1996 Worlds: Men "rejudged"

[jersey1302]

Well..I had fun doing this. Posted on my X And blue sky too (@TheFreeSkate) follow me!
I re judged the 1996 world figure skating championships men’s event. I have old vhs tapes of many events in that era from 88-2003 give or take. As there was no levels back then and requirements were completely different, I only assigned base level or a level 1 to most spins and footwork. The final standings are based on only the skaters I was able to judge both programs. The standings in the short and long have skaters not in final standings because between my vhs tapes and YouTube I couldn’t find both. My judging app can only do singles events not pair or dance. Which one should I do next? I also plan to use it to judge current events too!

 

[jersey1302]

Final standings!

 

[Mathman]

I am not surprised to see Elvis Stojko come out on top. He did a quad combo in the LP which overcame a fall on the triple Axel in the SP. Under 6.0 judging his 7th place in the SP killed his overall chances, but not so much with IJS.

 

[Jontor]

I would love for you to do the rest of the 90s as well. And the Women too.

 

[gkelly]

Well..I had fun doing this. Posted on my X And blue sky too (@TheFreeSkate) follow me!
I re judged the 1996 world figure skating championships men’s event. I have old vhs tapes of many events in that era from 88-2003 give or take. As there was no levels back then and requirements were completely different, I only assigned base level or a level 1 to most spins and footwork. The final standings are based on only the skaters I was able to judge both programs. The standings in the short and long have skaters not in final standings because between my vhs tapes and YouTube I couldn’t find both. My judging app can only do singles events not pair or dance. Which one should I do next? I also plan to use it to judge current events too! View attachment 10578

Are you willing to share what you came up with for GOEs and program components?

 

[jersey1302]

I am not surprised to see Elvis Stojko come out on top. He did a quad combo in the LP which overcame a fall on the triple Axel in the SP. Under 6.0 judging his 7th place in the SP killed his overall chances, but not so much with IJS.

100% and the fall on the 3A doesn’t put him down to 7th in the short because the rest of his program was great

 

[jersey1302]

Are you willing to share what you came up with for GOEs and program components?

Of coarse. Now those are very subjective. GOE I took into account same things they do now. For jumps it was speed height flow on landing, scratchy or not, position in air , IF there was steps into jump vs only skating.. and it was a big if.. not many did footwork into jumps. It was a 54 second set up often lmao. I will attach my score sheets in the thread once I can screen shot them and maybe lay them in one image or two vs posting all separate

 

[jersey1302]

Here are all the score sheets of the more relevant placing of skaters

 

[gkelly]

Thanks for sharing!

Just a note:

The required spins in the men's short program, in 1996 and in 2026, are:
*Combination spin with all three positions and one change of foot (IJS code would always be CCoSp)
*Camel spin or sit spin with one change of foot (IJS code would be CCSp or CSSp)
*Flying spin in one position with no change of foot (IJS code FCSp, FSSp, or FUSp) (flying upright spin was never seen in the 1990s and almost never in IJS days but it is legal according to the requirements)

The only change in the required spins for the senior men's short program in the last 30 years is that it is no longer legal to do the same position (camel or sit) in both the required flying spin and the required change-foot spin in one position.

If any of those skaters had really done a CoSp, as you called several times -- i.e., a spin with at least two different positions and no change of foot -- it would have gotten no credit, a deduction in 6.0 days and an asterisk with no base value and no GOE in IJS days.

In free skates, CoSp would have been a legal spin.

Also note that the men's short program at the time required two step sequences (two different shapes out of straight line, circular, or serpentine). For most of the short programs you have only identified one step sequence, and for Candeloro's SP you didn't call any.

 

[jersey1302]

Thanks for sharing!

Just a note:

The required spins in the men's short program, in 1996 and in 2026, are:
*Combination spin with all three positions and one change of foot (IJS code would always be CCoSp)
*Camel spin or sit spin with one change of foot (IJS code would be CCSp or CSSp)
*Flying spin in one position with no change of foot (IJS code FCSp, FSSp, or FUSp) (flying upright spin was never seen in the 1990s and almost never in IJS days but it is legal according to the requirements)

The only change in the required spins for the senior men's short program in the last 30 years is that it is no longer legal to do the same position (camel or sit) in both the required flying spin and the required change-foot spin in one position.

If any of those skaters had really done a CoSp, as you called several times -- i.e., a spin with at least two different positions and no change of foot -- it would have gotten no credit, a deduction in 6.0 days and an asterisk with no base value and no GOE in IJS days.

In free skates, CoSp would have been a legal spin.

Also note that the men's short program at the time required two step sequences (two different shapes out of straight line, circular, or serpentine). For most of the short programs you have only identified one step sequence, and for Candeloro's SP you didn't call any.

Yeah so I counted one step cuz frankly 90% of the time I couldn’t even tell where one was never mind 2 and for the spin combos I did see some and called it as an element cuz many skaters had it.lol . I did count their change ones too. It’s wild to see the spins in that era. Most of the med barely held 3 revs and almost all except a few here and there were just basic position haha. I didn’t go 10000% in depth into the scoring,I basically scored what I saw. Oh good notice on Candeloro must of missed entering it. Def wouldn’t of changed that outcome though lol

 

[Karoltyna]

100% and the fall on the 3A doesn’t put him down to 7th in the short because the rest of his program was great

And his FS was Conquest of Paradise, the program without a single second of empty, with transitions more elaborate than some chsq now. Yes, I'm die hard Elvis fan and had a crush on him at 13...

 

[mrrice]

Todd was the clear winner. You have to see them live, in the rink. Todd was so fast and his edges so deep.

 

[jersey1302]

Todd was the clear winner. You have to see them live, in the rink. Todd was so fast and his edges so deep.

That’s what’s great to do this with current scoring. Elvis had speed like no other and impeccable body line. Huge jumps and the quad obviously highest scoring in event. Some of his spins actually had features too unlike any others because there was so many just basic positions. I also found Todd to be a bit reserved and rough with his skills in the fs

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Thanks for the analysis! Super interesting especially under today’s tech standards.

That was one of Stojko’s best frees and he deserved to podium (unfortunately ordinals and 6.0 screwed him over). But PCS wise I think you were too generous - he had a program well designed for him and his style and had a couple highlights like the spiral … but he didn’t show deep edges or range of body movements (you can only grasp your fingers into a fist and close your eyes “expressively” so many times). On top of that he doubled a jump so it wasn’t flawless either. Wouldn’t have given a 9.5 for composition (more like an 8.25/8.50 in my books with the lack of multi directional skating and transitions ) and for skating skills around a 7.75/8.00 (not deep edges, difficult toe steps here and there not many difficult turns like rockers or counters or brackets or twizzles). Presentation was great though (9.00/9.25 IMO). Technically blew everyone out of the water too. Definitely deserved to medal though and not surprised he made up ground if it had been judged under IJS.

 

[ladyjane]

I love Elvis's skates, think him to be one of the greats, but I don't agree with this. He had a bad SP, a good FS and it left him out of the medals. It happened thirty years ago.

IJS in whatever form changed this. He might have been champion with current IJS, he wouldn't have been with the former one (which made the quads less pronounced of it all, and let the falls count more. He even complained about the lack of quads due to IJS at the time).

I participated in a rescoring once, and it just made me realise how little I know about judging or calling.

It's a fun exercise though. That I will agree on.

 

[jersey1302]

Thanks for the analysis! Super interesting especially under today’s tech standards.

That was one of Stojko’s best frees and he deserved to podium (unfortunately ordinals and 6.0 screwed him over). But PCS wise I think you were too generous - he had a program well designed for him and his style and had a couple highlights like the spiral … but he didn’t show deep edges or range of body movements (you can only grasp your fingers into a fist and close your eyes “expressively” so many times). On top of that he doubled a jump so it wasn’t flawless either. Wouldn’t have given a 9.5 for composition (more like an 8.25/8.50 in my books with the lack of multi directional skating and transitions ) and for skating skills around a 7.75/8.00 (not deep edges, difficult toe steps here and there not many difficult turns like rockers or counters or brackets or twizzles). Presentation was great though (9.00/9.25 IMO). Technically blew everyone out of the water too. Definitely deserved to medal though and not surprised he made up ground if it had been judged under IJS.

See, I struggles how to judge pcs. Everyone had a lack of all that for skating skills so I had to give marks relative of the rest of the skaters too haha. I found Elvis body to be much more aligned and I tune to his style of skating with the program and he stayed strong the entire program. I don’t think hardly anyone had huge number of edge work and changes etc. There was no scratchy edges though and kept his speed and no hesitation etc which is why I gave him so high. I think realistically everyones skating skills should have been in the 6s or lower haha. I’m doing the 88 Olympics next. Men and women. I also found it hard to judge for step sequences and when they were actually doing on cuz sometimes I had no idea they even did one so I just marked everyone with 1 haha so it was at least even in my scoring. As for the double jump.. I mean.. that counted in the scoring as a double. That wouldt of effected pcs because it was no major error. Just less BV compared to a triple.

 

[fallingsk8er]

This is great! I love to watch the old 6.0 programs and think about how the elements would score in IJS.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This is great! I love to watch the old 6.0 programs and think about how the elements would score in IJS.

Likewise - to me you can really see who was ahead of their time by seeing if they would have gotten level 3s or 4s without the requirements. It’s why I loved Tim Goebel’s free in 2002 because he was doing transitions and field movements along with the quads. Or skaters like Kwan who spun in two directions. Or Slutskaya with the double Biellmann. Or Shen/Zhao’s forward outside death spiral. It didn't earn concrete levels or an specific number of extra points (it’s not like they suddenly would have been scored less without the originality) but it made them stand out and it was not easy to do.

 

[4everchan]

or Brasseur-Eisler ^^

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

At the time, I thought Kulik should have edged out Eldridge for the win. Your marks for Stojko's PCS are insanely high; in no universe should his LP PCS be 5 points higher than Kulik's and I don't think every jump element Stojko performed was a full point GOE better than Ilya's. That said, I appreciate your analysis and it's fun to revisit some of these old competitions. The 1995 Worlds Ladies event would be a fun one to do, where Bobek hung on to a medal by virtue of winning the SP but would have dropped considerably with absolute scoring.