ISU publishes the list of AINs allowed to take part in the Olympic Qualification

[TontoK]

Well, ISU was supposed to conduct their own independent review of this "neutrality" and not simply take any Ukranian-made sanctions list and run ahead with it. Ukraine can't possibly be simultaneously an interested party and the judge on this, because of course this negates any resemblance of fairness in the process from the very start.

The fact that the ISU also refuses to communicate the exact reasons for the refusals, and denies any right to appeal, obviously do no wonders to support the image of a transparent process and does not reflect well on the ISU themselves. The whole thing looks more like a marketing trick, actually a rather cruel joke on the athletes involved who have already had years of sanctions through no direct fault of their own.

Regarding all the discussions about athletes visiting government authorities, I think the point here is actually the hypocritical double-standard: those who attend events and shake hands with Bush / Trump can't be assumed to be supporting their actions, they just were there for very good reasons X that mean nothing and say nothing about the athletes' beliefs. But any Russian athlete who attends an official event or is pictured with Putin is immediately considered to endorse and support all his actions. Basically, starting from the same facts, the conclusions drawn are opposite, and this only shows the bias involved in the judgement.

I won't address your first two paragraphs because I have no idea how the ISU settled on the criteria for determining "neutrality."

I will speak to your final point, however. Not everyone has a double standard. I've voiced several times that I think banning athletes for privately or publicly expressed political beliefs... real or perceived... is a mistake, and I do not support that. Viewpoint discrimination is a slippery slope.

I'm not "pro-Russia" like many of our contributors, some of whom I suspect are the burner accounts for Tatiana Tarasova. But this approach is unjust, and the ISU deserves all the heartburn that is coming its way for doing something so foolhardy.

Now, my views surrounding the doping issue are completely different. The ISU and the IOC are moral cowards regarding this.

 

[Ziotic]

You are projecting your beliefs onto others and demanding that they act in accordance with your views or you will categorize them one way or the other.

In the highly unlikely event I were to be invited to the White House, I would gladly accept, and it would not matter who was the President. I would accept an invite from either Obama or Trump. It would be an honor in both cases.

Some individuals may choose not to attend an official reception/visit for any number of reasons. Others may choose to attend for any number of reasons.

Do I believe every person who attended a White House reception under Obama supports him? No. Do I believe every person who attends a White House reception under Trump supports him? No.

The reality is you are supporting them by attending. You can choose to believe that you aren’t silently supporting them but you are.

Atrocities are committed by people choosing to be complicity quiet.

All evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing.

 

[ice coverage]

... Do I believe every person who attended a White House reception under Obama supports him? No. Do I believe every person who attends a White House reception under Trump supports him? No.

Same here.

It apparently often is forgotten that Vincent also attended the 2022 White House celebration held for Team USA's Olympians and Paralympians from Beijing Games. (The same event also was for athletes from Tokyo Summer Games, which were delayed to 2021 because of pandemic.)
It is an unfortunate double standard that Vincent's attendance at the White House event hosted by Biden never seems to be equated with personal support for Biden. Yet some people are fixated on Vincent's attendance at the event hosted by Trump, and (unfairly) insist that it showed personal support for Trump. (Alexa K also attended both in 2022 and 2018, BTW.)
Vincent can be seen in the photo below of the 2022 White House visit, with Alysa, Kaitlin Hawayek, and Madison Hubbell next to him. (They are at the right side of this big group photo, fourth row from the top.)

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/president-joe-biden-first-lady-jill-biden-u-s-vice-news-photo/1395371791

Vincent also can be seen in Jason's video montage of the 2022 White House visit. In the same video: Alexa/Brandon; Alysa; Mariah; Hubbell/Donohue; Hawayek/Baker; plus Jason himself, of course. (Also Mitch Moyer.)

Jason Brown on Instagram: "Not your typical Wednesday!! 🤩🇺🇸 @teamusa x @whitehouse One of the coolest days & greatest honors being at the White House with the Summer and Winter Olympic/Paralympic Teams!! Thanks @joebiden & @kamalaharris for having

5,727 likes, 50 comments - jasonbskates on May 4, 2022: "Not your typical Wednesday!! 🤩🇺🇸 @teamusa x @whitehouse One of the coolest days & greatest honors being at the White House with the Summer and Winter Olympic/Paralympic Teams!! Thanks @joebiden & @kamalaharris for having us!! ✨...

www.instagram.com

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Russia has not bought rights to air the 2026 Olympics yet. It may never. Some small tv station bought isu rights. 2 figure skaters is hardly going to get them a lot of money and no money yet for ioc. So I’m not sure why ioc and isu have done this 2 Russian figure skaters thing. Russians may actually never see Petrosian live- legally

lol the people who least know or support Petrosian are the most likely to see her

I think you forget how revered figure skating in Russia is. I'm pretty sure they'll stream her performances in Russia (if she wins gold of course, seeing as how losing athletes don't really make for the best propaganda).

If I had to guess, it would be aired some time around the inevitable victory ceremony where Adelia shakes hands with Putin, gets a Mercedes Benz she isn't even able to drive yet, and is made to publicly profess support of the Russio-Ukranian war, whether she actually does or doesn't.

 

[SnowWhite]

I won't address your first two paragraphs because I have no idea how the ISU settled on the criteria for determining "neutrality."

I will speak to your final point, however. Not everyone has a double standard. I've voiced several times that I think banning athletes for privately or publicly expressed political beliefs... real or perceived... is a mistake, and I do not support that. Viewpoint discrimination is a slippery slope.

I'm not "pro-Russia" like many of our contributors, some of whom I suspect are the burner accounts for Tatiana Tarasova. But this approach is unjust, and the ISU deserves all the heartburn that is coming its way for doing something so foolhardy.

Now, my views surrounding the doping issue are completely different. The ISU and the IOC are moral cowards regarding this.

They aren't being banned for their political views though. Russia as a whole is banned, so all Russian athletes are banned automatically. Not being permitted is the default position. They are applying for a special neutral status to allow them to compete despite their country/Olympic committee being banned. Some were granted it, some were not.

Some may call that just semantics, but for me there is a difference. Of course, you can still disagree with the whole thing regardless. Personally, I wasn't thrilled with the AIN system to begin with, though I don't view this result as necessarily unfair to the individual athletes.

 

[gmyers]

I think you forget how revered figure skating in Russia is. I'm pretty sure they'll stream her performances in Russia (if she wins gold of course, seeing as how losing athletes don't really make for the best propaganda).

If I had to guess, it would be aired some time around the inevitable victory ceremony where Adelia shakes hands with Putin, gets a Mercedes Benz she isn't even able to drive yet, and is made to publicly profess support of the Russio-Ukranian war, whether she actually does or doesn't.

I know that 100% skating is so popular. I’m just not sure a broadcaster will buy Olympic rights for 1 or 2 skaters. And they certainly won’t try to buy any rights until after Beijing is settled. Gumennik is by no means a sure thing. Then with no gumennik you only have one skater! And there’s no hockey. So just based on there being no hockey no broadcaster may ever buy the winter Olympic rights

 

[TontoK]

They aren't being banned for their political views though. Russia as a whole is banned, so all Russian athletes are banned automatically. Not being permitted is the default position. They are applying for a special neutral status to allow them to compete despite their country/Olympic committee being banned. Some were granted it, some were not.

Some may call that just semantics, but for me there is a difference. Of course, you can still disagree with the whole thing regardless. Personally, I wasn't thrilled with the AIN system to begin with, though I don't view this result as necessarily unfair to the individual athletes.

I agree and I disagree.... but the points are so fine I don't really know how to differentiate.

For me, it's like this as a baseline point of view... If you're going to ban Russia, then ban them. I think they picked the wrong reason, but whatever.

If you're going to let athletes in under a non-Russian flag, then do it, but don't use political opinions as a control mechanism.

 

[AlexBreeze]

StepBuk's message.

 

[NaVi]

StepBuk's message.

I agree they should have been given a straight answer to why they don't qualify as neutral athletes.

But I don't think the video is very effective. The video cuts give me a headache. Bukin's voice and delivery(*sigh*) are annoying. I cringed when they tried and failed to end by speaking in unison. They analogize the ISU's decision now which they call unfair to the IOC's decision in 2018 when they're addressing the IOC and want them to intervene. Appealing to the IOC over the ISU is going to cause the the latter to dig in their heels if not handled carefully. There's an accusatory rhetorical question over shared values("Where are these values today?") when there's cynicism over some of those shared values( "fair competition" and "Sport should be outside of politics").

I agree with their core of their message on due process but there's so much in there that distracts from it. They should have included an example of how another federation has handled deciding the neutrality of Russian athletes. IIRC, the gymnasts who were denied neutral status were given reasons why. They should have mentioned how the first announcement mentioned the possibility of appeal while that seemingly has been rescinded.

Stepanova and Bukin attended a speech(essentially the Russian equivalent of the State of the Union) long after the start of the war which discussed the war and the annexation of territories. Then at least Bukin posted how it was an honor to be there. They're not getting neutral status no matter who they appeal to.

Из телеграм-канала Букина пропал пост о посещении послания президента к Федеральному собранию. ISU не одобрил нейтральный статус фигуристу

29 февраля 2024 года Букин вместе со своей партнершей по танцевальному дуэту Александрой Степановой посетил послание Владимира Путина Федеральному собранию.

www.sports.ru

A post about the President's address to the Federal Assembly has disappeared from Ivan Bukin's Telegram.
....
"An important event in the country's political life is the annual address of the President of the Russian Federation to the Federal Assembly, with the participation of the most significant figures in government, representatives of the public and experts from various industries. We are also present today. Thank you for the honor and trust!"

Presidential Address to the Federal Assembly

Vladimir Putin delivered his Address to the Federal Assembly. The ceremony took place in Gostiny Dvor, Moscow.

en.kremlin.ru

We supported our brothers and sisters; we supported their decision to be with Russia, and this year marks the tenth anniversary of the legendary Russian Spring. But even now, the energy, sincerity and courage of its heroes – the people of Crimea, Sevastopol, and the rebellious Donbass – their love for the Motherland, which they carried through generations, naturally makes one proud. This certainly inspires us and strengthens our confidence that we will overcome anything, that we will be able to do anything together.

....

And today, when our Motherland is defending its sovereignty and security, defending the lives of our compatriots in Donbass and Novorossiya, our citizens are playing the decisive role in this righteous struggle – their unity and devotion to our country, and our shared responsibility for its future.

They clearly and unequivocally demonstrated these qualities at the very beginning of the special military operation, when it was supported by the absolute majority of Russians. Despite the hardest trials and bitter losses, people have remained adamant in their choice and are reaffirming it by trying to do as much as possible for their country and for the common good.


....


We were not the ones who started the war in Donbass, but, as I have already said many times, we will do everything to put an end to it, eradicate Nazism and fulfil all the objectives of the special military operation, as well as defend sovereignty and ensure that our people are safe.

 

[TallyT]

Some may call that just semantics,

Semantics is very very important, a huge part of what makes language of any use whatsoever

but for me there is a difference.

I agree with your reading of it. The ones who have been selected are being granted a waiver from the country's exclusion, they are not entitled to it.

And Bukin should shut up and take his well-deserved medicine in some semblance of dignity. That video was embarrassingly whiny. Plus, asking the IOC head to but in and meddle in the ISU's decision (good or bad) for their personal benefit shows they think corrupt politicking is fine if it benefits them...

 

[gmyers]

future generations of Russian skaters must know what they are allowed to do so they do not waste their time! Why can’t isu just send Russian skaters a list of behavior that is acceptable?

 

[TallyT]

future generations of Russian skaters must know what they are allowed to do so they do not waste their time! Why can’t isu just send Russian skaters a list of behavior that is acceptable?

They shouldn't need one.

 

[gmyers]

They shouldn't need one.

They shouldn’t! But they must because of the plain fact you go into a rink and you may see Russian flags and not only Russian flags but things like coats of arms of Russia or maybe even Putin may show up! As he has in the past. If Putin showed up to Russian nationals the neutral Russian skaters must know the flee immediately and withdraw! Maybe not even Putin but Navka.

 

[TallyT]

They shouldn’t! But they must because of the plain fact you go into a rink and you may see Russian flags and not only Russian flags but things like coats of arms of Russia or maybe even Putin may show up! As he has in the past. If Putin showed up to Russian nationals the neutral Russian skaters must know the flee immediately and withdraw! Maybe not even Putin but Navka.

Oh come on, we saw the posts this skater tried to delete and hide.

 

[gmyers]

Oh come on, we saw the posts this skater tried to delete and hide.

I was thinking of Petrosian She deserves to have a manual given to her!. What if Navka did show up to the women’s free skate at Russian nationals in December? What should she do? It’s rare for Putin to go to a figure skating event but he has several times. Is it her obligation to leave immediately?

 

[Mathman]

This whole thing seems wrong-headed to me. If these are "Individual Neutral Athletes," why are only Russian and Belorussians eligible? Aren't there neutral individual athletes all over the world who might like to go to the Olympics?

There have to be rules. The rule is, every qialified member federation of the ISU is allowed to select a team of athletes to send to the Olympics, subject to various restrictions about minimum scores, how many "spots" that federation is allotted, etc. Russia and Belarus have been disqualified.

This seems like a backdoor where the ISU says, we didn't really mean it. We will hand pick a few teacher's pets that we especially cotton to, no others need apply.

This is not how the "rule of law" is supposed to work.

 

[midori green]

If the reason for the ban would happen to conclude, and the ISU ban is lifted prior to the qualification event, what is the protocol for Russian and Belarusian athletes then?

 

[AlexBreeze]

This whole thing seems wrong-headed to me. If these are "Individual Neutral Athletes," why are only Russian and Belorussians eligible? Aren't there neutral individual athletes all over the world who might like to go to the Olympics?

Because this is not neutrality. National Federation can't select "neutral" athletes.

 

[FlossieH]

If the reason for the ban would happen to conclude, and the ISU ban is lifted prior to the qualification event, what is the protocol for Russian and Belarusian athletes then?

I don't see things ending anytime soon, sadly. However, if it did end and the ban was lifted then I would expect them to have the same option as other countries which have not qualified spots - one entry in each discipline for the qualifier.

 

[gmyers]

All Russian troops aren’t leaving Ukraine by September! ISU is demanding Putin withdraw all Russian troops from Ukraine. There could even be peace deal between Russia and Ukraine but if it leaves Russian troops in some parts of Ukraine isu still may not change anything.