ISU publishes the list of AINs allowed to take part in the Olympic Qualification

[Alex Fedorov]

Actually, yes, I do enjoy such a right. It is called freedom of speech. I do not need anyone to grant it to me, it is mine by birth. I need to be wary, though, of those who might try to take it away from me.

It's just a farce to make high-flown maxims about freedom of speech in the context of such ISU decisions. Officials who are not authorized to do so have taken on the role of "big brother", controlling what skaters write on social networks or even say in private conversations. Then, on this basis, they decide whether a skater can compete at the Olympics (not to mention other competitions). And this does not cause the slightest protest from you. But you are ready to give me a lecture on your freedom of speech at any moment.

I will use my freedom of speech and state the obvious fact: your statement is sheer hypocrisy.

The Russian Figure Skating Federation is literally on its knees and begging the "white master" for an unheard-of generous handout - permission to send one representative in each of the disciplines to the Olympics. For this, Russian officials are ready to humiliate themselves and do what they are told. Nevertheless, there are people who manage to see even in this Russia's arrogance. Is there a limit to the conceit of such people?

 

[Alex Fedorov]

Let me guess, English is not your first language.

A truly brilliant guess, considering the flag on my avatar.

 

[TallyT]

A truly brilliant guess, considering the flag on my avatar.

I didn't even notice it, your words were what proved it.

 

[Tutto]

I think most Russian fans just didn't want to say it out loud but it was quite obvious that anyone who went to the previous olympics (M/G, B/K and S/B) were almost sure to be denied because they went to that victory parade for the olympians regardless if they are aware or not that it will be turned into political circus. If they did not submit their names, then it's basically admitting that their government is wrong which I don't think will be taken lightly.

It's pretty clear that fans are OK if they submitted other names in pairs and ID, but I think Rusfed made the call to submit M/G and S/B's names to appease to the government because if not, the backlash from the government will be insatiable and crippling to the organization.

My understanding is that the reception at Kremlin with Putin for Olympic medallists you refer to as the victory parade for the Olympians (correct me if I am wrong!) was not the reason for rejection. There was a rally in support of the war and the ice show with pro-war slogans (some skaters were not aware of what it would be like and had to pull at the last moment I believe it was Lisa Tukt who managed that, Kolyada refused beforehand - respect!) all who participated in those got under suspicion + skaters social media accounts were scrutinised - I gather M/G were 'guilty' or rather G was not quite careful in what he was saying.

I do not think that M/G and S/B names were submitted to appease the government, but because RusFed was between a rock and hard place.
If they did not and lets say submitted the names from down the list there would be an outrage from the fans about not following a proper selection process and not sending RN champions. So it was a lose lose situation.

The really unfair bit I think here was that once the first choice was rejected, the second was not even considered. What kind of nonsense is that? Let the second choice go to the QE and if they successful then yes they could go to Milan, the only difference they would not have the subs in an event of injury so what?
The whole thing is a mess.
Frankly, I will not be surprised one bit if the 'approved' ones will be forced to pull out in solidarity with the rejected. As it happened in Artistic Gymnastics.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

the "white master"

Slavs, who make up 80% of Russia's population, are considered white almost anywhere in the World.
And calling others "white master" (as a clear reference to colonialism and slavery) is questionable, considering the history of Russian imperialism and the fact that Russia itself has never been colonised.

(Yes, I know this is political and off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, but I feel like some things can't be left unanswered. Mods, feel free to delete this if it's too inappropriate. While you're here, there are probably a few other posts to take a look at that strayed a bit far from the point of this thread.)

 

[Jumping_Bean]

The really unfair bit I think here was that once the first choice was rejected, the second was not even considered. What kind of nonsense is that? Let the second choice go to the QE and if they successful then yes they could go to Milan, the only difference they would not have the subs in an event of injury so what?

The thing you have to understand is that the federations could actually only submit one skater for full neutral status and one backup only in case of injury. They were never equal submissions and not intended to be, and the rules are quite clear about it. (Reminder, the ISU is only allowing Russians and Belarusians back to appease the IOC, not for any other reasons.)

The substitute would also not have been able to go to the qualifying event in case of a refused visa or equipment malfunction, just injury. In this case, the submitted candidate AIN isn't injured, they could skate, so there's no reason for a substitution. That there is another reason they aren't able to skate isn't relevant.

 

[Magill]

It's just a farce to make high-flown maxims about freedom of speech in the context of such ISU decisions.

I simply answered your question, that's all.

 

[Tutto]

The thing you have to understand is that the federations could actually only submit one skater for full neutral status and one backup only in case of injury. They were never equal submissions and not intended to be, and the rules are quite clear about it. (Reminder, the ISU is only allowing Russians and Belarusians back to appease the IOC, not for any other reasons.)

The substitute would also not have been able to go to the qualifying event in case of a refused visa or equipment malfunction, just injury. In this case, the submitted candidate AIN isn't injured, they could skate, so there's no reason for a substitution. That there is another reason they aren't able to skate isn't relevant.

I think we all are aware of the rules at this stage, merely saying it was not fair to start with. I did not imply that 2 could go somehow did I. But what actually happened that the second choice was sort of made responsible for the actions of other skaters, which can't be just.

 

[Mathman]

One thing in this discussion: if any of those listed athletes will qualify and go to olymipics as neutral and if any of them will get a medal - will or will not they be celebrated in Russian/Belarussian national media and sport institutions?

To me, that exposes the whole charade right there. Of course the AINs from Russia or the PDQs from Russia or the XYZs from Russia are Russian. What else would they be, Martians? Of course people in Russia are proud of the accomplishments of their countrymen in sports or other endeavors.

 

[Skating91]

The ISU need to at a minimum provide the justification for not allowing these skaters to compete. Proof of support for war.

There's a lawlessness and complete lack of transparency about how the ISU have gone about this. Let's not forget it was only 6 weeks ago the ISU's officials were busted for fixing results. This is a judge that was busted 20 years ago for fixing results, yet was still in the ISU system. Obviously this kind of corruption is pervasive.

When the ISU banned that particular judge (although there were others involved in the conspiracy), they provided page after page of proof justifying the decision. Whereas here we are simply told they won't be competing with no proof or justification.

We need to see a full decision as with the corrupt judge.

https://isu-d8g8b4b7ece7aphs.a03.azurefd.net/isudamcontainer/CMS/Corporate-Site/Governance/Transparency/Disciplinary-Decisions/Case-2024-02-ISU-vs--Balkov-Esen-Lisova-Mader--FINAL-DECISION-1743599479-1183.pdf

 

[gmyers]

It's just a farce to make high-flown maxims about freedom of speech in the context of such ISU decisions. Officials who are not authorized to do so have taken on the role of "big brother", controlling what skaters write on social networks or even say in private conversations. Then, on this basis, they decide whether a skater can compete at the Olympics (not to mention other competitions). And this does not cause the slightest protest from you. But you are ready to give me a lecture on your freedom of speech at any moment.

I will use my freedom of speech and state the obvious fact: your statement is sheer hypocrisy.

The Russian Figure Skating Federation is literally on its knees and begging the "white master" for an unheard-of generous handout - permission to send one representative in each of the disciplines to the Olympics. For this, Russian officials are ready to humiliate themselves and do what they are told. Nevertheless, there are people who manage to see even in this Russia's arrogance. Is there a limit to the conceit of such people?

So true! I mean Russia will have 2 skaters in Italy - maybe - and this Is depicted as an exercise of great power and influence! Russia 2 skaters Olympic figure skating. That’s power?

 

[gmyers]

The ISU need to at a minimum provide the justification for not allowing these skaters to compete. Proof of support for war.

There's a lawlessness and complete lack of transparency about how the ISU have gone about this. Let's not forget it was only 6 weeks ago the ISU's officials were busted for fixing results. This is a judge that was busted 20 years ago for fixing results, yet was still in the ISU system. Obviously this kind of corruption is pervasive.

When the ISU banned that particular judge (although there were others involved in the conspiracy), they provided page after page of proof justifying the decision. Whereas here we are simply told they won't be competing with no proof or justification.

We need to see a full decision as with the corrupt judge.

https://isu-d8g8b4b7ece7aphs.a03.azurefd.net/isudamcontainer/CMS/Corporate-Site/Governance/Transparency/Disciplinary-Decisions/Case-2024-02-ISU-vs--Balkov-Esen-Lisova-Mader--FINAL-DECISION-1743599479-1183.pdf

Then isu is very concerned and cares deeply about the privacy of banned skaters and won’t discuss anything about them. They care so much they don’t want to harm them! More orwell

 

[Tutto]

The whole thing is absurd, how the 'cleared' athletes can be neutral if their training is funded by the state? And who no doubt would continue to participate in national competitions.

 

[saine]

I think we all are aware of the rules at this stage, merely saying it was not fair to start with. I did not imply that 2 could go somehow did I. But what actually happened that the second choice was sort of made responsible for the actions of other skaters, which can't be just.

Those were the rules they agreed to when they submitted their choices for skaters. If they didn't agree with the rules, they could have chosen to not submit any names. That's always an option if they felt the rules would be unjust to the alternates.

 

[lariko]

Impossible to have worse games than last time

hold my beer. Given building up acrimony in the world, it would be much worse. And I don't care how much athletes hug each-other in public with glowing smiles.

 

[cocteautwin]

To me, that exposes the whole charade right there. Of course the AINs from Russia or the PDQs from Russia or the XYZs from Russia are Russian. What else would they be, Martians? Of course people in Russia are proud of the accomplishments of their countrymen in sports or other endeavors.

My question was rhetorical, obviously they will. I was implying (in response to some of the arguments presented here) that there's no such a thing as "neutral athletes" and claiming that sports are separated from politics is a nonense. No matter how grey their jackets will be, everybody will know that certain neutral athletes represent Russia and all of their potential success will go on the account of Russia, they will be celebrated as Russian winners, Russian pride defenders etc. and it will fuel propaganda more than ever. Just saying. [If my post is too political and off topic please feel free to delete it].

Mishina/Galiamov is a perfect example- let's not forget that in 2022 Russia as state was also banned from olympics so formally they participated as neutral athletes who do not offically represented their country. Yet, after the games, they actively received and accepted awards form Russian goverment bodies and it was covered by national media. Can they be invited to another game again as neutral atheltes? Even if the "neutrality" is a cynical farse, you cannot just officialy mock it and expect to benefit from it again.

 

[Karoltyna]

Slavs, who make up 80% of Russia's population, are considered white almost anywhere in the World.
And calling others "white master" (as a clear reference to colonialism and slavery) is questionable, considering the history of Russian imperialism and the fact that Russia itself has never been colonised.

(Yes, I know this is political and off-topic, and I'm sorry for that, but I feel like some things can't be left unanswered. Mods, feel free to delete this if it's too inappropriate. While you're here, there are probably a few other posts to take a look at that strayed a bit far from the point of this thread.)

Reading about the "white master" and being from Poland, a country Russia tried to destroy from 1772 to 1989 (with brief break in 1918-1939 - when the attacked us as a part of agreement with nazis) is funny experience.

 

[lariko]

As far as I remember, Anna Shcherbakova found a way out of the circus, at least for a while, and did not attend this infamous Kremlin party. I did not see her sent to a labour camp for that or facing any other dire consequences. Just saying.

Back then, yes, but she's been to Kremlin recently. Back then, there was no clarity on competition participation and Scherbakova was the champion. Now, it's crystal clear. RusFed didn't waste its time with their reaction. Sukhalardze articulated it yesterday. There is no longer an option for Russian skaters to transfer to another country, save for a full change of citizenship and residence, preferably aged 13 and younger.

Hence, Russian skaters are now even firmer bound to RusFed and their country's government. Chances are, they will be paying homage even harder, even more often. ISU decisions support that, by limiting Russian participation to the minimum of the minimal and removing any hope of return to international stage for anyone currently aged 12 and above.

I want to emphasize again that the only high profile Russian skater who openly condemned the war immediately and put his career on the line for it--Mikhail Nazarychev--has lost his career, despite being an incredible unicorn, a male pair skater in his prime. Aside from a candid interview, he didn't appear on the competitive ice again.

The only athletes who succeeded in the aftermath are those who had nepotism working for them (Davis and Smolkin), and those with visionary parents/coaches who checked off everything possible, like Gartung, Volodin and Samodelkina. It's appalling to me that this level of savvy and intrigue is required to not compete for Russia.

I, again, call to the ISU to do the right thing and remove the RusFed from transfer releases' decision if they continue to prohibit Russians skate for Russia internationally. What's unfair isn't the removal of Russia from the international stage, it's this closing iron curtain on the athletes on both sides.

Russia should not have the veto on which person is sufficiently Armenian, Uzbek, Azeri or any other country to carry their flag on the ice.

 

[TontoK]

To me, that exposes the whole charade right there. Of course the AINs from Russia or the PDQs from Russia or the XYZs from Russia are Russian. What else would they be, Martians? Of course people in Russia are proud of the accomplishments of their countrymen in sports or other endeavors.

I was in the minority when this solution was first announced, in that I did not think that political positions were grounds for athlete exclusion. I haven't changed my mind about that.

I still think that the drug issue is the most important part of these sanctions, and if the IOC had the spine to do what was right long before this fiasco, a lot of the turmoil could have been avoided.

To summarize, and I understand the somewhat contradictory nature of my stance, I oppose sanctioning athletes for personally or publicly held political beliefs. I support banning entire sports federations for repeated and systematic drug violations. A dirty athlete is one thing; a dirty establishment aiding the dirty athlete is another.

 

[Mathman]

Even if the "neutrality" is a cynical farse, you cannot just officialy mock it and expect to benefit from it again.

I guess the point I wanted to make was this: I do not like cynical farces. I do not like pretense. I do not like pretending that Russian figure skaters are not Russian figure skaters. I do not like pretending that war is peace.

Most of all I do not like the mind set that searches about for imaginary slights, insults and grievances and then pretends that these fictions justify killing a hundred thousand people.

As for figure skating, if we want to hate someone or something, hate war. Hate self-aggrandizing dictators. Hate money-grubbing oligarchs and crooked politicians who seek to profit from other peoples' misery. Piling punishment on a few teenaged athletes as if they are to blame? Please.

As to the question of whether we can learn anything or do any better, well, we haven't in the last two million years, but I am looking forward optimistically to the 2030 Olympics to straighten things out.