South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

[nguyenghita]

One more example why some people quit Yuna fandom long time ago.

Who? You? Maybe you or "some people" just didn't in the fandom in the first place, lol. On the other hand, that's make no different for the whole fandom, still be the biggest fandom in the recent skating world, adding more and more new fans everyday.

 

[Meoima]

Cheating in a game of football is different. It is always on just one game not the whole campaign schemes. Usually involving the dirty world of gambling nothing more nothing less. People are always frustrated but accepted it as part of the games. England got the worst luck with Maradona's Hand of God since from the documentary I watched both Maradona and the referee admittedly acknowledge the illegitimated of that goal. Maradona admitted that he did it purposely, the referee on the other hand said he was too scare to call the hand ball.

In WC 2002 it's not just one but 4 games consecutive in the biggest sport event. I remember my dad smashed 2 remotes that WC because the cheating was so obvious. It's the game where you score more goals you win but it's funny that the referees denied your goals no matter how fair they were. In the end the referees admitted they were paid before hand. The fraud surely was bigger than that but at least the referees were not anonymous like in figure skating.
That's why I said I am against anonymous judging. Because in all circumstance, we need to know someone to blame for.

 

[cooper]

once again, there are emotions and there are facts. I would stick to the facts.

1) Overall, teams were equal and Russia lead the whole game. There were no complaints about poor calls in favor of USSR during the game. So it is in principle unfair to say that USSR cheated the victory like South Korea in 2002.
2) USSR requested the time-out in an acceptable format - then it had to be granted was there language barrier or not.
3) There was the end game signal while the ball was in the air: one can hear it for oneself. The ball had to be replayed.

These are facts - anything else is whining: "you know, Americans are way better skaters, sorry, basketball players, then they should always win, otherwise it is fraud and cheating".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taps-gallagher/stolen-glory_b_1710545.html

facts: it was a fixed game.. ussr cheated to win that gold.. ussr was given 3 chances in that dying seconds..3 chances!!!!!!!! that was blatant cheating.. of course the russians never cheated in their life..

 

[Skater Boy]

That case with some exaggeration was shown in one of few good Russian movies last year http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2182001/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2

I rewatched recently the whole series. Of course, it was not as dramatic as shown in the movie. But the Canadians were in fact much ruder than the Russians. During the canadian part the second game was the most notorious - USSR was ready to quit if the judges were not replaced. But same as with USA and basketball before 1972 no one thought that NHL players could lose in principle. Ken Driden wrote that before the series anything but 8:0 had been considered as a failure. Well, Canada lost the very first game 3:7 after leading 2:0 just 5 minutes into the game.

What does this remotely have to do with Yuna Kim and filing a complaint re 2014 winter olympics? Yuna was not even born and Russia did not exist.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

What does this remotely have to do with Yuna Kim and filing a complaint re 2014 winter olympics? Yuna was not even born and Russia did not exist.

After Sochi was called the worst sporting event one had ever seen in all of sports people begain pointing out different sporting scandals. Now were off to the races.

 

[[email protected]]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taps-gallagher/stolen-glory_b_1710545.html

facts: it was a fixed game.. ussr cheated to win that gold.. ussr was given 3 chances in that dying seconds..3 chances!!!!!!!! that was blatant cheating.. of course the russians never cheated in their life..

blah - blah - blah....

the link to the flow of conscience of some random guy who still at some point admitted "As the American team rejoiced, the head of FIBA, basketball's international ruling body, ordered that the Soviets be given a third chance to take the ball out of bounds". Never was that guy accused of being bought by "the Soviets". He started this association in 1932 and lead it almost till his death. Such a stupid thing to link that particular case to "Russian cheating". Losers will always talk about conspiracy, especially when the Cold War format helps this loser talk.

 

[[email protected]]

What does this remotely have to do with Yuna Kim and filing a complaint re 2014 winter olympics? Yuna was not even born and Russia did not exist.

Absolutely nothing. Just my 5 cents to prolong the agony of this thread: apparently there is no petition, Yuna has retired, but people keep and keep posting. We already discussed basketball in 1972. I guess, the logical step would be the football game in Moscow in 1937 when the Spanish team left the field because it was not happy with the judging.

 

[RABID]

Russians are sometimes cheated too. One of the most egregious cases was in the Canada-Russia hockey series of 1972 when Bobby Clarke deliberately nearly broke top-scorer Kharlamov's ankle, taking him out of the series. And interviews of many Canadians to this day approve Clarke's move. Clarke was not banned from hockey, as Tonya Harding was from skating, for deliberately attacking a competitor. He played for many years afterward, becoming GM of the Flyers when he retired from playing. He is currently Senior VP of the organization.

http://www.1972summitseries.com/game7recap.html

Thank you. I never got the over-sentimental, teary-eyed, nostalgia my fellow Canadians have for the thuggery displayed back then especially because we were so out-classed then.

 

[Alba]

I'll see whether I can find a link.
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...sports-network-debut-day-on-january-2/114819/

It was called "Cold War On Ice." It's on youtube.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3esWG3k_Wn8

Thank you Doris.
I have all the Summit Series from 72 and 74 but not this documentary. :agree:

 

[Ven]

Speaking of which, the New York Times has an article out this weekend that investigates match fixing in world cup soccer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/sports/soccer/fixed-matches-cast-shadow-over-world-cup.html?_r=0

There can be no doubt that the Sochi figure skating competitions were rigged in some similar way. The biggest problem for figure skating though is that the sanctioning body itself, the ISU, and by proxy the Federations in charge of the sport, are the ones rigging the results, something they feel they can get away with thanks to anonymous judging and a scoring system that most people don't understand.

In some ways it would be better for the sport of figure skating if they could just own up to the cheating, and throw out a few scapegoat villains, rather than have the entire ISU come under suspicion.

 

[Alba]

Speaking of which, the New York Times has an article out this weekend that investigates match fixing in world cup soccer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/sports/soccer/fixed-matches-cast-shadow-over-world-cup.html?_r=0

There can be no doubt that the Sochi figure skating competitions were rigged in some similar way. The biggest problem for figure skating though is that the sanctioning body itself, the ISU, and by proxy the Federations in charge of the sport, are the ones rigging the results,

It's the same thing with football. Blatter is one of the most corrupt high officials in the history of football.
Reports are coming out know that he took money from Qatar to assign them the WCl. I'm not surprised.
Ref. don't dare to fix the results on their own, especially during WC, Euros, CL etc. Their career would be finished in a second if they do that without the high officials knowing.

 

[YesWay]

there can be no doubt that the sochi figure skating competitions were rigged in some similar way.

lol

Isn't it time to move on? Or get some therapy? What is there to be said, that hasn't been said in this thread and the others, 1000 times?

Kim moved on. She moved on after 2010, pretty much. Why can't her so-called fans? Nothing is going to change Sochi, it's over, finished. Look to the future and lobby for changes in ISU, judging, scoring, whatever, if you didn't like the way it panned out.

Kim expressed a desire to join the IOC. I can't help thinking that her "fans", continuing to drone on about Sochi even now, are an embarassment to her now, and rather than helping her, they are spoiling her chances with the IOC. Does the IOC want someone who has that kind of "baggage" following behind her?

 

[Rhodium]

June 17, World Cup, Russia – S. Korea

Football is the most popular sport in Russia, everyone watch World Cup. This match is a chance for S. Koreans to revenge on cheating Russians for everything: Victor Ahn, Yuna Kim...

 

[wanpe]

revenge on cheating Russians for everything: Victor Ahn

There is nothing to do with cheating and Victor Ahn. He is just a guy who found new home. I thought Koreans were quite happy with that.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

There is nothing to do with cheating and Victor Ahn. He is just a guy who found new home. I thought Koreans were quite happy with that.

Actually Koreans were very upset about it. He was a sort of national treasure and due to politics in Korean speed skating, Ahn/An decided to go to Russia. And then given An's huge success in Sochi, that added insult to injury. As far as I know, Koreans aren't mad with him so much as the governing body of Korean speed skating.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think you can make a case for Kostner coming in first in the short program, but how do you give OGM to a skater who doesn't do a triple-triple in the long? Maybe Ashley Wagner should have gotten the bronze medal.

I think a 2A+3T is fine. After all, Kostner did 7 triples, which is a gold-worthy standard.

Certainly compared to anything Kostner had previously done it was a gold-standard.

Obviously I'd prefer a skater does a 3-3 in both programs, but Kostner showed she's capable of it in the SP. A 3T-3T isn't really a whole lot more different than a 2A-3T in terms of difficulty of execution.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I said it was the biggest I've ever seen (excluding doping). I've seen a lot of sports in say the last 20-25 years, but not all, who has?

I'd argue yes, it's the biggest, and no matter how you look at it, it's a pretty darn big deal.

And Salt Lake City? Where an actual judge admitted to fixing the results?

I guess the difference is, in Sochi no judge actually admitted to fixing the results, and even if they did (as evidence by the scores), they're not a pivotal vote in a 5-4 split as it was under 6.0.

I'm pretty sure you could tell a casual skating fan that Sotnikova did 7 triples (even with a stepout on a double) to Yu Na's 6, and they would accept Sotnikova's win. For Ber/Sikh, though, it's a little harder to justify that a program with a stepout beating a clean program by S/P.

A lot of my coworkers were wondering why Abbott didn't medal in Sochi, since his individual FS was clean (even without a quad), versus Hanyu's 2-falls and Chan's 4 errors.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

In some ways it would be better for the sport of figure skating if they could just own up to the cheating, and throw out a few scapegoat villains, rather than have the entire ISU come under suspicion.

There was no cheating so there was nothing to "own up" to. The ISU, or the judges, or insiders at the federations, are all in a position to bring up cheating if it happened, and no one has. This is what is so frustrating for Yuna fans, that an objective judging panel found that she wasn't the best with her reserved program that night. If you live in South Korea, or perhaps Southern California, and you talk to people everyone agrees that it is impossible for a panel to not agree that Yuna won, but outside of those communities, where fans are more objective, people see that it could have gone in favor of any of the top 3.

 

[Sandpiper]

For Ber/Sikh, though, it's a little harder to justify that a program with a stepout beating a clean program by S/P.

But now, twelve years later, I think most people believe B/S skated better than S/P and were the deserving gold medallists of the event... The problem is, of course, that the French judge admitted to cheating. But looking at what those two teams put on the ice, it should've been a mildly debatable result like Tara vs. Michelle in Nagano, not some gigantic brouhaha that brought down an entire judging system. B/S admittedly didn't help themselves with their frequent meltdowns (winning silver in Nagano with a fall in each program, winning over clean Shen/Zhao with a fall...). But it seems like they're nonetheless considered one the greatest pairs in the sport. Sale/Pelletier? Er...

Sorry, this has nothing to do with Yuna or Korea.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh, I also agree B/S skated better overall. But with a visible error, it makes sense why people were outraged that S/P lost to them initially. And both teams were essentially seen as on par with each other -- i.e. if one made a mistake and the other went clean, the victory would go to the clean team. That's why it was such a scandal... just like people assumed that if Kim/Kostner went clean, she would get the victory over any Russian who went clean or close to clean.

The point is, people assume that a superior skater if they do their program cleanly (even if it's not as difficult as other skaters) should win. But that's not always the case. Before this season, I think people would have been crazy if they thought a clean Kostner (as rare as that was) would be placed behind a clean Lipnitskaia or Sotnikova.