Hersch on Johnny

[Spun Silver]

Let's face it - people aren't asking for him to substitute Lysacek (who scraped it into 3rd) it is the silver medalist people are thinknig should be dropped.

Actually that's what I WAS asking. I wouldn't want to deprive Mroz after that wonderful performance that IMO could/should have been gold, but I think there's a case to be made for sending Johnny over Evan.

if that is the case the sick skater in question should withdraw from the competition putting everyone on notice as to what has happened.

I can't really argue with you here, Ant. His poor performance at Nats puts USFS in a bad situation. But is it so certain he would have gotten a bye? Maybe there's a reason why he didn't make that choice (other than hope against hope)?

But instead he said, and I quote, "Face it Johnny: you weren't good enough." That's just being a mean bully for the sake of being a mean bully.

Or selling papers, which is no better. Jerk.

Bekalc, I'm not disputing you on the basis of your opinion or even your reading of the facts (although it seems you are at least somewhat mistaken) - it's your eagerness to condemn (like Hersh) that disturbs me. The pressures on these skaters are huge. I think they all deserve the benefit of the doubt. There will always be paid wolves like Hersh to devour them, do we have to?

 

[Mathman]

Also, what he said was not untrue! Johnny simply wasn't good enough at Nationals to make the Worlds team--period.

No, that is not true. Johnny's SKATING was not good enough.

To say that JOHNNY was not good enough changes the focus of the article away from skating and turns it into an attack on Johnny's character.

 

[dizzydi7]

Hersch is a jerk and really should be ignored.

My opinion of Johnny's situation is that he made a very poor decision to compete at Nationals if indeed he did not have time to train because of his previous illness. As others have said, he should have withdrawn and then requested a bye to worlds. Therefore, it's only fair that he suffers the consequences of his poor decision. It is totally unfair to expect someone to give up their earned spot on the team for Johnny's poor judgement.

Johnny made the decision to skate at the Korean charity event. Whether he is good friends with Yuna does not change the issue. It was HIS decision and he should take full responsibility for it.

I look at it his way----Ashley Wagner, Caroline Zhang, etc. all wanted to be at Worlds this year. They didn't make the team. Either did Weir.

He needs to get over it and move on.

By the way, I've always loved Johnny's skating and really feel he is among the most talented skaters in the World.

Dizzy

 

[decker]

I made a decision when the free skate went unrecoverably south (which I refused to acknowledge until the fall) that I wouldn't complain about the Worlds team, regardless of who was on it. Unless they went cuckoo for cocoa puffs and left off Jeremy or something.

I'm just glad I don't have to make these choices. I also am glad I don't have to balance all the obligations that a competitive skater has to balance, especially those who are not from wealthy families. These things are not black-and-white.

I will say flat out that I can't believe Johnny would have been selected if he withdrew. His history with the federation doesn't support that assumption IMHO.

I'm just bummed. Doggone it, he finally got in all 3 combinations. With # GOE. Another good thing that that the nattering nabob of figure skating declined to acknowledge.

Susan

 

[Mathman]

Johnny made the decision to skate at the Korean charity event. Whether he is good friends with Yuna does not change the issue. It was HIS decision and he should take full responsibility for it.

Exactly. Johnny did not ask my opinion or Hersh's opinion or the collective opinion of the Internet when he decided to do the show in Korea.

He does not need our opinions of his decision now.

The slots for Worlds are not chosen only by the outcome at Nationals.

Except that, yeah, basically they are.

 

[museksk8r]

Anyway, what does Hersh get out of kicking the boy when he's down? Does he think this is what his reader's want? Why doesn't he write about Brandon's wonderful skate?

Johnny tried his best. Hersh is the one who embarrassed himself.

I so agree! Phil is such a trash journalist. Hersh is an excellent example of the old adage that some people really would come off as more intelligent if they just kept their mouths shut.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

The guy who wrote this really needs to get a life.

Fine, Johnny was far from fantastic at nats and maybe one can say he doesn't deserve a spot on the world team (which is dabteable), but slagging him off for honoring his commitments is just plain nasty.
I admire Johnny for going to Korea. I know I'm upset when I find out a skater I'm looking forward to seeing at a show or competition isn't there (even though I understand), so I think it's great of Johnny to perform all the same.

 

[museksk8r]

[/I]
It's always been the position of the USFSA that if you want a bye, you better not be skating and touring while your "injured/sick" if you healthy enough to skate in shows your healthy enough to compete in Nationals. Period.

This reminds me of Nicole Bobek's situation in 1996 when she was the defending US Champion and reigning World bronze medalist at Nationals. She placed 3rd in the SP at '96 Nationals, but had to withdraw before the LP because her injured ankle flared up again during the LP warm-up. When she petitioned for a World team spot, the committee voted in Tara Lipinski over Nicole Bobek by 1 person's vote. An explanation later revealed that Bobek's decision to skate in a Nutcracker On Ice show rather than heal her ankle before Nationals was the major reason for her being left home. As a result, Bobek seemed to lose any confidence and drive she had for the rest of that season. She also switched into new boots/skates that caused her to have a meltdown of epic proportions at the Centennial On Ice championship. Lipinski went on to Worlds and had a disastrous showing in the SP to place 23rd, nearly not making the cut for the LP, which she fought back in to finish 15th overall.

 

[antmanb]

I look at it his way----Ashley Wagner, Caroline Zhang, etc. all wanted to be at Worlds this year. They didn't make the team. Either did Weir.

He needs to get over it and move on.

Dizzy

I've not read all the articles to do with US nationals, but i suspect that Johnny is well on his way to getting over it and moving on to plans for the Olympic season. The people who could probably do with taking your advice is the fans and haters who are still coming to terms with it all.

Ant

 

[museksk8r]

Ok but if that is the case the sick skater in question should withdraw from the competition putting everyone on notice as to what has happened. Let the skaters skate and then let a committee decide who should go. IMO it is unfair to let all the skaters do the competition, everyone sees where they have come, and then turn round and say - actually one (or more skaters) weren't quite up to scratch because x, y, or z reasons. Despite your silver medal and our three spots at worlds, you don't get to go? How demoralizing for the skaters who are trying to get to the top? The message that would be sent out is - not only do you have to skate the best on the day but you have to skate the best on the day and beat the ghosts of the skaters of the past too?

Is it such a judged sport that selection to big competitions should also be judged?



I am a huge Johnny fan and I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that he chose to get sick. Regardless of the illness or any of the external factors, the fact remains he placed 5th at nationals. He wasn't close to gettting the third place, he wasn't sitting in fourth. Let's face it - people aren't asking for him to substitute Lysacek (who scraped it into 3rd) it is the silver medalist people are thinknig should be dropped. I think that would be a huge mistake and would sent the wrong mesasge to the young skaters trying to make it big.

The message would be - the old guard will always be sent before you regardless of how you skate in your competitions. The question would then be - how do you even become part of the "old guard" if the current old guard is always untouchable?

Ant

Very well said, Ant. I agree with all of the above. I really wish the team could have been Abbott, Mroz, and Weir, but Johnny unfortunately couldn't deliver . . . it's a real shame! His current condition is very alarming from my observation of his appearance on video and maybe the best thing for him right now is to have plenty of time off to get his health at a suitable condition and to get his head back together. I really feel bad for him! Get well, Johnny!

 

[Tinymavy15]

Why can't people just be nice. Congratulate Mroz, who skated beautifully and our new Champion Jeremy and move on. JOhnny must be very disipointed by the way things turned out, but I think it shows how much of a better person he has become that he would not withdraw, even though he was clearly in no condition to compete. If he had withdrawn, he might have gotten a bye like Tanith and Ben did. But he was the bigger person and did not want to give up.

 

[ManyCairns]

I
Gosh, thing is, I'd be so exhausted of it all if I were Johnny? He's only human and I'm not sure how long he can fight this fight. When the truth is, he's never had the real support from his home corner. I'm starting to lose count how many times the federation has screwed him over (example: last years Nationals), it's got to be depressing and despiriting when you feel that no matter what you do you cannot win. And, ha, only then to have to bear the burden and deal with the pressure and expectations when they suddenly need you and you are their only hope (example: last year's Worlds). So he handled it and saved their face. Only then to get the gratitude he did now, meaning zero. It's like a rollercoaster, his career.

It's especially ironic here because I'm sure he hated the idea of leaving his own fate in someone else's hands, however underprepared for this event he was. So he decided to compete anyway, because let's face it, him and the USFSA are not exactly bff. He did his job, you can argue about the wisdom of not withdrawing or whatever but. He did what he felt he had to under the circumstance and however it went, whatever the results, as a last resort asked for a spot anyway, as he had every right to do.

Honestly, Johnny was so completely and totally robbed of what should have been his 4th national title last year it's mindboggling. But he kept right on skating and was gracious in a "defeat" that was based on a technicality and questionable judging imo. This season hasn't been as stellar as last, but still no slouch by any means. Solid if not golden GP results.

For other skaters, the right choice might have been to w/d from nationals and request the bye from that position. But, really, what history of support from USFSA and the culture of TPTB has Johnny had that would indicate that he would have a good chance of getting the bye w/o competing? Also, if he hadn't skated, there'd be many who would say he wimped out and didn't have heart and didn't have what it takes to be a competitor and so on.

Finally, by all indications he really thought he could skate through it.

It is ironic that his bronze medal last year was the only Worlds medal for the US, and now he won't be utilizing one of the spots he kept secure.

Hope Johnny can rise above and have a magical season next year, and end his competitive career strongly.

 

[antmanb]

For other skaters, the right choice might have been to w/d from nationals and request the bye from that position. But, really, what history of support from USFSA and the culture of TPTB has Johnny had that would indicate that he would have a good chance of getting the bye w/o competing? Also, if he hadn't skated, there'd be many who would say he wimped out and didn't have heart and didn't have what it takes to be a competitor and so on.

Well since we're into the world of Hypotheticals I think based on his GP performances including Bronze at the final and his Bronze at worlds last year, there would have been no question of sending him to worlds - using their own criteria. I suppose, ironically it would have been Lysacek's place at greater risk from that assessment on the basis that he wasn't at worlds the year before and his GP season was comparatively poor.

If he had withdrawn there might have been more of a name him to the team but insist on him having a test skate a la Kwan prior to the Olympics. Or send him to 4CC to duke it out for a place on the world team.

Either way i don't think there would have been any question of him getting some kind of bye if he had withdrawn. Certainly a withdrawal prior to the start of the event rather than after the SP.

Ant

 

[dorispulaski]

I would bet that Johnny isn't feeling the USFS love at all. If I were him, I'd find it impossible to trust them to send me to Worlds on a bye.

In fact, while we're being hypothetical, I would not be surprised if he did put out feelers of how a bye would be received and that he didn't get a positive feeling about the answers. That's the only reason that I can give for his skating when anyone could see by looking at him that he wasn't well.

 

[Winnipeg]

It would not seem so bad for Weir to be denied a bye if it were not for the fact that Beblin/Agosto were given a bye. Why did they get one and not Weir?

If the team was based on Nationals only....................that would leave B/A out too. If the team decsision considered other factors...........then why not Weir?

 

[Winnipeg]

One more comment - I guess the federation should really choose the team based on who they think will perform the best to acquire more spots for 2010 (other than the Champ gets an automatic green light). On the other hand, the more subjectivity entered into the decision, the more the criticism of ultimate choices.

 

[Spun Silver]

I would bet that Johnny isn't feeling the USFS love at all. If I were him, I'd find it impossible to trust them to send me to Worlds on a bye.

In fact, while we're being hypothetical, I would not be surprised if he did put out feelers of how a bye would be received and that he didn't get a positive feeling about the answers. That's the only reason that I can give for his skating when anyone could see by looking at him that he wasn't well.

This is what I sense too. But I guess we won't know... until Johnny's next journal!

 

[stevlin]

a bye?

It would not seem so bad for Weir to be denied a bye if it were not for the fact that Beblin/Agosto were given a bye. Why did they get one and not Weir?

If the team was based on Nationals only....................that would leave B/A out too. If the team decsision considered other factors...........then why not Weir?

I believe that Belbin/Agosto got the bye because they are last years Nat. champion. Johnny was the silver medalist at Nationals.

 

[Winnipeg]

I believe that Belbin/Agosto got the bye because they are last years Nat. champion. Johnny was the silver medalist at Nationals.

True, good point, but I recall that was very controversial and it was so close as to really being a tie. Performances post national would favor Weir over Lycacek?

 

[Tonichelle]

Honestly I think both Weir and Lysacek's days in the USFSA's good graces are over. Johnny was their poster child until he started speaking his mind rather loudly... and Evan didn't do so well after they held him up at nationals last year... I think they sent a clear message to both with the way they judged this nationals. It's not the Evan and Johnny show anymore.