Ladies LP - actual competition
- Thread starter beep_beep
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How will it pay off? Let's be frank here. IF everyone at worlds skates up to their absolute best potential, Alissa is sixth at best. Even if Alissa hit every jump in her arsenal because she attempts only 5 jumps normally (six if you count the 3toe/3toe we never see) she's not going to get the scores to beat Ando/Kostner/Rochette/Kim/Asda because all five of those girls will completely and overwhelm Alissa with jumps.
So what exactly is the reward her if Alissa's potential placement isn't really that much better (or not at all) from Flatt or Zhang's. Lots of risk there with no reward, I'd say.
Bekalc, I must say, I've heard you say more positive things about Zhang in this one thread than I ever saw from you altogether combined before 4CC.
I asked this question many pages ago in between all the rehasing of US Nationals...
Who will be the Mexican representative at Worlds? Ana Cecilia Cantu or her sister Michelle? Whoever finished the highest got a ticket to LA and I'm just wondering who that was.
Who will be the Mexican representative at Worlds? Ana Cecilia Cantu or her sister Michelle? Whoever finished the highest got a ticket to LA and I'm just wondering who that was.
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- Feb 17, 2007
I just had a thought. Junior Worlds start February 23, and senior Worlds start March 22 ........ 4 weeks later. It's possible the guys at USFSA will see how Caroline does in Bulgaria before deciding on whether to shuffle the team.
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- Jun 21, 2003
PolymerBob, you asked earlier about the coverage of the ladies event on the USFS site. Here is the article, following the link to icenetwork. I think it was up earlier but then replaced by the Lysacek lead after the men's.
http://www.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090207&content_id=61027&vkey=ice_news
What would really mix things up is if Ashley Wagner won world juniors, ahead of Caroline and Mirai. Then Alissa and Racahel would have no choice but to fake injuries and withdraw.
http://www.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090207&content_id=61027&vkey=ice_news
PolymerBob said:
What would really mix things up is if Ashley Wagner won world juniors, ahead of Caroline and Mirai. Then Alissa and Racahel would have no choice but to fake injuries and withdraw.
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- Feb 17, 2007
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- Jan 23, 2004
The Mexican Ladies:
Anna Cecilia Cantu 18
Loretta Hamui 21
Michelle Cantu 22
It looks like Anna Cecilia will be going to Worlds.
I disagree about Mao getting a single GoE of 1 for her 1A. She should've gotten GoEs of 2 or 3 for it. It was a huge 1A with good flow. I don't care if she planned on it being a 3A.
IMO this was Caroline's best skate ever. Her previous best (according to the score) at the GPF was marred by a fall. Compared to Nationals, her technical elements and her choreographical elements were performed better. Plus her attitude was better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0VWf7qEaHA
I wouldn't brag too much about Caroline's highest TES in the LP though. Joannie should've gotten the higher TES but she didn't get any credit for one of her 3Ss due to the nebulous rules.
Besides Caroline, this was also Alissa's overall seasonal best score (in ISU competitions).
It was a huge 1A with good flow. I don't care if she planned on it being a 3A.IMO this was Caroline's best skate ever. Her previous best (according to the score) at the GPF was marred by a fall. Compared to Nationals, her technical elements and her choreographical elements were performed better. Plus her attitude was better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0VWf7qEaHA
I wouldn't brag too much about Caroline's highest TES in the LP though. Joannie should've gotten the higher TES but she didn't get any credit for one of her 3Ss due to the nebulous rules.
Besides Caroline, this was also Alissa's overall seasonal best score (in ISU competitions).
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this is the thread for 4cc, but heck if there isn't more discussion about us nationals than the 4cc! geez.
and i understand all of us on these forums are figure skating fans and are passionate about the sport and voicing our opinions, but it's really sad to see some people feel the need to insult other fans they don't agree with, calling them disgusting, stupid, or implying that they are ignorant and don't know anything about skating so they don't qualify having an opinion at all.
these girls are all out there training year-round skating because they love the sport, and at the same time try their best to put on the best show for their fans. they love skating not just because of the athlete's thrill but also because of the beauty of it.
let's not marr it here on these boards.
and i understand all of us on these forums are figure skating fans and are passionate about the sport and voicing our opinions, but it's really sad to see some people feel the need to insult other fans they don't agree with, calling them disgusting, stupid, or implying that they are ignorant and don't know anything about skating so they don't qualify having an opinion at all.
these girls are all out there training year-round skating because they love the sport, and at the same time try their best to put on the best show for their fans. they love skating not just because of the athlete's thrill but also because of the beauty of it.
let's not marr it here on these boards.
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- Sep 30, 2006
None of the other American girls can beat the aforementioned skaters either at their best. No one (in their right mind) is betting on Alissa to medal.
Well exactly, so what again is the benefit for taking the chance on Czisny. They way I look at it, there was very little reward for putting Czisny on the team, and a HIGH risk value because of the likelhood that Alissa would only land something like 3 triples. So the point is if Czisny at best isn't going to do much better than Flatt or Zhang and is far more likely to bomb, well than why not take the two most likely to put in decent performances. That's why taking Czisny made absolutely no sense.
I could get the reward benefits of Czisny had Sandhu like abilities.
If Alyssa gets sixth, and Rachel gets 7th, that's 3 spots for the US Olympic team. I think I need not say more.
I think she wants to put it in. YuNa said in a previous interview, "If I cannot land 3Lo in practice, I would give up. But, in practice, I land it just as well as other jumps. It is just a mental thing.". Well, she wants to ovecome it.
If Alyssa gets sixth, and Rachel gets 7th, that's 3 spots for the US Olympic team. I think I need not say more.
But I think that Zhang/Flatt have a better shot at sixth. Let me put it this way Laura Lepisto gets high PCS (maybe better than Alissa's) she gets high GOE's. So the only way to beat Laura is to outjump her. Whose more likely to do that" Zhang/Flatt or Alissa?
Then you have Fumie Suguri. Alissa hasn't beaten Suguri this season. Suguri is more likely to outjump Alissa. What's the best way to overcome Suguri, well it's once again to have a US girl out jump her.
Whose more likely to outjump Suguri? Zhang/Flatt or Alissa. Once again Zhang/Flatt. Alissa competed against Suguri three times this season and lost to her three times. In contrast Zhang/Flatt competeted against Suguri 2 and that went fifty/fifty. (Suguri out scored Zhang at Canada, but Zhang beat her in Four Continents) Suguri beat Flatt at Four Continents/ but Flatt beat her at Cup of Russia.
In fact Rachael even with her lesser free skate of only 5 triples finished almost head of Suguri in the long, and Suzuki, and Cynthia. Alissa in contrast, only beat Amelia.. That's the whole point.
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Thank you very much for finally giving me an answer to my question.
I wish Ana Cecilia all the best in LA and hope she makes the cut for the LP.
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- Jan 23, 2004
Your welcome.
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- Jul 27, 2003
The Canadian TV (CBC TV, not PJ Kwong) commentators said that they will be expanding the ice size for the Olympics to Olympic size.
Interesting point. While I'd love for Caroline to go to LA, I just fear that'll be too much for her. 4CC, JW, and Worlds after doing two GP's and Nationals in addition to shows like Skating & Gymnastics... I'd hate for her to overwork herself and get injured.
I was so angry after National's I felt like I didn't want to watch skating again... I would watch JW and skip WC as a protest, except it would hurt no one but myself.
I think after Nationals, I was just disappointed, not yet angry. I just knew there would be no beating Alissa after that SP, but I had hoped that Caroline could catch up to Rachael... But after 4CC, I can't take it anymore. Part of me wants Rachael/Alissa to completely bomb at Worlds so that USFSA will see the mistake they made in screwing over Caroline, but then the other part of me knows that Rachael/Alissa need to do well in order for Caroline to have a better chance at Vancouver next year. After all, the way it is now, she'll need all the help she can get....
At the time, I thought why should Caroline go to JW, especially if she does well at 4CC. For ISU ranking purposes, she will not get too many more points by winning JW than getting 4th at 4CC. Skaters are only allowed to count one ISU Championship a year (the WC, on the hand, gives a lot more points than either 4CC or JW). However, now that she's done well at 4CC, really well relative to the other US skaters, I'm warming up to the idea of her going to JW. She needs to show USFSA again and again that on the international level, that she's the top US lady. That's the best she can do to discourage USFSA from keeping her at home during the Vancouver Olympics.
The tech panel at US National's is somehow particularly harsh with her: last year, they "mistakenly" downgraded her 3Z in the SP (oops) which resulted in her not being in the last group, and gave the judges an excuse to give her lower PCS than the other top ladies; meanwhile, they ignored fluztes and lips and under-rotations from Ashley, Rachael, and Mirai. This year, the tech panel gave ! to all her 3F's (as well as the 3Z), something that never happens at international competitions (not only to her, but to any skater -- I can't remember any skater getting edge calls on both flips and lutzes in a single competition, can anyone else??), while the tech panel was lenient with Rachael's flutz and Alissa's lip, as well as Alissa's under-rotations. And of course the judging panel did her no favor, such as giving Rachael 1 point more in PCS in the SP (which accounted almost entirely for the difference in their SP scores; this compared with Caroline scoring higher than Rachael in PCS in both phases of 4CC) and Alissa 7 points more in the LP. The list goes on.
My worry is that by holding Caroline down this year at National's, not only can she not compete at World's, but Alissa/Rachael will fail to garner three spots for the Olympics (looking quite likely now), and then the story will repeat itself next year, and Caroline won't be able to go to the Olympics at all! So Caroline really needs to go to as many international competitions as possible, including JW, to show that she can beat not only Rachael & Alissa, but also Mirai and Ashley. If she can do this at JW, and again next year in the GP's, then that's the best she can do to ensure herself of a place on the Olympics team next season. So Caroline, go for it!
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