South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

[pangtongfan]

Christine Brennan has a seething hatred of Russia.

That is why she has heavily praised Yagudin, Gordeeva & Grinkov, Miskutienok & Dmitriev, Urmanov, Kulik, and other Russians many times over. She even praised Slutskaya many times, despite admitting to not liking her skating, telling the Kwan fans writing in angry over Irina's 2002 world title that they were wrong and Irina deserved it; defending Irina's placement above Michelle in the short at the 2002 Olympics which cost Michelle the gold and gave Irina silver above Michelle; saying Irina should have beaten Tara and maybe Michelle in the 97 worlds LP and moved up to medal.

She calls things as they are, and in this case did so again. I can understand how some empassioned Russian skating fans hate people like her, as she doesnt let things they pull like SLC pairs and this just be swept under the rug quietly. Thank goodness for people like her that mean Russians will always carry the asterisk of such actions, and they will never be forgotten.

 

[gmyers]

Brennan and the truth could really help South Korea in their effort to strip sotnikova of the gold and get it to Yuna Kim.

 

[pangtongfan]

Brennan and the truth could really help South Korea in their effort to strip sotnikova of the gold and get it to Yuna Kim.

At this point Sotnikova is probably secretly praying for this to happen, but unfortunately her prayers wont be answered. The gold of shame will be on her forever, there is no reprieve coming at this point.

 

[gmyers]

At this point Sotnikova is probably secretly praying for this to happen, but unfortunately her prayers wont be answered. The gold of shame will be on her forever, there is no reprieve coming at this point.

This is wrong. THe court of arbitration for sport took away chinas bronze in team women's gymnastics more than a decade after they won it!!! The South Korean federation and other ally federations are serious in bringing to light collusion among the multiple judges from Russia on he judging panel and the technical panel. They will succeed i believe in taking away the gold from sotnikova because the biggest shock robbery has occurred to many and all the Russians and multiple Russians fixing the ladies really could be exposed by the South Korean and allied federations and sotnikova will not have the gold at some point. The CAS I believe will take it away.

 

[pangtongfan]

This is wrong. THe court of arbitration for sport took away chinas bronze in team women's gymnastics more than a decade after they won it!!!

They took it away since a gymnast is underaged. Others have medals taken away for doping. Sotnikova did nothing wrong (other than her classless reaction to her blatantly gifted gold, but that is not something to remove a medal for). I am not surprised to now see Sotnikova fans are praying for her to lose that gold which is becoming heavier and a bigger wart than a prize, and she might well be doing the same by now, but sorry it isnt happening. Sotnikova will always be the dubious gold medalist of the 2014 Olympic singles competition, now and forever. Not unless a mentally frail women like Marie Reine LeGougne comes forward and confesses to what obviously went on, but this time they picked their panel well with no headcases, just moral-less criminals with no skating knowledge to even know what is right to have begun with, so very unlikely that will be repeated.

 

[gmyers]

They took it away since a gymnast is underaged. Others have medals taken away for doping. Sotnikova did nothing wrong (other than her classless reaction to her blatantly gifted gold, but that is not something to remove a medal for). I am not surprised to now see Sotnikova fans are praying for her to lose that gold which is becoming heavier and a bigger wart than a prize, and she might well be doing the same by now, but sorry it isnt happening. Sotnikova will always be the dubious gold medalist of the 2014 Olympic singles competition, now and forever. Not unless a mentally frail women like Marie Reine LeGougne comes forward and confesses to what obviously went on, but this time they picked their panel well with no headcases, just moral-less criminals with no skating knowledge to even know what is right to have begun with, so very unlikely that will be repeated.

This is what the CAS is for! They got the evidence and proof of underage Chinese gymnasts and they could get the proof of illegal criminal collusion for fixing the ladies for sotnikova. Her scores will be erased as falsely high just like the Chinese gymnasts ages were falsely high and then Yuna will get gold and kostner silver and Gracie gold bronze. Just like the American team in 2000 Sydney now has bronze. The gold of sotnikova will probably be taken away because too many federations and too many people believe it should be. I don't believe sotnikova will give it back to the IOC because she did skate really well and thinks she deserves it but the CAS I believe at the urging of laws and the world will take it away.

 

[pangtongfan]

Kim is not an American. If she were I could see your point but those kind of breaks are only for the Americans. Hence the nonsense of Marion Jones relay teammates being allowed to keep their 2000 bronze when they barely made the final without her. The Chinese in 2000 would have won the bronze even without underaged Dong Fangxiao. The Americans would have finished 7th or 8th without Jones. No matter, one is for an American, one is against, both go to the Americans. Kim is not an American though.

 

[gmyers]

Kim is not an American. If she were I could see your point but those kind of breaks are only for the Americans. Hence the nonsense of Marion Jones relay teammates being allowed to keep their 2000 bronze when they barely made the final without her. The Chinese in 2000 would have won the bronze even without underaged Dong Fangxiao. The Americans would have finished 7th or 8th without Jones. No matter, one is for an American, one is against, both go to the Americans. Kim is not an American though.

But judging by reactions basically the entire world would support South Korea in their court of arbitration for sport case. This is so beyond the isu or ioc rules of 60 days! That's just laughable. This will go to the CAS and then the CAS will demand testimony on the urging of South Korea and its allies from Lakernik, baranova, shekhovtseva, balkov, Kulik, and more and they will make the decision on the revoking of sotnikovas gold. Everyone who supports Yuna should be happy because she will get a gold from the sochi games. Too many people have made it their mission including entire federations and their allies.

 

[anyanka]

I wonder if at the end of all this, if they do a 2002 SLC pairs and do find corruption and give Yuna a gold as a co-champion, she turns around, simply says "no thanks", then walks away.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I wonder if at the end of all this, if they do a 2002 SLC pairs and do find corruption and give Yuna a gold as a co-champion, she turns around, simply says "no thanks", then walks away.

After all....the skate itself is the reward. Is it not?

 

[pangtongfan]

I wonder if at the end of all this, if they do a 2002 SLC pairs and do find corruption and give Yuna a gold as a co-champion, she turns around, simply says "no thanks", then walks away.

She probably would do that if it came to that. She is an incredibly classy champiion, basically the polar opposite of someone like Sotnikova. She also would be letting the ISU and the Russians partially off the hook by accepting a 2nd gold, and they simply dont deserve that. She would much rather keep the heat on them as they fully deserve for what they did to her and to the sport. She is the real gold medalist anyway, everyone knows that, a medal is not needed for validation and would only stifle the process that is taking place.

 

[gmyers]

South Korea and its allies do probably want to keep the heat on with a court of arbitration for sport case and its already announced efforts to make sure Russia can't have more than one judge on a panel recommendation. Why else in south koreas announcement would they talk about the makeup of the panel? What's wrong with the basic makeup of the panel? The problem is that Russia is seen to control ukraine and Estonia skating federations and that using that leverage plus controlling he technical panel with Russians baranova and Lakernik it completely fixed the results? So using all that info and with he support of the world skating community except for Russia and the federations South Korea is alleging Russia controls with allies such as Brennan hersh Witt browning etc- it doesn't matter if some deadlines are over the CAS still exists for this kind of situation.

What Kim Yuna does when sotnikovas gold is taken away and presented or offered to her is irrelevent. Maybe she would reject it and just say it would be better for the isu to enforce its one judge from one country rule and make a new rule banning former members of the same country from judging together on the same panel especially when so many have evidence based on names that Russia controls Ukrainian and Estonian federation!! The Estonian judges name is Kulik! Who else is named Kulik? The 1998 Olympic men's champion from Russia! All of this is going into south koreas case to revoke sotnikovas gold and give it to Yuna!

 

[anyanka]

She probably would do that if it came to that. She is an incredibly classy champiion, basically the polar opposite of someone like Sotnikova. She also would be letting the ISU and the Russians partially off the hook by accepting a 2nd gold, and they simply dont deserve that. She would much rather keep the heat on them as they fully deserve for what they did to her and to the sport. She is the real gold medalist anyway, everyone knows that, a medal is not needed for validation and would only stifle the process that is taking place.

Also, by having her own show and sports agency, she's already a mega-millionaire and international star athlete who is one of Forbes's ten highest-paying female athletes of the year. Tons of other skaters perform in her shows and she signs all their checks. They are her employees. She's already got endorsements and an uncontested Olympic gold medal in a performance for the ages. She doesn't need a second Olympic gold. And in 2018 she'll light the flame at the opening ceremony and her face will be plastered everywhere, more so than the ruler next door to her up north in his country ...

I bet she's laughing the whole thing off. Yuna's got it made.

That being said, I'd be really interested in how the complaint and investigation pan out.

 

[YesWay]

I wonder if at the end of all this, if they do a 2002 SLC pairs and do find corruption and give Yuna a gold as a co-champion, she turns around, simply says "no thanks", then walks away.

What Kim Yuna does when sotnikovas gold is taken away and presented or offered to her is irrelevent. Maybe she would reject it

a) They won't take Sotnikova's gold away. Because she did nothing wrong. And
b) Even if a second gold was awarded (it won't), it would go to Kostner not Kim.

 

[jenm]

a) They won't take Sotnikova's gold away. Because she did nothing wrong. And
b) Even if a second gold was awarded (it won't), it would go to Kostner not Kim.

I agree to not taking away Adelina's gold. That would tear her apart and we don't want that. She's been through a lot already. Tho I don't like her attitude to be honest.

Why not to Yuna? She's the only one in that competition who didn't receive negative GOEs or made any mistake (tight landing is not a mistake but rather a downgrade on quality IMO). If that doesn't indicate technical superiority, I don't know what does. Carolina's jumps were telegraphed and some of her jumps were wobbly or off-axis in mid-air position. She was robbed of SILVER not gold. Adelina is the deserving bronze medalist.

 

[Tutto]

I agree to not taking away Adelina's gold. That would tear her apart and we don't want that. She's been through a lot already. Tho I don't like her attitude to be honest.

Why not to Yuna? She's the only one in that competition who didn't receive negative GOEs or made any mistake (tight landing is not a mistake but rather a downgrade on quality IMO). If that doesn't indicate technical superiority, I don't know what does. Carolina's jumps were telegraphed and some of her jumps were wobbly or off-axis in mid-air position. She was robbed of SILVER not gold. Adelina is the deserving bronze medalist.

Agree with everything you said

 

[usethis2]

Medals should not change. Yuna Kim made it clear that she has no desire. New rules do not apply retroactively. It's the very basic of laws around the globe.

 

[dorispulaski]

Re the 2000 gymnasts, did they have extra medals in storage to ship to winners? Did they say, "Send us your silver and we'll send you back a gold?" Or did they just say, "Shazam! You can update your wiki entry to say you won gold in Sydney in 2000. Don't you feel better now?"

 

[Mathman]

That being said, I'd be really interested in how the complaint and investigation pan out.

As far as I can see, no complaint was filed and no investigation has been undertaken or is in prospect.

 

[Nadya]

With everyone jumping on Christine Brennan, I feel like I should put in a good word for her. She has made a career out of championing opportunities for girls and women in sports and especially in sports journalism. She has a long list of accomplishments that begin, "the first woman sports journalist to…"

Brennan is one of a small handful of national sports commentators and writers to treat figure skating as a real sport worthy of commenting and writing on. In the 1990s she wrote two influential books skating and skaters, Inside Edge and the Edge of Glory. She can be opinionated, bold, and brash; she speaks her mind without sugar-coating, which is not everyone's cup of tea. But the sport of figure skating has benefitted from her support as well as her criticisms over a 25 year career.

I think so. :yes:

That's a benevolent way of interpreting it. The other, more cynical one, is that Brennan surveyed the field of sports journalism, and decided, that rather than be one of a million who cover baseball, she will be the only, or one of a small group, covering a niche sport. She picked figure skating as a better foundation for her career, not for the love of the sport.

I find her writing choppy, underinformed and appealing to the lowest denominator. The Inside Edge is poorly fact-checked and has glaring errors (calling a 4-time world champion a 3-time world champion, come on Brennan, spring for a damn research assistant before you publish and embarrass yourself, and join a gym already).

Also, speaking your mind is not necessarily a virtue; I mean, my 3-year old speaks his mind, so what? It only matters when what your mind produces is thoughtful and informative. If you deliver platitudes and sensationalism while speaking your mind, who cares?

Finally, I know you don't like it, but the fact of the matter is that there are so few books written on skating, every damn one of them is destined to become influential. It isn't exactly a crowded market.