Ladies LP - actual competition | Page 32 | Golden Skate

Ladies LP - actual competition

Rachael .....( 173.78 ) ..........( 162.83 ) .......( 10.95 )

Rachael skated better at Nationals than she skated here. She only had 5 triples in the long, and well there was the underrotated 3/3 in the short issue as well.

Quite frankly Rachael mentioned the fact that she's willing to make the changes to her program necessary to compete, so I bet that since she was getting hit with edge calls that she'll likely replace 2 of her lutzs with loops and help herself out tremendously there. Going back to her old program will help as well. I think maybe Flatt's scores were a little bit inflated, but anywhere near to the extent Alissa's was.

I know you're used to it,. but that's the point... sometimes things don't work out.
So many well-trained skaters from various countries... sometimes a short break from being in the top 5-6 is just normal... the other countries are not filled with hacks...

Look, I recognize we are going to have our downtime. But I still expect the USFSA to send the best teams to worlds and reward the skaters at Nationals who deliver. They didn't do that and because of it, we have less of chance of getting 3 spots.

So for me it's this. IF Alissa had let's say skated well in the long program 5 triples, I would have accepted Alissa on the team and would have lived with the results of Worlds. I wouldn't be sitting here complaining saying Whhhhyyyy!

But what ticks me off is that they held her up, (and don't mention the fall on the lutz in the short because Flatt doubled her salchow in the long. ) when two other skaters really delivered. And these two skaters have shown themselves to be much stronger under pressure than Alissa is.

Now if Zhang/Flatt had went to worlds and not gotten 3 spots, I could have accepted that too. But what I cannot accept is the USFSA inflating the scores of their most inconsistent skater at the expense of their two most reliable under pressure skaters.
 
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I know you're used to it,. but that's the point... sometimes things don't work out.
So many well-trained skaters from various countries... sometimes a short break from being in the top 5-6 is just normal... the other countries are not filled with hacks...

But it will come back. Canada had a few years in the 90's with one lady barely cracking the top 20, and NOBODY qualifying for the '98 Olypmics... and now look, a mere 11 years later, here we are beating the US in a major competition (...i say this mostly tongue in cheek...)

It's great for Canada to have 2 strong and beautiful Ladies' skaters... but make no mistake, the US still has plenty more depth... behind Joannie & Cynthia, we have maybe 3-4 skaters close to Lacoste's level (a significant tier down), and then it drops off.. you in the US seem to have innumerable skaters at a very close level... you just have to wait a bit for the next star to emerge *shrugs*

Well I think our expectations were really high. See once you have so many talented ladies, you expect a lot of success at the international level. Rachael, Mirai, Ashley, and Caroline are pretty talented and could score really well. And there are others. With so much talent, of course a lot of us assumed that we'd easily clinch 3 spots. But I guess even talent takes time to nourish. So, should we set our sights on the post-2010 Olympics period? Is that when all this talent in ladies finally going to bear fruit?
 
Wow, there are so many great post and great ideas on here. If only someone from USFSA was reading. Totally agree about the camps. Some people mentioned starting those after nationals. They were saying to invite Brian & Linda & Zayek. That would be a great idea. I have to agree with what some people on here have said in the past, we seem to be a season or to behind the front runners. I don't know how that happen. I don't know if we can make up the difference by next year.

I honestly thought the US fell behind because it has been building up for years. I didn't follow skating until 2006 nationals but going back and rewatching the old comps, it seemed like Sasha was the only US skater who was prepared for the code. She was doing combo spins before that but still, Sasha was more than prepared.

From what I gathered, a memo was sent out about the new scoring system and I felt that the US didn't take it seriously enough. Did USFSA think that ISU was bluffing? Michelle was still skating 6.0-programs, but to be fair, her hip was battered enough that she probably couldn't do CoP programs and make it to 2005 nationals. Additionally, with the nature of the Code, many of the US skaters have poor technique/ basic skating. Kimmie was one of the few whose technique was decent to get by. I've been told that there are US skaters at the lower ranks who have technique but almost never make it and that confuses the bejesus out of me.

Prior to the economic crisis, USFSA could have alloted resources to their prospects (even with the decline in interest). Wasn't Katy Taylor touted as one of the next to inherit the throne after Sasha and Michelle? USFSA could have invested more in Katy Taylor and Kimme. I feel like USFSA just leave their skaters to fend for themselves and expect them to win. Korea and Japan provided Mao and Yuna with everything they needed to have their talent cultivated - from elite coaches to choreographers. Korea outsourced the heck out of the Canadians to ensure Yuna got what she needed.

Yes, USFSA gives envelopes out but USFSA could be checking out skaters' progresses throughout the season. USFSA could theoritically intervene and pressured Mirai to stop training her her stress fracture and could have sent Caroline to work with a technician instead. She's talented, I'm sure she would benefit from working with the likes of Artunian.

The camps they have is a pure joke from how Johnny describes them to be like. Skaters should be out on the rink with technicians/ spin doctors watching over them like hawks. You know, I think USFSA should bring back compulsories as something to master in order to become a senior or a junior (better to start younger). Harsh? Yes, very much indeed but it'll pay off.
 
It's true, Mao wasn't her usual self but I don't know if she was physically ill. I feel like she wasn't there mentally at all and I think several factors like her coach not being there (even though she's performed well without a coach before) and the size of the rink and other little things all added up and clouded her mind.

The Japanese media reported that Mao injured her right knee in the middle of January and she could not practice her jumps.
The information comes from people working with Mao though, not from Mao herself. Mao didn't want to comment on that - when asked about her condition she replied "It's a secret.". She promised to skate better at Worlds, though.

I think it would make sense, as Mao's attitude towards this competition was different than usual. Usually in her interviews when asked about her goals for the competition she replied that she wants to "skate perfect", or to skate with a fighting spirit... This time before 4CC she said that her goal is to skate as best as she can, she what she is not able to do, and work on those things before Worlds. At the time I thought that she simply doesn't want to peak here and plans to go easy in order to peak at Worlds, but the more I think about it, the more it sounds to me like she was aware that she wan not at 100% of her ability.

Anyway, I hope she's fine now. The jumps that she feels comfortable with were good - 3A, 3F and 3L were huge! It's her "new" jumps that gave her trouble - 3S, fixed Lutz and 3-3 that needed working on.
 
As a Canadian, I find all this "panic" about the state of US ladies' skating rather amusing (or annoying, depending on my mood)... Your ladies still at the *very* worst make up the 3rd strongest team internationally (Canada, amazingly, having outperformed yours at this competition :eek:)

So you're down to 2 spots for a couple of years, maybe. Soooo many strong young skaters at a similar level... will only serve to push each other, all the more for having one fewer opening... and one or two will break through. They are all so young! The timing for American Olympic Glory this time around seems a little off... OH WELL... you've had your share!!!!


Yea, we have, but when you've had your share it just makes you hungry for more.
 
But what I cannot accept is the USFSA inflating the scores of their most inconsistent skater at the expense of their two most reliable under pressure skaters.

Well, I don't really know if consistency should be a factor in judging a skater at Nationals.

Take Ashley Wagner. She is less consistent than Rachael and Caroline, but had she done great in the short, her long program would have been enough to propel her to national champion.

Would you be horrified with her being sent to Worlds because she tends to be inconsistent?
 
Never thought i would ever see Americans looking to Canada for how they train their skaters, including the ladies. Joannie,Patrick, Dube and Davison, and Virtue and moir are great leaders for other Canadian skaters behind them. Iam so thrilled Cynthia Phaneuf is coming back strong. She is beautiful to watch when she is almost clean, something about her skating or body type reminds me a little of Oksana Baiul when she grew. Her sp and long made me really happy. I enjoyed joannie, Cynthia and Mao's free the most. Iam not sure why but Yu na kim's free and Zhangs didn't do much for me although i respect them as skaters. Zhang's spins are amazing though.

I appreciate the fact that the Canadians embraced the code, but kept ol' old school skating skills alive. I love watching Joannie and Patrick skate for their edges alone. It's like butter! Sheesh, even the Japanese Federation have some sort of camp where skaters are training together and working out the kinks before going off on their own.

For me, I think the 3 spots are nice for the US but I'm not going to be butthurt if the US only have 2. I get that there's a tradition but I don't think hell is freezing over if the US doesn't come home with a medal. I personally don't like to see skaters' potential to be wasted, nor do I want to see beautiful edging become a thing of the past. Jumps can be beautiful to watch when done correctly. Artistry isn't the only thing of beauty. Gosh, of all the traditions to break, having good technique and basics should not be one of them.

What I love to see?

Brian Boitano become the national coordinator (yes, like gymnastics) and USFSA outsource Trixie Schuba to teach figures at the figures. I'd love to see Dorothy Hamill come out to teach figures at camps.
 
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Maybe this is just the Yu Na and Mao era. Once they retire, someone new will emerge. Maybe it will be someone from their countries, or from the US, or wherever. This is just awful timing for US ladies skating and I have all but given up any sort of hope for three spots back. I'll just accept that we'll only be able to send two women to the Olympics and will likely miss out on a medal. However, Americans seem to be having better luck in men and dance and it will be interesting to see if NBC chooses to turn its attention to those disciplines in the Olympic Season. Two weekends for Spokane Nationals, and they could give both disciplines prime time exposure (traditionally in the US, the ladies get the prime time spotlight and the rest have either been shown in the afternoon or on cable).
 
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Brian Boitano has taken an active role within the USFSA, as he's coordinating a mentorship program of sorts (not unlike what he's doing with Alissa) with the alum... he's getting a lot of support, from what I hear, from the other skaters. Nothing official from the USFSA though (big surprise there, eh)
 
The Japanese media reported that Mao injured her right knee in the middle of January and she could not practice her jumps.
The information comes from people working with Mao though, not from Mao herself. Mao didn't want to comment on that - when asked about her condition she replied "It's a secret.". She promised to skate better at Worlds, though.

I think it would make sense, as Mao's attitude towards this competition was different than usual. Usually in her interviews when asked about her goals for the competition she replied that she wants to "skate perfect", or to skate with a fighting spirit... This time before 4CC she said that her goal is to skate as best as she can, she what she is not able to do, and work on those things before Worlds. At the time I thought that she simply doesn't want to peak here and plans to go easy in order to peak at Worlds, but the more I think about it, the more it sounds to me like she was aware that she wan not at 100% of her ability.

Anyway, I hope she's fine now. The jumps that she feels comfortable with were good - 3A, 3F and 3L were huge! It's her "new" jumps that gave her trouble - 3S, fixed Lutz and 3-3 that needed working on.


This is what I feared. It was strong of her to compete anyway, but I fear that she will not be 100% for worlds. Poor Mao :(
 
Well, I don't really know if consistency should be a factor in judging a skater at Nationals.

Take Ashley Wagner. She is less consistent than Rachael and Caroline, but had she done great in the short, her long program would have been enough to propel her to national champion.

Would you be horrified with her being sent to Worlds because she tends to be inconsistent?

Well I was kind of wondering if Wagner's jumps would have been ratified if international judges were judging her. But with fully rotated jumps No I wouldn't be horrified if Wagner placed ahead. Let's point out that inconsistency very much did Wagner in.

However, I'm screaming about consistency in this case because the USFSA blatently held Alissa up.... With huge PCS, and I'm saying why the heck would they hold up their most inconsistent skater. It's a nonsensical thing to do.
 
This is just not right

I can't believe Mao had the highest score in LP with two double; underrotated; wrong edge jumps. There were plenty of skaters got hurt by judges so they could to put Mao in the podium.
 
Well I was kind of wondering if Wagner's jumps would have been ratified if international judges were judging her. But with fully rotated jumps No I wouldn't be horrified if Wagner placed ahead. Let's point out that inconsistency very much did Wagner in.

However, I'm screaming about consistency in this case because the USFSA blatently held Alissa up.... With huge PCS, and I'm saying why the heck would they hold up their most inconsistent skater. It's a nonsensical thing to do.

Well, you know, I actually have a lot of respect for Alissa, and I am mad that the judges have dragged her into this controversy.

I mean I would have been really happy to have her get silver or bronze. She has totally crashed her programs in the past and it was good to see that her skating moving in a positive direction.

But now that she was held up, there's a lot of resentment and exaggerated expectations of her. Not to mention the suspicion that will cloud her future Nationals with people always trying to decipher whether she is being held up or not. I bet her people have already read all of the articles decrying the result and even she must have gotten a hold of one or two of them. The whole thing is just unpleasant. The only thing I fear is that someone in her training team might actually believe that she deserved those scores. I would hate for Alissa to have a distorted view of her skating accomplishments.
 
I can't believe Mao had the highest score in LP with two double; underrotated; wrong edge jumps. There were plenty of skaters got hurt by judges so they could to put Mao in the podium.

Err, can you point out which jumps Mao did on the wrong edge? She double ONE jump and popped the other, btw. I don't know how I feel about Mao's placement yet.

I'm waiting for the protocols. Are they already up?
 
Well, you know, I actually have a lot of respect for Alissa, and I am mad that the judges have dragged her into this controversy.

I mean I would have been really happy to have her get silver or bronze. She has totally crashed her programs in the past and it was good to see that her skating moving in a positive direction.

But now that she was held up, there's a lot of resentment and exaggerated expectations of her. Not to mention the suspicion that will cloud her future Nationals with people always trying to decipher whether she is being held up or not. I bet her people have already read all of the articles decrying the result and even she must have gotten a hold of one or two of them. The whole thing is just unpleasant. The only thing I fear is that someone in her training team might actually believe that she deserved those scores. I would hate for Alissa to have a distorted view of her skating accomplishments.

I want to make it clear that I feel sorry for Alissa too. It's not her fault, and I think the USFSA did her a disservice. A Bronze medal and winning the short program would have been a huge boast for her I think and the message we will reward you if you deliver.

Now she's going to have more pressure than she's ever had in her life, and she's clearly not great at dealing with pressure, and I just can't understand why the USFSA would think this was a great thing to do to her.
 
I can't believe Mao had the highest score in LP with two double; underrotated; wrong edge jumps. There were plenty of skaters got hurt by judges so they could to put Mao in the podium.

which jump was underrotated? and which wrong edge jumps are you talking about?
 
I meant their chances to be named onto the Olympic team. 3 spots are better than 2 for all those girls fighting to be on the team. Pretty simple to understand. Capito?

Better how? What does it matter how many of these girls go to the Olympics if they all have zero chance of medalling? Comprende, vous?

And I understand you're a Sasha bot

You disgust me.

Andalusia, who is your favorite skater? Whoever it is, I'll just call you (that skater)-bot for the rest of your life. Enjoy.
 
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However, what happened at Nationals was even though Alissa had an extremely poor free skate

She fell once and doubled a jump. The rest was exquisite. Go back and watch it again, unless you have a definition of "extremely poor" which is outside the realm of common sense.

Let's take a look at the degree of inflation between National scores and 4CC scores.

................. Nationals ............. 4CC ............. inflation

Alissa ........( 178.06 ) ...........( 159.81 ) .......( 18.25 )

Rachael .....( 173.78 ) ..........( 162.83 ) .......( 10.95 )

Caroline .....( 171.08 ) ..........( 171.22 ) ........( -0.14 )

It seems like the judges at Nationals were very accurate in their scoring. :biggrin:

................... at least for Caroline. :sheesh:

Caroline did worse at Nationals. Rachael and Alissa did better at Nationals.

You just created the stupidest analysis in the entire thread.
 
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