Is Mao back in the mix? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Is Mao back in the mix?

It is not what a skater plans, but what a skater does!
Mao will medal if she skates a clean short and a five-triple free that includes a 3a.
Unfortunately for Mao, she is skating against her music. It's Russian, and does not allow her natural flow and ease to shine.

Rochette plans a 7-triple? Not possible this season, I'm thinking. With all the emphases on UR, correct edges, in-betweens, footwork, and complicated spins, is it realistic to expect a lady to also complete 7 triples successfully in the FS. (What lady has accomplished this so far this season?)

Good analysis, but I wouldn't count your chickens before they've hatched. Like the last poster said, Akiko has landed 7 triple freeskates twice this season. Mao landed 5 triples in the free last year and was 4th, anything can happen.
 
If the top contenders skate perfectly with their current programs and jump layouts, my overall ranking would probably be:

1. Yu-Na Kim

(big gap)

2. Mao Asada
3. Joannie Rochette
4. Akiko Suzuki
5. Miki Ando

Even though Mao's LP is unfortunate and also watered down in terms of the jumps (by her standards at least), she still has stronger Spins and Spirals than the other contenders and also greater jump content overall when you consider the more difficult Triple Axel combination in the SP. I'd actually probably rank Mao 4th in the LP, but 2nd by enough distance in the SP to barely keep her in 2nd overall.
 
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Not sure yet. Her jumps still look shaky. We will see what happens in 4cc.
 
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Too strict and merciless opinion as to Mao

I wonder why there are few posters who are happy to know of Mao's comeback.
It was an ununderstandable matter that a skater who used to compete with Yuna equally last season came to be underscored and given nearly 40 points less compared to her for example in TEB. Maybe it is because of change of rules or something.
However, finally after a long, hard and challenging trial, Mao for the first time in this season have come to show what she can really be in Nats.
Instead of nitpicking, I would like all of you to show much more joy to see successful Mao again, even if most of you are actually what is called Yuna fans.
I hear more than 45% of Golden Skate visitors are from Japan. Strange ???????
So it is really ununderstandable that there are few comments of those who love Mao.
 
I wonder why there are few posters who are happy to know of Mao's comeback.
It was an ununderstandable matter that a skater who used to compete with Yuna equally last season came to be underscored and given nearly 40 points less compared to her for example in TEB. Maybe it is because of change of rules or something.
However, finally after a long, hard and challenging trial, Mao for the first time in this season have come to show what she can really be in Nats.
Instead of nitpicking, I would like all of you to show much more joy to see successful Mao again, even if most of you are actually what is called Yuna fans.
I hear more than 45% of Golden Skate visitors are from Japan. Strange ???????
So it is really ununderstandable that there are few comments of those who love Mao.

Let's just wait and see what happens guys, ok? I feel like we can talk and predict all we want, but it comes down to what happens at the Olympics. The ice is slippery, anything can happen. I will say that Yuna, Mao, Joannie, and Miki all have very good shots at medaling at the Olympics, and are probably the faves going in, nothing more. Peace :biggrin:
 
. Also, didn't Yuna have a better record on Grand Prix series than Worlds? She won three Grand Prix finals and only one Worlds. So I don't know about her peaking later than earlier in the season. She definitely peaked this year as a whole. .

Well, I think that's an unfair statement, as Kim was injured right before Worlds in both 2007 and 2008, but still managed to acquire bronze. Now that's impressive. The skaters who placed above her (Miki and Mao in 2007, Mao and Carolina in 2008) were in great shape, so any comparison of ability based on those World results is bound to be unfair. In 2008, Kim had only a week or so to practice right before Worlds because she had to focus on recovery, but still managed to give bronze-level performances. Remember that against all odds she still performed a record-breaking performance to Tango de Roxanne in 2007 and had a pretty impressive FS in 2008 to Miss Saigon (perhaps not everyone's favorite, but still well-performed). The two seasons in which she was healthy were 2005-2006 (Jr) and 2008-2009 and in both she not only emerged as World Champ, but also peaked just in time -- so I guess most people base their analysis on these seasons.

. As I said before, Mao's jumping problem is partly mental. She says she can still do them in her practices. So even if she practice her jumps, it won't help if she lacks the confidence to do it in competitions. So it all depends on whether she can solve her mental problem by the Olympics.

There has been much debate concerning Mao's jumps... I think it's mostly mental, but I don't think anyone can deny that there is definitely something physical/technical to it as well (like trying to fix too many jumps at the same time, focusing too much on the 3A at the expense of the other jumps -- someone noted that Mao practices almost only the 3A in practice). I'm in the majority who thinks Mao's jumping skills in general have deteriorated immensely over the last two years, but who knows why. It's a conundrum. Let's just wait to see how she performs in 4CC and the Olympics.
 
Well, I think that's an unfair statement, as Kim was injured right before Worlds in both 2007 and 2008, but still managed to acquire bronze. Now that's impressive. The skaters who placed above her (Miki and Mao in 2007, Mao and Carolina in 2008) were in great shape, so any comparison of ability based on those World results is bound to be unfair. In 2008, Kim had only a week or so to practice right before Worlds because she had to focus on recovery, but still managed to give bronze-level performances. Remember that against all odds she still performed a record-breaking performance to Tango de Roxanne in 2007 and had a pretty impressive FS in 2008 to Miss Saigon (perhaps not everyone's favorite, but still well-performed). The two seasons in which she was healthy were 2005-2006 (Jr) and 2008-2009 and in both she not only emerged as World Champ, but also peaked just in time -- so I guess most people base their analysis on these seasons.


There has been much debate concerning Mao's jumps... I think it's mostly mental, but I don't think anyone can deny that there is definitely something physical/technical to it as well (like trying to fix too many jumps at the same time, focusing too much on the 3A at the expense of the other jumps -- someone noted that Mao practices almost only the 3A in practice). I'm in the majority who thinks Mao's jumping skills in general have deteriorated immensely over the last two years, but who knows why. It's a conundrum. Let's just wait to see how she performs in 4CC and the Olympics.

Ok if comparing Yuna when she was injured is unfair, then I think it's also unfair for people to make comparisons based on only Mao's performance this year when she was obviously not in form. Also, saying that Yuna couldnt win before because of her injury reminds me of the Tara and Michelle situation at Worlds where so many people were saying Michelle wouldnt have lost if she were not injured. I love Michelle but saying this is also unfair to Tara. I just don't like these hypothetical assumptions because it downplays the other skaters' accomplishments.



The reason why I say is mostly a mental issue is because a big factor is that she lacks the height in performing her jumps, which is more of a lack of confidence, since Mao's body hasnt really changed much through the years. I've seen some practice clips of her before, and she does try other jumps besides 3A. She also tries 3-3 in practice.
 
Rochette plans a 7-triple? Not possible this season, I'm thinking. With all the emphases on UR, correct edges, in-betweens, footwork, and complicated spins, is it realistic to expect a lady to also complete 7 triples successfully in the FS. (What lady has accomplished this so far this season?)

:confused: Rochette has planned a 7 triple LP ever since she's been on the scene. She's one of the very few lady skaters nowadays who attempts the 3Lutz (twice), 3flip, 3loop, 3Salchow (twice), and 3toe in all of her LPs.

And to answer your question, Rachael Flatt accomplished 7 rotated triples at Skate America. Joannie Rochette also accomplished 7 rotated triples at the Japan Open. Alena Leonova accomplished 7 rotated triples at NHK Trophy, but she received -GOE on the 2nd half of her 3toe+3toe combination. Akiko Suzuki accomplished 7 rotated triples at the Grand Prix Final and Japanese Nationals (this girl has really been on a roll this season).
 
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:confused: Rochette has planned a 7 triple LP ever since she's been on the scene. She's one of the very few lady skaters nowadays who attempts the 3Lutz (twice), 3flip, 3loop, 3Salchow (twice), and 3toe in all of her LPs.

And to answer your question, Rachael Flatt accomplished 7 rotated triples at Skate America. Joannie Rochette also accomplished 7 rotated triples at the Japan Open. Alena Leonova accomplished 7 rotated triples at NHK Trophy, but she received -GOE on the 2nd half of her 3toe+3toe combination. Akiko Suzuki accomplished 7 rotated triples at the Grand Prix Final and Japanese Nationals (this girl has really been on a roll this season).

Yes that is all i'm saying, there are women out there who CAN and HAVE successfully executed 7 triple LPs, and these programs are amazing to watch too! (Akiko at GPF and Rachael at SA :love: :rock:) Most other ladies only attempt 5 or 6 triples in the LP so those who attempt 7 have a bit of a buffer and don't have to bank on having super high PCS
 
Rochette doesn't do a real 7 Triple program, though.

I liked when she used to do the 3Toe-3Sal combination, but now she does it as a sequence.

It scores the same points with CoP, so I see the reasoning, but the way she used to do it was more exciting and difficult.
 
The Triples aren't worth as much when you put them in sequence, rather than in combination.

A 3Lutz into a 3Toe as a sequence is worth a lot less than a 3Lutz-3Toe combination.

Joannie doesn't have a real 7-Triple program because not all of those 7 Triples are worth the full amount.

A 3Toe-half loop-3Sal should be worth more than a sequence but Joannie doesn't do that anymore either. She takes steps inbetween her 3Toe and 3Sal this year.
 
Well...I dunno about the scoring and all that...but I thought the definition of a 7-triple program was a program that had 7 triples in it?? :scratch:
 
The Triples aren't worth as much when you put them in sequence, rather than in combination.

A 3Lutz into a 3Toe as a sequence is worth a lot less than a 3Lutz-3Toe combination.

Joannie doesn't have a real 7-Triple program because not all of those 7 Triples are worth the full amount.

Regardless of how COP values jump sequences, Joannie still attempts 7 triples in her LPs.

A 3Toe-half loop-3Sal should be worth more than a sequence but Joannie doesn't do that anymore either. She takes steps inbetween her 3Toe and 3Sal this year.

No use in doing the two jumps as a more difficult sequence when it's not getting credited as such, which is a much discussed problem with COP.
 
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Well...I dunno about the scoring and all that...but I thought the definition of a 7-triple program was a program that had 7 triples in it?? :scratch:

Sure, keep the label if you want, but it's nothing more than a label.

People say "7 Triple program" as if it means something of specific value when, in fact, a 5 Triple program might actually be worth more points.

Here is what Joannie's "7 Triple Program" is worth in base value:

3Lutz-2Toe-2Loop (8.8)
3Flip (5.5)
3Loop (5.0)
-----------
3Lutz (6.6
3Toe, 3Sal sequence (7.48)
2Axel-2Toe (5.28)
3Sal (4.95)

Total - 43.61

Now, look at this 5 Triple Program:

3Flip-3Loop (10.5)
2Axel (3.5)
3Lutz-2Loop (7.5)
--------------
2Axel-2Loop-2Loop (7.15)
3Flip (6.05
3Lutz (6.6)
2Axel (3.85)

Total - 45.15

It's worth more than Joannie's program....and none of those Triples are a 3Axel either.

Here is the base value of a 5-Triple program Mao Asada could potentially perform (let's assume she does this layout because she wants to try the 3Axel-3Toe combination, but only manages to do a 3Axel-2Toe):

3Axel-2Toe (9.5)
3Axel (8.2)
3Flip (5.5)
----------
2Axel-2Loop-2Loop (7.15)
3Flip-2Loop (7.7)
3Loop (5.5)
2Axel (3.85)

Total - 47.4

Worth significantly more than Joannie's program, with just 5 Triples.

People need to stop counting the number of Triples a skater lands. That's not what matters (to an extent). All of the double Axels and combination jumps need to be counted as well.
 
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I would rather see a "not real" 7 triple program with a complete set of jumps vs. a 4 triple program with a 2a tacked on to everything... :sheesh:
 
Well you are only allowed 3 Double Axels, so a 4 Triple program wouldn't be worth as much (unless those 4 Triples consist of 2 Triple Axels and 2 other difficult Triples).

I would like to see complete sets of jumps rewarded (when performed perfectly) but the added difficulty of the Triple Axel must be kept in mind.
 
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