South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

[anonymous penguin]

Um...you really see a 12 point gap between Adelina and Yuna. Seems a little OTT. Where exactly is this scoring coming from on the protocols? Yuna received some generous 10's on her PCS too for what was not her most inspired FS ...at least IMHO.

I'd have scored Mao about 145 and put both Adelina and Yuna around 140. My true opinion is that Yuna and Adelina were close enough that I just don't care who gets gold(maybe even Caro )For Mao her SP was such a disaster....blowing all 3 jump passes.. Ugh. Give her 4th 5th or 6th....who cares. No medal though. She can have Yulia's 5th...it doesn't matter anyway...Yulia is using her 2nd at Worlds as her best score in the rankings anyway so you can put her in 10th and it wouldn't change a thing.

Even if the score difference is a bit exaggerated, that rank order would have been much less controversial. The debate for the gold medal should have been between Yuna and Carolina, not Yuna and Adelina.

 

[pangtongfan]

As for Yuna and Caro. Personally I think Caro beat Yuna in PCS. Her Bolero was so much more lively and lovely. Yuna was very consistent but she was kinda flat there. Some blogger who wrote a lot about figure skating also stated that they thought Caro should have won overall.

Yes you could be right. There is no question in terms of choreography, transitions, and probably interpreation Kostner's LP > Kim's. Although watching the performances again on tape I wasnt as impressed with Caro as I had remembered being the first time. I had initially Caro 2nd in the LP (behind Mao) and winning overall but switched after seeing the skates a 2nd time. She also had some shaky landings, and while she had a 7th triple she didnt even do a triple-triple, so I see her TES being beaten by Kim for sure, so even with a slightly higher PCS she still might lose. I also agree with Kim being ahead in the SP, and Kim probably should have been over Kostner and even moreso of coures Sotnikova by more points than she was.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I stated that the judges jacked up Adelina's PCS score, preventing any competition in that half of the scoring. Calling that an conspiracy theory is an act of obfuscation. Did you notice how you acquiesce to the judges authority, perhaps because you are feeble minded and think it makes you look well reasoned or something? Some advice: authoritative reasoning just makes you look like a drone and a coward.

That's not it. Me and I'm sure others simply object that Yuna was superior in Sochi. She had all the weapons, she's a better skater and performer but some of us feel she didnt deliver a knock out. Is that really unfair cowardice thinking?

 

[anonymous penguin]

I wonder why Caro or Italy are not doing a protest, even in the stars on ice tour Japan there is a picture of Caro embracing to Adelina. Of course, because they know that is absurd. If someone has right to protest is Caro or Italy and they are not doing it, and even she show support for Adelina, I know that is not Yuna's obligation, but it would be nice of her at least give her congratulations for the win if Yuna knows that are people doing a fuss because this and it is not Adelina's fault.

I find it terribly funny how you have such a strong obsession of deriding Yuna when Mao would most likely not have won either even if she had gone clean. If it had been Mao who had been in Yuna's position and vice versa, would you express similar vitriol?

 

[pangtongfan]

With a bad stumble out of one of her jumps, a clearly underrotated triple flutz-triple toe, and a simple triple toe-triple toe in the short Adelina did not deliver a knockout to anyone either. It shouldnt matter that it was exceptional relative to her own usually mediocre level of skating. She should be judged against what better skaters like Kim and Kostner did, not against her own personal level which is basically what she was (if we even suspend reality for a split moment and pretend there was even an ounce of legitimate thinking to the scores).

 

[pangtongfan]

I find it terribly funny how you have such a strong obsession of deriding Yuna when Mao would most likely not have won either even if she had gone clean. If it had been Mao who had been in Yuna's position and vice versa, would you express similar vitriol?

Dont be surprised. chapis serves no role on this forum other than a crazy Maobot and over the top Kim hater. I see you are a new poster so I am just warning you in advance.

 

[anonymous penguin]

Dont be surprised. chapis serves no role on this forum other than a crazy Maobot and over the top Kim hater. I see you are a new poster so I am just warning you in advance.

Oh, I have lurked here long enough to know what most posters' intentions are.

 

[Barb]

I find it terribly funny how you have such a strong obsession of deriding Yuna when Mao would most likely not have won either even if she had gone clean. If it had been Mao who had been in Yuna's position and vice versa, would you express similar vitriol?

I find funny how all yuna fans were perfectly ok with the judges and scores when Yuna was overscored but now when is other skater so suddenly the figure skating world should to stop it and analyze each little detail, to do a official protest and discredit to the winner.

 

[anonymous penguin]

I find funny how all yuna fans were perfectly ok with the judges and scores when Yuna was overscored but now when is other skater so suddenly the figure skating world should to stop it and analyze each little detail, to do a official protest and discredit to the winner.

Yes, you responded just like I expected.

Sure, Kim was overscored in Vancouver. Drop her score 10 points. Drop it 15. Big deal. She was still the outright winner.

 

[Barb]

Dont be surprised. chapis serves no role on this forum other than a crazy Maobot and over the top Kim hater. I see you are a new poster so I am just warning you in advance.

Yes, I dont have the great and productive contributions to this forum as you. for example your thread about how Michelle is better than Yuna
And anonymus pinguin, I am not saying Yuna did not deserve her gold inVancouver, but the scores and the overscoring is important, because that produce a precednt, and the skaters, fans and even commentator always will be expecting that or more points. Even before Sochi a lot of people were speculating about Yuna getting 80+ in her sp and broking her record and lp, always wanting more, because judges accostumed people to her overscoring was normal. Same with Julia now, at first it was all about her overscore, but now people see it normal and she can not be compared even to Gold, Polina, Anna, Radionova, Akiko, etc.

 

[sk8in]

That's not it. Me and I'm sure others simply object that Yuna was superior in Sochi. She had all the weapons, she's a better skater and performer but some of us feel she didnt deliver a knock out. Is that really unfair cowardice thinking?

So now you're going to double back. As I stated, the judges stacked the skaters PCS so that there could be no competition in that half of the score. Again, to call that a conspiracy theory is delusional and spineless.

*I think the major response to this controversy has been to muddy the waters and claim all figure skating judgement is subjective. On one hand you have the point "Adelina had 7 triples," on the other hand you have "If anything Carolina Kostner should have won the gold because her skating is so beautiful." "Mao should have won the free skate! Lets just give Mao the bronze because I love her!" No, all of these things can not be true at the same time. There is a difference between a legitimate flaw in the execution of judging under the CoP system, and fans who just wish their favorite skater won or medaled.

 

[Meoima]

I find it terribly funny how you have such a strong obsession of deriding Yuna when Mao would most likely not have won either even if she had gone clean. If it had been Mao who had been in Yuna's position and vice versa, would you express similar vitriol?

I find it funny that when Yuna's fans want fair score, it only means they want the fair score for Yuna. What about other skaters? They wouldn't medal anyways so their scores do not matter? Is that your logic?

If they were scored truthfully, then Mao should have won the free skate. It does not mean people want her to medal. It only means it is her fair score. She should have broke the record with the free skate that night, despite not winning any medal at all. She was the one that moved people's tears that night, not Yuna or Adelina. Yes, she would not medal but she deserved the 1st place in the free skate, was that too much to ask?

Having said that, I am not Mao's fan at all.

If they were scored truthfully, then Caro or Yuna should have won overall. This is open to your debate. The scores have been crazy for 2 years, not just on Sochi, anyone who follow figure skating know this, yet you only go crazy because you think it affected your idol.

 

[sk8in]

@Meoima, no Carolina had weaker jumping passes plain and simple. One 3Lz and one 3F in the first half of her free skate. And she did a 3F+3T combination as opposed to a 3Lz+3T in the short program. The same way the CoP system is not JUST jumps, it is not just blade to ice skills either. Yuna should have been head and shoulders above the other two after the short. And she should have come in second behind Mao in the free skate, winning overall---with a toss up between Carolina and Adelina for silver.

 

[pangtongfan]

Yes, you responded just like I expected.

Sure, Kim was overscored in Vancouver. Drop her score 10 points. Drop it 15. Big deal. She was still the outright winner.

Except Yu Na Kim was not overscored in Vancouver. Dont let yourself be cohearsed into nonsense by the likes of blapis. Had Mao not made her mistakes she would have lost by only about 8 points, not 23. And a clean Mao would not have deserved to beat Kim in Vancouver.

Anyway only an idiot could say Kim is an "overscored" skater in general. Yu Na has never won an event or medal in her whole career she didnt clearly deserve. While she has been blindly robed of atlast 2 world or olympic titles (or atleast was clearly better than the winner)- 2011 worlds and 2014 Olympics, and arguably (although not without dispute) robbed of another at the 2008 worlds. How can a skater who clearly should have 5 or 6 world or Olympic titles but only have 3, and blew the field away in all 3 she won indicating that is the only way the judges ever let her win, be an overmarked skater. If anything she is probably one of the most wuzrobbed by the judges skaters in history. Which is to be expected being a star from a puny skating country with no money, a tiny federation, and no political power at all. I am not even a Yu Na fan either, and unlike practically everyone else dont even consider her a top 5 skater all time (which many have gotten on me for, and stupidly called me a Yu Na hater which I am not either, some posters on this forum calling me both a bot and hater of Yu Na and some other skaters, showing the laughable lack of intelligence of some individuals who post here); but the idea she is an overscored or held up skater when evaluating her career is too funny for words. It clear the complete opposite is true, and as I said a skater coming from one of the skating poorest federations could ever possibly be anything but undervalued by judges. Anyone who follows the sport and actually knows it history would know this.

 

[Meoima]

@Meoima, no Carolina had weaker jumping passes plain and simple. One 3Lz and one 3F in the first half of her free skate. And she did a 3F+3T combination as opposed to a 3Lz+3T in the short program. The same way the CoP system is not JUST jumps, it is not just blade to ice skills either. Yuna should have been head and shoulders above the other two after the short. And she should have come in second behind Mao in the free skate, winning overall---with a toss up between Carolina and Adelina for silver.

Yes but Caro deserved higher PCS. Even in her SP, she deserved higher PCS.

 

[pangtongfan]

Yes but Caro deserved higher PCS. Even in her SP, she deserved higher PCS.

I dont think her SP deserved any higher PCS. The same at best. I do agree she clearly deserved higher PCS in the LP than Yu Na (and both light years higher PCS than Sotnikova), but lower TES than Yu Na in both programs was correct. How the overall results between the two would then come out is harder to say, but probably Yu Na would be barely ahead just as it was.

 

[Meoima]

I dont think her SP deserved any higher PCS. The same at best. I do agree she clearly deserved higher PCS in the LP than Yu Na (and both light years higher PCS than Sotnikova), but lower TES than Yu Na in both programs was correct. How the overall results between the two would then come out is harder to say, but probably Yu Na would be barely ahead just as it was.

Personally I find it hard to choose Caro or Yuna since I am not fan of either, so whoever win is not my concern. Their SP should have been tied. But Caro's PCS in free skate should be much better than Yuna. While Yuna was kinda flat in her free skate. There are other ladies who used the same music, and they were much more lively than Yuna.
Caro was much better in free skate, in my opinion. Under the 6.0 system, Caro deserves 6.0 across board for the artistic side.

 

[Barb]

Pangtongfan, calling someone idiot and lack of intelligence does not make you look smart.

 

[anonymous penguin]

I find it funny that when Yuna's fans want fair score, it only means they want the fair score for Yuna. What about other skaters?
If they were scored truthfully, then Mao should have won the free skate. It does not mean people want her to medal. It only means it is her fair score. She should have broke the record with the free skate that night, despite not winning any medal at all. She was the one that moved people's tears that night, not Yuna or Adelina. Yes, she would not medal but she deserved the 1st place in the free skate, was that too much to ask?

Having said that, I am not Mao's fan at all.

If they were scored truthfully, then Caro or Yuna should have won overall. This is open to your debate. The scores have been crazy for 2 years, not just on Sochi, anyone who follow figure skating know this, yet you only go crazy because you think it affect your idol.

I have never stated that I only wanted fair scores for Yuna. You can check my post history if you so desire.

I too believe that Mao should have won the free skate, and with a world record score to boot. As I stated earlier, pangtongfan's rank of the free skate is more justifiable. Perhaps a medal for Mao is too much to ask, but a win in the free skate is more than fair.

I have also said that the gold medal debate should have been between Yuna and Carolina. Either would have made a great Olympic champion.

Nothing I have said disagreed too far from your viewpoint, yet you freely label someone a bot. Well done.

 

[Meoima]

I have never stated that I only wanted fair scores for Yuna. You can check my post history if you so desire.

I too believe that Mao should have won the free skate, and with a world record score to boot. As I stated earlier, pangtongfan's rank of the free skate is more justifiable. Perhaps a medal for Mao is too much to ask, but a win in the free skate is more than fair.

I have also said that the gold medal debate should have been between Yuna and Carolina. Either would have made a great Olympic champion.

Nothing I have said disagreed too far from your viewpoint, yet you freely label someone a bot. Well done.

Sorry for some misunderstanding. I agree with you.

Having said that, can you find the word "bot" in my post? Never had I used that word before.