I think it is explainable in that USFSA probably looked over the middling scores from everyone from the rest of the season and bought into the hype that if Alissa could get her jumps down, she'd be the top US lady, something I've seen many proclaim on message boards all season. If she could even hit four good triples in the LP consistently she'd be much more competitive but it's not happening. Does anyone know if she's able to get it done in practice? Does she just hit all five like nothing outside of competition?
Ladies LP - actual competition
- Thread starter beep_beep
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I think it is explainable in that USFSA probably looked over the middling scores from everyone from the rest of the season and bought into the hype that if Alissa could get her jumps down, she'd be the top US lady, something I've seen many proclaim on message boards all season. If she could even hit four good triples in the LP consistently she'd be much more competitive but it's not happening. Does anyone know if she's able to get it done in practice? Does she just hit all five like nothing outside of competition?
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
No, what it SHOULD be is something which wouldn't be allowed on the forum.
ITA - You are used to it but it shouldn't be taken for granted. Look at Russia!
IMO the judges did what they did at nationals. And the likelihood is whomever was sent to Worlds, US would probably only get 2 ladies for the Games. Alissa's quality of skating is so much higher than the other 2 and who's to say that Caroline would be spot on at the Worlds and that Alissa won't?
worse? that's a very interesting word you choose to use. Caroline did just fine at nationals, actually she skated her best all season at the nationals.
At US nationals Alissa had a sloppy loop that got plus goe. She had a fall, no ratified triple and no better then decent jumping pass in the second half. She was cautious though out and after the fall she never really got it back together. Even her non jumping passes seemed off (except for the layback).
At 4cc's Alissa got better as the program went on and still got nowhere near the PCS's that she was given in the nationals lp. At 4cc Rachael started out good but lost momentum in the middle and she never fully regained control of her program. Still look at the pcs difference. Not remotely as far a part as nationals.
ANW I think by worse it's meant in comparison then to what caroline just did at 4ccs. She was faster and had a confidence to her that she hasn't has in her competitive skating since before 2008 nationals.
At 4cc's Alissa got better as the program went on and still got nowhere near the PCS's that she was given in the nationals lp. At 4cc Rachael started out good but lost momentum in the middle and she never fully regained control of her program. Still look at the pcs difference. Not remotely as far a part as nationals.
ANW I think by worse it's meant in comparison then to what caroline just did at 4ccs. She was faster and had a confidence to her that she hasn't has in her competitive skating since before 2008 nationals.
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What an idiotic reply. So people should only bother competing at the Olympics if they can win a medal? Tell that to Tugba Karademir.
You're obviously a bot, as opposed to a fan, if you truly believe Sasha is the best hope for the American ladies in 2010. For example, I love Caroline, but I'm not delusional enough to think she doesn't have a ton of problems she has to work through before she can reach the top.
And you disgust me too, hun. Feel free to call me what you will - I don't give a toss.
I agree with you. Sure, winning and competition is a huge part of sport. But are the life experiences one receives from participating in said sport any less valuable? No. I think sports in certain areas are pushed for the wrong reasons. Participating in any type of sport is vital to development, not only physically but emotionally and socially. If nothing else, at least it promotes a healthy lifestyle. Winning is huge, I'm not denying that, but it is certainly not everything.
the pcs was a bit high at national for Alissa, Rachel, Mirai and Ashley.
This year as well as last year the USFSA followed the international in giving Caroline Pc's scores at national's a bit lower though.
The rest of the skaters they just gave them what they wanted.
Anyway as far as worlds, the choice is made. Hopefully they can do it , if not.
Well 1 maybe two spots is gone/,
This year as well as last year the USFSA followed the international in giving Caroline Pc's scores at national's a bit lower though.
The rest of the skaters they just gave them what they wanted.
Anyway as far as worlds, the choice is made. Hopefully they can do it , if not.
Well 1 maybe two spots is gone/,
Why should the 4CC have any reason to prop Caroline up?
Caroline didn't do worse at either competition. In the SP at Nats, she had a ratified 3-3 but mistake on 2axel (I still see nothing whatsoever wrong with the layback spin to deserve L2). In the SP here, she got a downgrade on 3-3. I think it's obvious the two LPs were both clean and just about as perfect as she can be.
Word. So why should Caroline be treated any different?
Of course Alissa could have the skate of her life at Worlds, nobody can see into the future....
However, the whole point behind deciding the World/Olympic spots at Nationals is to get an idea of who can deliver under pressure and who cannot deliver under pressure.
At Nationals it was Rachael and Caroline who delivered under the pressure doing good short programs and 6 triple long programs.
In contrast Alissa had a good short program and a 3 triple long program...
If we go into Alissa's entire career we can see that Alissa has a history, a whole history of faltering under pressure. In contrast, if we look at Rachael/Caroline's career we see skaters who are very good at handling pressure, they are World Junior Champs for a reason.
I agree that "IF" Alissa could get her jumps straight she'd be the top US lady. But don't you think she should have to show us that she can get her jumps competitive before they made her the top US lady? Don't you think it's only fair to judge people based on what they do, and not on their "potential." That's the whole freaking cruz of this matter.
Alissa might never, ever get it together. If she had gotten it together at Nationals, I would have been all for her winning the Championship and going to Worlds.
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- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
No it doesn't. Also take into consideration they didn't skate that bad. But I am keeping positive.
I don't feel Alissa was necessarily favored at Nationals. I think the judges gave her a chance. I feel like this is America and USFSA has faith in her. I like to think that everyone is given their chance in America. I feel like she's worked hard and she has overcome a lot of adversity in her career. She has hung in there despite all the bad performances.
The USFSA is giving her an opportunity to prove herself. It's up to her to take the opportunity and run with it. She may not get the chance next year.
Maybe next year will be Carolines year finally!
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Exactly. Like I said before, it's almost like a betting game. Do you bet on the steady competitor who may not be so spectacular, or the one with a lot of potential, who may rock the house or bomb at any given moment?
Nationals went down the way they did and no one can change the result. The only way to get the team everyone wants is for Alyssa to withdraw (since I imagine Caroline's the first alternate), and I don't see that happening unless she's injured.
Anyone can slip up at any moment. Nothing is guaranteed.
I keep thinking Ashley Wagner last year...how she made a big splash on the GP and at Nationals...and then went to Worlds and tanked. The highest-placed lady finishing the lowest of the team. Not to try to make the case for Alyssa but the same thing could happen to Zhang. Although, given her performance at 4CC it probably is less likely, but still.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
Well, is seems that Caroline did 0.14 point worse at Nationals. I am actually amazed at how close the 2 scores are. That tells me she was actually judged fairly.
Now everybody get ready for another stupid analysis....................
Rachael's National score ( 173.78 ) would put her 4th at 4CC, between Caroline and Mao. Alissa's National score ( 178.06 ) would put her 3rd, between Mao and Joannie. So if all judging was fair, Alissa could have made the podium in Vancouver with a 3-triple program. :scratch:
I'm sorry, I don't buy it. As much as I like Alissa and Rachael, the judges at Nats were handing out points like Halloween candy.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2007
What's important is that skating is still interesting even with the new judging system contrary to some posters here. Who would've guessed after watching Mao's LP that she'd win the free skate. But in the end I agree with the judges because she had the best free skate out of the group. In PCS, I don't see how Caroline even comes close in quality to Mao's skate - although I do see a lot of improvement in Caroline - she used to make me fall asleep but last night I was like, "hmmm, not bad." But hey, Caroline had the highest TES, so it just tells you, those numbers don't lie; new judging system works.
I feel so bad for Yu-na because I saw that look on her face after she fell on her loop. She was visibly shaken and she was mad at herself. There was an uncharacteristic loss of focus there in Yu-na. She's human after all.
I think USFSA favored Alissa because she had the potential to be artistic more than Rachel or Caroline. Once she masters her jumps that is. She did surprisingly well at 4CC. I noticed she closes her eyes before each skate nowadays - maybe she's training herself to calm her nerves and I think it's working for her.
I feel so bad for Yu-na because I saw that look on her face after she fell on her loop. She was visibly shaken and she was mad at herself. There was an uncharacteristic loss of focus there in Yu-na. She's human after all.
I think USFSA favored Alissa because she had the potential to be artistic more than Rachel or Caroline. Once she masters her jumps that is. She did surprisingly well at 4CC. I noticed she closes her eyes before each skate nowadays - maybe she's training herself to calm her nerves and I think it's working for her.
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After she fell, it was like the energy just drained right out of her.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
I think USFSA favored Alissa because she had the potential to be artistic more than Rachel or Caroline. Once she masters her jumps that is. She did surprisingly well at 4CC. I noticed she closes her eyes before each skate nowadays - maybe she's training herself to calm her nerves and I think it's working for her.
She looks like she says a prayer.
She looks like she says a prayer.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
I think that USFSA was tired of hearing all the crap about how its only the "baby ballerinas" that win. They wanted a mature, polished woman who everybody has a soft spot for.
I honestly can't figure out exactly why they favored Alissa over Caroline. Rachael I can maybe understand, because she doesn't have that star quality nor amazing non-jumping elements, her programs have been so zzzzzzzzzzzzzz this season, and even her 3-3 has been MIA lately. With Caroline, maybe it's a combination of different reasons, as different people have been proposing:
-- USFSA wanting to have a more mature, womanly national champion (after the extreme hyping of Mirai at National's last year, she blazed out with her growth spurt, not saying she won't make a comeback like Phaneuf or even better, but it shows the danger of placing too much bets on a young teenager to be the future star)
-- the momentum Alissa carried into the LP with her shockingly clean SP (that is so rare for *her*) and Brian Boitano telling the media repeatedly how much she's improved this season; many have been waiting for years for Alissa to go clean, and she started off this season well, skated a great SP, so it really seemed like this just might be the year for her to shine, and so the judges gave it to her despite her less-than-impressive LP
-- the downgrades and edge calls Caroline got slapped with when she entered the senior ranks, just as those tough new penalties were coming into play, made people worry that her future is doomed under this system (which is obviously an exaggeration considering she got the highest TES here despite not having her 3F-3T's ratified)
-- all the high expectations surrounding Caroline before she even entered senior ranks turned into frustration/impatience or even disgust when she didn't immediately turn into a senior star (related to the previous point)
In any case, whatever the reasons, to me it seemed unfair bias was clearly there at National's in the judging of these two young ladies. One can argue about where that bias came from or what future expectations were involved (like who has higher scoring potential at World's). But in any case, if figure skating is going to be taken as a serious sport, its judging should be based on *only* how the skaters execute on the night, not on past history or future potential. That is just plain ridiculous.
I was so angry after National's I felt like I didn't want to watch skating again... I would watch JW and skip WC as a protest, except it would hurt no one but myself.
I want to cheer on Mao Asada and Laura Lepisto, among others.Similar threads
