affiliation of each judge is not private? I thought the countries were still kept private. I don't think I can stand Eastern Bloc judging come back into play. Had enough of that during the Bourne & Kraatz era.

 

[chepe]

I don't think I can stand Eastern Bloc judging come back into play. Had enough of that during the Bourne & Kraatz era.

Ha, you should have seen the Brit judge during Euros...
Anyways, yep it's public.

 

[Olibritt]

My Highlights of the FD:
1.- The FINS choreo step sequence of their A chorus Line program was great, they deserved the standing ovation for that. 2 spots for the FIN teams is great news.
2.- I like the czech teams and I admire Taschler's acrobatics but, at times, I miss less acrobatics and something more of other things. I'm glad they keep their 2 spots too.
3.- Smart/Dieck's DUNE is really a stunning program. Every time I see it, I can´t believe that it's over so soon. I'm really happy for their 6th position!! It's much more than I expected but it's well deserved. They need really good ideas for next season if they want to keep up with our expectations

4.- Green/Parson and LaLa are very different teams, very good technically but, IMO, they have a common problem in the FD: the music they use. If they are aiming for top positions, they need to step up their music. I love both Leonard Cohen and The Sound of Silent but they are not telling us anything new with those programs.
5.- Carreira/Ponomarenko. Carmen program with Scott Moir choreo and not very nice costumes. So many things blocking the way to a fair chance to be seen for their own merits... I couldn´t see them skating the first time I saw the program, Tessa&Scott previous Carmen and those costumes blocked the view. Then I read an interview with Christina saying that skating to Carmen was a dream of her since she was a girl. That, I can understand. Still not a good idea, but dreams are for making them real, so what can I say? Just give the program another chance watching it again.
They changed the costumes, better but still not great: they really need help in this area, the costumes needs to communicate who they are on the ice and they need to work in their favor, not against their bodytypes, maybe next year they'll get it better. They polished the movements, I managed not to see Tessa and Scott in their movements this time, it was good and their skating was good too, they were very invested. Someone mentioned that this Carmen was sexual. Well, Carmen character IS sexual and free. The problem is not sexual Carmen, the real problem are all those "Disney axesual Carmens" that we have seen over the years (including funny Plusenko's and cute Alina's).
They did a good work, their scores show that. Will I remember this program? Probably not, but that was not the goal. They will not forget that they did it.

6.- I wasn´t invested in the battle for the bronze, I like better the italians but this program doesn´t make them any favors and the Britts program lacked Beyonce's "presence", she is lovely but she can not incarnate Beyonce even when he is making space for her to do that.
7.- I was finally mesmerized by someone in the last group: the two top teams. I have programs to rewatch the following months.
8.- I don´t get the music mix of Piper&Paul but they skate with such conviction that, who cares? They really took me with them in their trip.
9.- Chock&Bates jazz program is really good. It's jazz and, at times, they seem to be not dancers, but instruments playing the music. It's as good as the snake program but subtle in this case, not explicit. I enjoyed it a lot.
10.- Yesterday I forgot to point out something that made me very happy: Maksym Nikitin, the Ukranian icedancer that left Zhulin team at the beginning of the war reapeared as a coach for the Dutch team. So good to see him!

All in all, a good final. I enjoyed it.

​

 

[4everchan]

You know what I mean

OK—ISU, you’ve managed to engineer a Worlds medal for Fear & Gibson. Can we PLEASE now stop with these ridiculous RD “innovations” designed to reward their brand of skating?

I’d like to see people return to dancing in hold, among other things.

if dance in holds were a thing, Piper and Paul would be at least two times world champions.

 

[auser]

if dance in holds were a thing, Piper and Paul would be at least two times world champions.

One of the reasons I love them .

 

[TontoK]

Marjorie and Zach were not their usual selves here. I don’t know what happened to them here, but they were not as clean and crisp in the RD nor the FD as they can be. I was saying oh no during their twizzles in both programs and I was worried for them here, which is not usually what happens when I watch them; they were just off here. I really wanted them to finish higher than they did and I enjoy them and L/B more than C/P. Like L/L in Montreal last year, C/P delivered the best skates of their career so far at a home ice World Championships and received 5th place as a result.

I have to agree with you about LaLa, and I love this team. Something was off, and as I said before, I could tell from Zach's eyes leaving the ice that he knew it. Of course, nobody wanted to believe that... but in an interview afterwards, he classified it as "okay, not great... some technical things" words to that effect... although I admit she felt otherwise. But it wasn't some conspiracy that they dropped in the standings - they just had an off night.

It's a shame, because I was engaged in a fantasy that they could finish 3rd here. I certainly like them more than either the Italians or the Brits, even with an RD that I think is unworthy of their talent.

 

[TallyT]

Well, I may be the only person on this Board happy about this, (ETA: Lilah and Lewis)

No you're not.

 

[4everchan]

I have to agree with you about LaLa, and I love this team. Something was off, and as I said before, I could tell from Zach's eyes leaving the ice that he knew it. Of course, nobody wanted to believe that... but in an interview afterwards, he classified it as "okay, not great... some technical things" words to that effect... although I admit she felt otherwise. But it wasn't some conspiracy that they dropped in the standings - they just had an off night.

It's a shame, because I was engaged in a fantasy that they could finish 3rd here. I certainly like them more than either the Italians or the Brits, even with an RD that I think is unworthy of their talent.

I tend to believe more what Marjorie says in interviews than what Zach says he is rarely happy with anything... and he is really hard on himself. It could also be a coping mechanism... he is not happy with the result so he is trying to find a valid answer... because otherwise, is he going to say "judges didn't go our way and we don't understand why?" you know very well that teams cannot really put the blame on judging... this is why fans do it so loudly

While I was watching, I was thinking this was WAY better than 4CC and there, they were ahead of CPOM. CPOM skated well too... and that's fine but I wouldn't have placed LaLa in 8th in the FD.. that's serious dumping.... for no blatant mistake... nothing really... Look at the protocols Look at the skating scores too

All countries from Eastern Europe have placed LaLa quite low compared to the other countries. Also, most of these countries favoured Davis and Smolkin. I am not conspiring... simply stating facts from the score sheets.

Of course, teams can make mistakes and lose a lot of points... but these mistakes would be reflected very obviously in the score sheets... and there was nothing like that for LaLa today. There was no reason for them to finish so low in the FD. I thought they may end up in 6th because CPOM indeed had a strong skate.. but then, we could also argue that the Italians and the Brits didn't have a stellar skate either and were ranked advantageously.

 

[NanaPat]

Perfect! I wasn’t sure which took precedent.

But even then KOR won't qualify?
Since they only allocated 19 spots for worlds.

I believe Italy only got 1, with an opportunity to try for another at the qualifying event, because they only had one team at Worlds.

 

[TontoK]

I tend to believe more what Marjorie says in interviews than what Zach says he is rarely happy with anything... and he is really hard on himself. It could also be a coping mechanism... he is not happy with the result so he is trying to find a valid answer... because otherwise, is he going to say "judges didn't go our way and we don't understand why?" you know very well that teams cannot really put the blame on judging... this is why fans do it so loudly

While I was watching, I was thinking this was WAY better than 4CC and there, they were ahead of CPOM. CPOM skated well too... and that's fine but I wouldn't have placed LaLa in 8th in the FD.. that's serious dumping.... for no blatant mistake... nothing really... Look at the protocols Look at the skating scores too

All countries from Eastern Europe have placed LaLa quite low compared to the other countries. Also, most of these countries favoured Davis and Smolkin. I am not conspiring... simply stating facts from the score sheets.

Of course, teams can make mistakes and lose a lot of points... but these mistakes would be reflected very obviously in the score sheets... and there was nothing like that for LaLa today. There was no reason for them to finish so low in the FD. I thought they may end up in 6th because CPOM indeed had a strong skate.. but then, we could also argue that the Italians and the Brits didn't have a stellar skate either and were ranked advantageously.

Well, we can agree on one thing.... I didn't like the Brits or the Italians, but I haven't liked them all year anyway.

Shifting gears to Chock and Bates... I just don't think I'm musically sophisticated to really appreciate that FD. I think the elements are "chef's kiss" but the overall program just never quite clicked for me. I mean, he's cool, she's a knockout, what else is new? I'm probably in the minority that loved their mash-up RD.

I like Piper and Paul here very much, more than I have this season. I still do not like the RD.

This sounds like I didn't much like anyone... and that's probably fair. This was the least satisfying event for me, other than the pairs... I chide others for their conspiracy theories, but that was just scored incorrectly.

 

[4everchan]

Well, we can agree on one thing.... I didn't like the Brits or the Italians, but I haven't liked them all year anyway.

Shifting gears to Chock and Bates... I just don't think I'm musically sophisticated to really appreciate that FD.

I love take five.. the issue i had with their FD is that they actually don't dance in 5

I think the elements are "chef's kiss" but the overall program just never quite clicked for me.

Many of them are great... but some are average like their twizzles.

I mean, he's cool, she's a knockout, what else is new? I'm probably in the minority that loved their mash-up RD.

I like Piper and Paul here very much, more than I have this season. I still do not like the RD.

i love their RD this season because comparatively to most RDs, it's fun... Maybe they needed to play the lifeguard theme up with the other costumes...

This sounds like I didn't much like anyone... and that's probably fair.

it's okay... i didn't like any of the pairs LP

This was the least satisfying event for me, other than the pairs... I chide others for their conspiracy theories, but that was just scored incorrectly.

 

[museksk8r]

All countries from Eastern Europe have placed LaLa quite low compared to the other countries. Also, most of these countries favoured Davis and Smolkin. I am not conspiring... simply stating facts from the score sheets.

Of course, teams can make mistakes and lose a lot of points... but these mistakes would be reflected very obviously in the score sheets... and there was nothing like that for LaLa today. There was no reason for them to finish so low in the FD. I thought they may end up in 6th because CPOM indeed had a strong skate.. but then, we could also argue that the Italians and the Brits didn't have a stellar skate either and were ranked advantageously.

I absolutely agree that LaLa should not have been dumped as low as they were when comparable teams they have been scoring close to all season like F/G and G/F were not similarly dumped low in the standings for their flawed programs. I’ll also point out that L/B skated no worse than G/F, yet like LaLa, they were egregiously dumped here, as if Guillaume and Laurence are already the top French team before anyone has even seen them compete together. L/B have already been pegged down to France #2 and unlike G/F, they do not have the reputation that comes with 3 European tiles and 2 World medals. I am going to say out loud that this was political maneuvering and I don’t like it one bit. Like you pointed out in an earlier post, that’s ice dancing 101, especially at a pre-Olympic worlds. I feel that the small errors made by LaLa in the FD should have been penalized less than the more noticeable errors committed by F/G and G/F. The problem though is that F/G and G/F are their nation’s #1 teams, while LaLa are still #2 Canadians. Plus, LaLa did not have a seasoned S/D to contend with last season in Montreal, but Olivia and Tim have definitely become a force to be reckoned with this season with their improvements. LaLa also received no favors from the judges given that they came into this event fresh off their worst FD score of the season at 4CC (118.18) where they didn’t skate how they are capable of. There’s never a dull moment in ice dance. Marjorie and Zach will be back and I’ll be very happy to see them have better days and I really want their confidence to shine through next time.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

No matter what happens at the Olympics, I hope C/B retire immediately after and I hope P/P do not.

I want a clean path to a WC for them. They’ll walk through that door or they won’t. But I want them to.

I think P/P going on to Worlds after the Olympics will depend on how the new team of Fournier-Beaudry/Cizeron place. I’m not sure P/P would stay on for Worlds if it looks like FB/C would take the gold once C/B retire.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

I absolutely agree that LaLa should not have been dumped as low as they were when comparable teams they have been scoring close to all season like F/G and G/F were not similarly dumped low in the standings for their flawed programs. I’ll also point out that L/B skated no worse than G/F, yet like LaLa, they were egregiously dumped here, as if Guillaume and Laurence are already the top French team before anyone has even seen them compete together. L/B have already been pegged down to France #2 and unlike G/F, they do not have the reputation that comes with 3 European tiles and 2 World medals. I am going to say out loud that this was political maneuvering and I don’t like it one bit. Like you pointed out in an earlier post, that’s ice dancing 101, especially at a pre-Olympic worlds. I feel that the small errors made by LaLa in the FD should have been penalized less than the more noticeable errors committed by F/G and G/F. The problem though is that F/G and G/F are their nation’s #1 teams, while LaLa are still #2 Canadians. Plus, LaLa did not have a seasoned S/D to contend with last season in Montreal, but Olivia and Tim have definitely become a force to be reckoned with this season with their improvements. LaLa also received no favors from the judges given that they came into this event fresh off their worst FD score of the season at 4CC (118.18) where they didn’t skate how they are capable of. There’s never a dull moment in ice dance. Marjorie and Zach will be back and I’ll be very happy to see them have better days and I really want their confidence to shine through next time.

Yes, I went back to rewatch what happened and I can’t really make rhyme or reason from the low GOEs the judges (particularly the Eastern European judges) gave LaLa on the same elements of similar teams. I know they were coming back from an injury this season, so their programmes weren’t as innovative as they could have been, so this is something they will want to look at it for next year in order to give the judges no reason not to award them high GOEs. Smart and Dieck’s choreography is less intricate than LaLas but they were highly awarded for the innovative choreography of their programme.

 

[Kitt]

I agree there is never a dull moment in ice dance. I absolutely love Piper and Paul (and I'm American) and hoped for their win. Their FD last year won at Worlds so I was a bit hopeful. I love how they dance in hold and loved their tango FD. Maybe if Chock/Bates retire after the Olympics, Piper and Paul will finally win Worlds next year and I plan to be there in Prague.

That being said, my favorite FDs this year were Dune and the Finns' tango. Heartbreaking that we almost didn't get to see it, but the ice dance gods prevailed!