South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

[Components]

^ I don't kwow. It doesn't cost anything to be charitable. I don't know how rich Ms. Brennan is, but she scubs up fine.

https://diederich.marquette.edu/COC/brennan.aspx

About her figure skating books, the second one, The Edge of Glory, was an enjoyable read. It was intended to chronical Michelle Kwan's journey to the Olympic gold medal in 1998. I don't think Ms. Brennan ever forgave Tara Lipinski for messing up the ending of her book.

Lol. Hillarious.

 

[pangtongfan]

Right. Russians are the only ones who cheat.

Brennan has made plenty of good points but she really does like to generalize Russians and other ex-Soviets and she really does have a seething hatred of Russia. She jumps on every opportunity to talk sh*t about Russia.

Soviets and ex-Russians have cheated in the sport for decades. They deserve all the generalization and stereotypes she has to throw their way. Are you actually so naive to believe the Sochi debacle was some new thing.

 

[Nadya]

Soviets and ex-Russians have cheated in the sport for decades. They deserve all the generalization and stereotypes she has to throw their way. Are you actually so naive to believe the Sochi debacle was some new thing.

Curious: what's an ex-Russian? Have you figured out a way for someone to shed their ethnicity? Do share.

 

[karne]

Soviets and ex-Russians have cheated in the sport for decades. They deserve all the generalization and stereotypes she has to throw their way. Are you actually so naive to believe the Sochi debacle was some new thing.

Are you actually so naive to think that Russia is the only country that has some cheaters? May I remind you of the nationality of Marion Jones? Or Hansie Cronje? Or Nelson Piquet? Or John Hopoate? And let's not even get started on the ages of Chinese gymnasts (and figure skaters, I seem to recall there was some talk about that a few years ago).

Russia is far from the only country who has citizens who cheat. And there wasn't even any cheating at the Olympics, so I don't understand what this whole drama is about.

 

[pangtongfan]

Sorry I meant ex-Soviets and Russians. We arent talking about other sports and dopers (when it comes to doping offenses Russia isnt even the worst of the lot, I am well aware of that). We are talking about the sport of figure skating, and yes in figure skating no other country comes even close to the old USSR, and in the last 25 years Russia, in never ending and despicable, moral-less cheating. Only someone new to the sport would think the whole Sotnikova Sochi thing was something new for the Russians, it is just another day at the office. So the generalization of them and their history of corruption and crookery in the sport is fully justified.

 

[karne]

Sorry I meant ex-Soviets and Russians. We arent talking about other sports and dopers (when it comes to doping offenses Russia isnt even the worst of the lot, I am well aware of that). We are talking about the sport of figure skating, and yes in figure skating no other country comes even close to the old USSR, and in the last 25 years Russia, in never ending and despicable, moral-less cheating. Only someone new to the sport would think the whole Sotnikova Sochi thing was something new for the Russians, it is just another day at the office. So the generalization of them and their history of corruption and crookery in the sport is fully justified.

Hmm, how about Canada throwing a tantrum and getting a second gold awarded in 2002? Or Patrick Chan winning things with four falls? Or how about the American judge emailing other judges telling them to mark Plushenko down in Vancouver?

By the way, only one of the names mentioned on that list was a doper. Cheating comes in many forms.

 

[pangtongfan]

Are you actually denying that Russia has a well earned reputation as the historically biggest cheaters in the sport of figure skating (and dont talk about other sports anymore, this particular comment of mine was centered towards just figure skating). If so that is hilarious, even if you are a Russian, to be in such denial. Canada would probably be the 2nd worst country behind Russia as far as cheating and corruption in skating though, so if that is your point I wont disagree, and I am Canadian.

 

[karne]

Are you actually denying that Russia has a well earned reputation as the historically biggest cheaters in the sport of figure skating (and dont talk about other sports anymore, this particular comment of mine was centered towards just figure skating). Canada would probably be the 2nd worst country behind Russia as far as cheating and corruption in skating though, so if that is your point I wont disagree, and I am Canadian.

Actually, I am. All of the big nations influence and politik and do all those things. But the only one who gets flak for it is Russia. Why? Because it's convenient to think of Russia as the "bad guy". You keep bleating about Russia cheating, well, give me some examples. Salt Lake is not one because a) the judge involved was FRENCH and b) the judge involved was threatened by members of the North American press to say that she made a deal with the Russians. With Salt Lake out of the way, give me an actual, concrete, proven example of Russian cheating.

 

[pangtongfan]

Actually, I am.

Hilarious. Russians have been caught having phone conversations with other judges, giving foot signals, bloc judging, and ex members of the ISU or retired judges have given stories of Russians attempting to bribe, butter up, make deals, sweetalk, make tradeoffs, and even verbally and physically intimidate them, and you deny that Russia has a well earned rep as the biggest cheating nation in skating. OK continue living in your fantasy world. I didnt say there arent other countries involved too (duh for Russians to pull these things off they need assistance) but Russia has a well earned reputation as being consistently the worth. The disgraceful judging of the Sochi Olympics, and one of the all time most unjust golds awarded in the ladies is not what bore their reputation, it merely reinforced and enhanced it having been there for decades already.

 

[Mathman]

In the 1970s bloc judging was so blatant that finally they suspended all judges from the Soviet Union for the full 1977-78 season.

 

[AliceInWonderland]

In the 1970s bloc judging was so blatant that finally they suspended all judges from the Soviet Union for the full 1977-78 season.

I may be wrong because I wasn't around in the 70s, but to my knowledge, it didn't do much good.

 

[Nadya]

Are you actually denying that Russia has a well earned reputation as the historically biggest cheaters in the sport of figure skating (and dont talk about other sports anymore, this particular comment of mine was centered towards just figure skating). If so that is hilarious, even if you are a Russian, to be in such denial. Canada would probably be the 2nd worst country behind Russia as far as cheating and corruption in skating though, so if that is your point I wont disagree, and I am Canadian.

Well, Russia and ex-USSR countries probably provide the highest number of skaters, so statistically it is only appropriate that they would be the biggest cheater. Who else, Cameroon? It's like saying that most birth defects happen to babies born to the under-30 crowd - duh, because that crowd has the most children. It doesn't say anything about their unique qualities. It's a reflection of statistical reality.

 

[Nadya]

Sorry I meant ex-Soviets and Russians. We arent talking about other sports and dopers (when it comes to doping offenses Russia isnt even the worst of the lot, I am well aware of that). We are talking about the sport of figure skating, and yes in figure skating no other country comes even close to the old USSR, and in the last 25 years Russia, in never ending and despicable, moral-less cheating. Only someone new to the sport would think the whole Sotnikova Sochi thing was something new for the Russians, it is just another day at the office. So the generalization of them and their history of corruption and crookery in the sport is fully justified.

Yes, absolutely - all this disgusting crowd of Gordeeva & Grinkov, Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, Totmianina/Marinin, the Protopopovs, Kulik, Urmanov, Plushenko, Yagudin, Baiul, Slutskaya, Dmitriev/partners, dancers too numerous to count - lied and cheated their way to the medals. None of them could land a jump for beans. Them people are nothin' but liars.

 

[Alba]

Russia has a well earned reputation as the historically biggest cheaters in the sport of figure skating

Russia/USSR has a well earned reputation as the historically biggest and among the best (if not the best) school in the sport of figure skating.

As for the cheating, well it may sound cynical but we have an expression here:" Il più pulito c'ha la rogna".
I don't know whether there is an English equivalent of this idiom, but literally translates as "the cleanest of them all has scabies."
The difference is in the power. It's all un magna magna (Dog eats dog?) thing, IMO.

We arent talking about other sports

Whay not? Add to your list the synchronized swimming as well, judged sport as well. After all, they've been the sport's dominant power since the 1998. They might be cheating there as well.

 

[gotoschool]

This is what the CAS is for! They got the evidence and proof of underage Chinese gymnasts and they could get the proof of illegal criminal collusion for fixing the ladies for sotnikova. Her scores will be erased as falsely high just like the Chinese gymnasts ages were falsely high and then Yuna will get gold and kostner silver and Gracie gold bronze. Just like the American team in 2000 Sydney now has bronze. The gold of sotnikova will probably be taken away because too many federations and too many people believe it should be. I don't believe sotnikova will give it back to the IOC because she did skate really well and thinks she deserves it but the CAS I believe at the urging of laws and the world will take it away.

While I do believe that Kim should get Gold and Kostner silver, it becomes quite complicated after that because other competitors were over-scored and under-scored as well. I don't want to open Pandora's box by revealing the names, but the scoring is so questionable for so many skaters that the only way to come to any fair decision would be to re-score the whole competition (both Sp and Lp) via video tape, or at least the top 6 or 7 skaters. which will never happen, so there really is no neat, tidy and just way of cleaning up this mess.

 

[gmyers]

What is your theory on why the blessedly Soviet-free judging panel for the short program scored Sotnikova so high?

This is why the South Korean and allies investigation may never get off the ground! They could try to demand judging panels always be structured like the sp one minus the Lakernik baranova mix on the tech panel. Or they could promote the technical panel aspect more.

While I do believe that Kim should get Gold and Kostner silver, it becomes quite complicated after that because other competitors were over-scored and under-scored as well. I don't want to open Pandora's box by revealing the names, but the scoring is so questionable for so many skaters that the only way to come to any fair decision would be to re-score the whole competition (both Sp and Lp) via video tape, or at least the top 6 or 7 skaters. which will never happen, so there really is no neat, tidy and just way of cleaning up this mess.

Cleaning up the mess that exists for so many and is so huge I don't think will be remedied by any rule changes just for future games! Something will happen to the sochi results in some way or another to please the outraged and I don't know what it would be.

 

[qwertyskates]

This isn't about your life and you're not required to post right away. You weren't editing your post for grammar or spelling, you weren't editing it to reply to multiple people. You drastically revised your previous already published post, and I was already responding to your original post. It's not a violation but it's annoying. Likewise is your justification, which is mainly full of irrelevant issues.



I said the other features were mentioned as part of the discussion, and they WERE, but I certainly never said the other feature levels were discussed blow-by-blow.



Yet you've also contradicted the tech panel by saying Yuna's salchows were UR, so basically, you believe what you want to believe when you want to believe it.



She has either head, torso, or arm movements throughout the ENTIRE footwork sequence. Only 1/3 has to have an effect on the balance of the main body core OR the balance of the body as a whole and influencing the balance on the blade, and she certainly has that. This includes but isn't limited to moves such as twisting her torso back and forth multiple times in the beginning while executing the steps. She brings her right arm above and around her head in a choreographed move and twists her torso. Notice the way her head is pivoting on the beat at the same time. She raises both arms in a choreographed move during TWO sets of counterclockwise twizzles, which she makes look very easy, but doing that during twizzles HAS to affect the balance of the entire body on the blade. That's something that Yuna added since Golden Spin. She also leans over at a certain point, and she does an illusion towards the end.

Yuna has MUCH more upper body movement than Gracie Gold, who got a level 4 on her step sequence at Worlds--the comparison is obvious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RC-Vm3Q-Iow#t=106

More than Kanako Murakami too, who also got a level 4 at Worlds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DdIxSeeeCY4#t=99

She has comparable amount of upper body movement to Mao Asada, who got a level 4 on her step sequence at the Olympics, with both even doing an illusion near the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5fA9o2sBis#t=275

Mao's torso remains upright for much of her step sequence too, as she is not bending over for 1/3 of the step sequence, but she got credit for the upper body movement, and so should Yuna have.



Yuna not being "famed" for her step sequences like Carolina is completely irrelevant. Actually she has received at least one level 4 step sequence at every competition she's competed at since 2012 NRW, with two level 4 step sequences at 2013 Worlds. As for not being "memorable" or it being "outstanding" choreography, whatever.

Like I said, I have a life, unlike most of you.

Sorry, it is ONLY to Koreans and Yuna's ubers (I am not so classless as to use "bots", unlike many of you here...) that her step sequence fulfilled all the Level 4 requirements, you still have to PROVE blow by blow HOW she did fulfill criteria 2,3,4.

You can say anything of course, this is a free speech site, but just saying so doesn't make it true, unfortunately.

I don't think so, judging by the rather lacking programs, neither did the Tech Panel and most of the professional skating world, you just have to learn to deal with it or file your evidence already to the right authorities.

I am contented to go with the majority opinion, there's no point in going on and on ad nauseum about this, is there? I even think Kostner should have received the silver after Adelina's gold, she too skated her best at Sochi, not Yuna, and deserved higher PCS.

Edit: It is also erroneous to compare the calls made by Tech Panels from different competitions. Each Panel is different, it's comparing apples with oranges. However, Yuna's body was mostly upright for most of her stsq

 

[cooper]

since when bop a yuna uber? hwell: and not all fans of yuna are koreans..

 

[Blades of Passion]

You still have to PROVE blow by blow HOW she did fulfill criteria 2,3,4.

#4 already has been proved. Look at the thread where all of the steps/turns are listed. #2 and #3 are not hard to see. Like, at all. The only way to further prove it would be to make a video that measures her rotations so that you will no longer have any possible way to keep trolling like you have been.

 

[fridakalo]

Like I said, I have a life, unlike most of you.

Sorry, it is ONLY to Koreans and Yuna's ubers (I am not so classless as to use "bots", unlike many of you here...) that her step sequence fulfilled all the Level 4 requirements, you still have to PROVE blow by blow HOW she did fulfill criteria 2,3,4.

You can say anything of course, this is a free speech site, but just saying so doesn't make it true, unfortunately.

I don't think so, judging by the rather lacking programs, neither did the Tech Panel and most of the professional skating world, you just have to learn to deal with it or file your evidence already to the right authorities.

I am contented to go with the majority opinion, there's no point in going on and on ad nauseum about this, is there? I even think Kostner should have received the silver after Adelina's gold, she too skated her best at Sochi, not Yuna, and deserved higher PCS.

Are Tim Gerber and his comrades who are in ISU technical panels koreans?
http://www.insideskating.net/2014/0...-people-deserve-to-know-if-a-mistake-was-made